General Gaming Riot Being Sued For Gender Discrimination

[SimpleG]

https://kotaku.com/current-and-former-employees-sue-riot-games-for-gender-1830262786

 

"The lawsuit includes details previously unknown to Kotaku as well, like Negron’s claim that in just one month, she counted that her male colleagues at Riot used the word “dick” over 500 times. The lawsuit also says Negron’s third supervisor had told her that “diversity should not be a focal point of the design of Riot Games’ products because gaming culture is the last remaining safe haven for white teen boys.”

[crispy4000]

5 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

https://kotaku.com/current-and-former-employees-sue-riot-games-for-gender-1830262786

 

"The lawsuit includes details previously unknown to Kotaku as well, like Negron’s claim that in just one month, she counted that her male colleagues at Riot used the word “dick” over 500 times. The lawsuit also says Negron’s third supervisor had told her that “diversity should not be a focal point of the design of Riot Games’ products because gaming culture is the last remaining safe haven for white teen boys.”

 

That number means very little without proper context.  There's a world of different scenarios it could be used.  Hopefully she kept track of those.

[Amazatron]

Good, that place and its gaming community is toxic as fuck.

[TwinIon]

27 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

“diversity should not be a focal point of the design of Riot Games’ products because gaming culture is the last remaining safe haven for white teen boys.”

I'm no longer a teen, but I feel like there are still a few predominantly white hobbies left for boys, if you feel it's important to separate the races.

 

Even setting aside the racism, it seems counter to the whole idea of selling games.

[Paperclyp]

20 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

That number means very little without proper context.  There's a world of different scenarios it could be used.  Hopefully she kept track of those.

 

What are some examples of dick used in appropriate context in an office setting lol?

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Paperclyp said:

office setting lol?

is it really tho

[Paperclyp]

1 minute ago, Bacon said:

is it really tho

Work setting. Yes. 

 

But still waiting to hear some appropriate examples. 

[Bacon]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

Work setting. Yes. 

 

But still waiting to hear some appropriate examples. 

I mean, do they have to follow the standard office rules? Cursing and Swearing ain't shit. Like, as long as it isn't targeted at anyone, who cares?

[Paperclyp]

Just now, Bacon said:

I mean, do they have to follow the standard office rules? Cursing and Swearing ain't shit. Like, as long as it isn't targeted at anyone, who cares?

If it is making the employees uncomfortable, they care? 

 

This doesn’t sound like an isolated case from an irrational employee. It seems to be a pattern. Odd that people jump to defend the company. 

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Paperclyp said:

If it is making the employees uncomfortable, they care? 

 

This doesn’t sound like an isolated case from an irrational employee. It seems to be a pattern. Odd that people jump to defend the company. 

If saying the word "dick" is enough to make someone uncomfortable then fuck'em. As long as people aren't getting harassed then it shouldn't matter. I am not defending Riot on the other shit, just that "dick" or other vulgarities shouldn't be an issue. Personal attacks are different, but "yeah, that guy's a dick," isn't something to get offended by unless you're the dick. There is no elaboration or greater context, just that they said dick 500 times. 

 

If this quoted text in the OP was this " The 2,500-employee games company, which is 80% male, regularly turned down female applicants for not fitting the company’s image of “core gamers,” sources said," then I wouldn't be "defending" them. I am not defending Riot anyway, I am defending the use of bad words. Fuck is like one of my most used words. And dick is a very tame bad word.  Without knowing how it was used it means nothing. Like, I wonder how many times fuck was said in that month. 

[Paperclyp]

1 minute ago, Bacon said:

If saying the word "dick" is enough to make someone uncomfortable then fuck'em. As long as people aren't getting harassed then it shouldn't matter. I am not defending Riot on the other shit, just that "dick" or other vulgarities shouldn't be an issue. Personal attacks are different, but "yeah, that guy's a dick," isn't something to get offended by unless you're the dick. There is no elaboration or greater context, just that they said dick 500 times. 

