Jason Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-reportedly-is-joking-about-pulling-the-us-out-of-nato-2018-6?utm_source=reddit.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 whatever The United States is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamusha Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 The conservatives who I know that reluctantly voted for Trump were hoping that everything was going to snap back to normal after he left office. Unfortunately there will be no going back. He may end up being the most consequential president in a long time when all is said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Wasn't there an old interview from the 80's or 90's where Trump said he thought we should ditch all our other allies and align with Russia because Russia and America are all you need? It looks like he might be making good on that plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 28, 2018 Author Share Posted June 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Komusha said: The conservatives who I know that reluctantly voted for Trump were hoping that everything was going to snap back to normal after he left office. Unfortunately there will be no going back. He may end up being the most consequential president in a long time when all is said and done. Yup. And he's having an in-person performance review with Putin on July 16. That's when we're gonna leave NATO isn't it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I feel like with every new story Trump is making the founding fathers look like real idiots? Really, the executive has the power to make this kind of decision unilaterally? Was it really a good idea to make the foundation of our legal system dependent on when a few old folks either die in office or get close to it? Is this really a system of checks and balances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 32 minutes ago, TwinIon said: I feel like with every new story Trump is making the founding fathers look like real idiots? I could've told you this several years ago if you'd asked 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 14 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: I could've told you this several years ago if you'd asked Yeah, but several years ago things were going ok and it seemed like more of a "maybe this isn't the best way for things to work" kinda deal. Not the "OMFG, who the hell thought this was a good idea?!" is is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach250 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 olol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 Here's the thing: There's spending money to be able to defend yourself, and there's spending enough money to be able to project your imperial power over the world. Most other countries don't need to spend that kind of money. Now, some countries in Europe should probably start beefing up their militaries at this point to counter Russian ambition, but some others probably don't need to. Even if NATO countries all boosted their spending to an arbitrary % amount of their GDPs, Trump would then flip to comparing the absolute numbers and complain that the Netherlands is only spending .5% as much as the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Here's the thing: There's spending money to be able to defend yourself, and there's spending enough money to be able to project your imperial power over the world. Most other countries don't need to spend that kind of money. Now, some countries in Europe should probably start beefing up their militaries at this point to counter Russian ambition, but some others probably don't need to. I do think Germany is legit freeloading on not just the US but NATO as a whole. The US could definitely afford to spend less than we do but it's still obnoxious to see Germans lecturing us about our spending priorities being out of whack and how their system is so much better when part of the way they afford their system is by letting other countries pay to defend them. And to whatever extent Canada can be argued to be freeloading...I mean, you just have to look at a map to understand why that's simply not as a big of a deal as Germany doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 19 hours ago, Jason said: I do think Germany is legit freeloading on not just the US but NATO as a whole. The US could definitely afford to spend less than we do but it's still obnoxious to see Germans lecturing us about our spending priorities being out of whack and how their system is so much better when part of the way they afford their system is by letting other countries pay to defend them. And to whatever extent Canada can be argued to be freeloading...I mean, you just have to look at a map to understand why that's simply not as a big of a deal as Germany doing it. From my understanding though NATO allies pay proportionally respective to their GDP's, correct? Are any actually in debt to us over that? Are some not contributing proportionally to us but relative to their GDP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said: From my understanding though NATO allies pay proportionally respective to their GDP's, correct? Are any actually in debt to us over that? Are some not contributing proportionally to us but relative to their GDP? There's a 2% of GDP target that only 5 NATO countries are hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Jason said: There's a 2% of GDP target that only 5 NATO countries are hitting. Link? Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see who is and isn't hitting the 2% target and how much less than the 2% target each are actually contributing. If all true, then I do agree that everyone should pay, but Trump is trying to get NATO allies to do that in the worst ways possible. Bigliest negotiator eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 3, 2018 Author Share Posted July 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Link? Just out of curiosity, I'd like to see who is and isn't hitting the 2% target and how much less than the 2% target each are actually contributing. If all true, then I do agree that everyone should pay, but Trump is trying to get NATO allies to do that in the worst ways possible. Bigliest negotiator eh? Read this: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/world/europe/nato-trump-spending.html As they discuss, Trump isn't the first one to be concerned about it, Trump is just handling it the worst way possible (of course). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 The GDP thing is kinda silly, while Germany is spending like half of what its supposed to, its still 4th in overall military spending, while a country like Greece is hitting its requirement but is spending a fraction of what Germany is spending, and is still below Germany's per capita spending. Its not crazy to ask Germany to spend more seeing they're one of the larger NATO nations, but its insane to threaten to abandon all of them if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: The GDP thing is kinda silly, while Germany is spending like half of what its supposed to, its still 4th in overall military spending, while a country like Greece is hitting its requirement but is spending a fraction of what Germany is spending, and is still below Germany's per capita spending. Its not crazy to ask Germany to spend more seeing they're one of the larger NATO nations, but its insane to threaten to abandon all of them if they don't. Well... That said, the German military is in pretty rough shape in terms of readiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 I honestly don't think it matters how much NATO members spend, unless one of them ramps up spending into the hundreds of billions a year, otherwise i just can't imagine a scenario where it works without the US spearheading the whole thing. By the time article 5 is declared and agreed upon whoever declared the article 5 would be toast let alone mobilization of multiple European militaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Quote When German Chancellor Angela Merkel made her first visit to meet with President Donald Trump shortly after his inauguration, she was greeted with an unexpected accusation, The Wall Street Journal reported Sunday.' “You owe me one trillion dollars,” Trump reportedly told her, according to an official briefed on the session who spoke with the Journal. Trump was reportedly referencing what he estimated as the gap between the amount of money Germany was supposed to spend on its own defense under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) over the past 14 years, and what it’s actually paid for. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/trump-merkel-owe-me-one-trillion-dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 All of this could have been avoided if NATO had not expanded into the former Warsaw Pact states in the 1990s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleronin Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Knowing Trump, he wants the check for the trillion dollar made out to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 It's mutual defense you dumb fuck. See Afghanistan as an example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 He wants to sell more agriculture to Europe? Doesnt he know our produce tastes like garbage? Give an Italian or a Spaniard a tasteless American tomato and they will throw it back in your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 McConnell says not worried about Trump withdrawing U.S. from NATO Presently the entirety of the article: Quote The top Republican in the U.S. Senate, Mitch McConnell, on Wednesday said he was not worried that President Donald Trump will withdraw the country from NATO, as Trump, who has a history of fiercely criticizing and occasionally scrapping international agreements, traveled to a major summit of NATO members. McConnell also said “there is nothing inherently wrong” about Trump meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin while he is in Europe. The two leaders plan to meet alone, without any extra staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 "And even if he did withdraw, Obama already did it before, and the Democrats are making him do it now." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Hey. WWII was from the middle innings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 They really mean business with that non-binding motion of support for NATO GUYS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 "Hey daddy, you have to help my guys win the midterm!" "Vhat, are Hillary memes not doing enuv for you?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 23 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: They really mean business with that non-binding motion of support for NATO GUYS! Rand hates NATO cause they won't protect him from his neighbors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted July 11, 2018 Share Posted July 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said: Rand hates NATO cause they won't protect him from his neighbors. And Mike Lee is just a cunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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