 

If this quoted text in the OP was this " The 2,500-employee games company, which is 80% male, regularly turned down female applicants for not fitting the company’s image of “core gamers,” sources said," then I wouldn't be "defending" them. I am not defending Riot anyway, I am defending the use of bad words. Fuck is like one of my most used words. And dick is a very tame bad word.  Without knowing how it was used it means nothing. Like, I wonder how many times fuck was said in that month. 

 

I think you and I possibly disagree fundamentally on a great deal of things. 

[Bacon]

Just now, Paperclyp said:

 

I think you and I possibly disagree fundamentally on a great deal of things. 

Probably. I grew up watching Rugrats by day and South Park by night. Vulgarities are hardly vulgar. 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

 

What are some examples of dick used in appropriate context in an office setting lol?

Dick is a nickname for Richard.  For starters.

Or even, "Hey those dicks at [moba company x] copied our character concept."  "We really don't want our eSports players to act like dicks to each other."  It's really not that hard to think of examples.

[darkness35]

I mean.. at least no one is calling her a pussy.

[Keyser_Soze]

Yeah maybe Dick worked in the office.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

9 hours ago, TwinIon said:

I'm no longer a teen, but I feel like there are still a few predominantly white hobbies left for boys, if you feel it's important to separate the races.

Right? Like is hockey not still a thing?

[XxEvil AshxX]

12 hours ago, Bacon said:

Probably. I grew up watching Rugrats by day and South Park by night. Vulgarities are hardly vulgar. 

I grew up on Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, and Def Comedy Jam. Your examples humor me.

 

That said Pryor and Murphy didn't emphasize their cursing. After five minutes you kinda forgot they were doing it. It was just dialog. Or maybe we just didnt have our panties in a knot in the 80's.

[Keyser_Soze]

Since when was Rugrats vulgar? If anything it was one of the tamer nicktoons next to Doug. If you want something vulgar go with Ren & Stimpy, Rocko's Modern Life or Ahhh! Real Monsters.

[BuckFly]

14 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

 

What are some examples of dick used in appropriate context in an office setting lol?

 

 

"We pre-dick our game is going to sell a lot of copies during the Holiday season."

 

"Mikey, get in here, I have to dick-tate a letter to you."

 

 

 

...yeah, Clyp, they probably don't have anything better than I do.

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, BuckFly said:

 

 

"We pre-dick our game is going to sell a lot of copies during the Holiday season."

 

"Mikey, get in here, I have to dick-tate a letter to you."

 

 

 

...yeah, Clyp, they probably don't have anything better than I do.

 

Care for some spotted dick?

[Paperclyp]

11 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Dick is a nickname for Richard.  For starters.

Or even, "Hey those dicks at [moba company x] copied our character concept."  "We really don't want our eSports players to act like dicks to each other."  It's really not that hard to think of examples.

If that is all that was occurring, I’m not like blown away that someone would think that’s fine. It crosses a line when if it is that subdued and she or another employee voices her issues with that language and they continue to do it. 

 

But this is really just a red herring, focusing on a single detail and trying to discredit it when there is a culture of this apparently going on. It’s irresponsible to turn it into a “people are too sensitive nowadays” discussion. 

[crispy4000]

I'm not making it a red herring.  The documented culture of sexism at Riot is clear enough.  No one is arguing otherwise.

I only singled it out because, to me, that particular bit deserves more scrutiny before being thrown in with the rest of the pile.  It's a dumb bullet point without context.

[XxEvil AshxX]

They should've used "penis" instead. It wouldn't have been as offensive.

[nublood]

18 hours ago, SimpleG said:

https://kotaku.com/current-and-former-employees-sue-riot-games-for-gender-1830262786

 

"The lawsuit includes details previously unknown to Kotaku as well, like Negron’s claim that in just one month, she counted that her male colleagues at Riot used the word “dick” over 500 times. The lawsuit also says Negron’s third supervisor had told her that “diversity should not be a focal point of the design of Riot Games’ products because gaming culture is the last remaining safe haven for white teen boys.”

 

If you don't like "the culture" of gaming and it's demographic, perhaps you should try a different career.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, nublood said:

 

If you don't like "the culture" of gaming and it's demographic, perhaps you should try a different career.

Or they could work towards making it more inclusive and by extension, monetarily remunerative.  Just throwing that out there as a thought!

[Kal-El814]

12 minutes ago, nublood said:

If you don't like "the culture" of gaming and it's demographic, perhaps you should try a different career.

OLO

[nublood]

12 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Or they could work towards making it more inclusive and by extension, monetarily remunerative.  Just a thought!

Oh it's a money thing, gotcha. And I guess these same women, given their standards, have no problem with how women are depicted in League of Legends. Better put pantsuits on everybody as to not get the "teenage boys" accidentally aroused. lol

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

6 minutes ago, nublood said:

Oh it's a money thing, gotcha. And I guess these same women, given their standards, have no problem with how women are depicted in League of Legends?

Completely and totally irrelevant to the context of what I'm referring to which is expanding the potential player base and therefore revenue opportunities beyond white teen boys with characters that can appeal to other demographics.

[nublood]

19 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Completely and totally irrelevant to the context of what I'm referring to which is expanding the potential player base and therefore revenue opportunities beyond white teen boys with characters that can appeal to other demographics.

Meh. It sounds to me like these particular women are working for the wrong studio. There are plenty of gaming companies where women thrive now days like Bioware, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. I honestly think the real issue here is the pay gap (which I agree is a legitimate issue), and not the "offensive" language.

[Moa]

1 hour ago, nublood said:

Meh. It sounds to me like these particular women are working for the wrong studio. There are plenty of gaming companies where women thrive now days like Bioware, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. I honestly think the real issue here is the pay gap (which I agree is a legitimate issue), and not the "offensive" language.

If even your perception is that they are working for the wrong studio because they are women, then I suspect that the gender discrimination case is very valid. 

[Paperclyp]

3 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

I'm not making it a red herring.  The documented culture of sexism at Riot is clear enough.  No one is arguing otherwise.

I only singled it out because, to me, that particular bit deserves more scrutiny before being thrown in with the rest of the pile.

I just don’t think it’s particularly productive to scrutinize that particular part I guess. It give people like nublood perceived ammunition to discount the entire situation as much ado about nothing. You say no one is arguing otherwise, but it seems at least one person is for sure here, and perhaps a few others implying that they feel the same. Just my two cents. 

[Paperclyp]

Also I’m not entirely on board with the idea that it’s just A-OK to speak like that in a work place. If I’m speaking to a work friend who I know is comfortable with that language that’s cool, but in general with co-workers who are just that, I don’t necessarily think it’s appropriate, especially when there are people who might not like it. 

 

It’s not a ton of effort to make the work environment a little more comfortable for everyone who works there, not just what you deem what should and should not offend people. 

[Raggit]

2 hours ago, nublood said:

Meh. It sounds to me like these particular women are working for the wrong studio. There are plenty of gaming companies where women thrive now days like Bioware, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. I honestly think the real issue here is the pay gap (which I agree is a legitimate issue), and not the "offensive" language.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, nublood said:

And I guess these same women, given their standards, have no problem with how women are depicted in League of Legends. Better put pantsuits on everybody as to not get the "teenage boys" accidentally aroused. lol

 

Spoken like someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.

[crispy4000]

6 hours ago, Paperclyp said:

I just don’t think it’s particularly productive to scrutinize that particular part I guess. It give people like nublood perceived ammunition to discount the entire situation as much ado about nothing. You say no one is arguing otherwise, but it seems at least one person is for sure here, and perhaps a few others implying that they feel the same. Just my two cents. 

nublood is the only one who went there.  It's entirely on him, not me, for taking the plunge.  Judging by the responses, it sorted itself out.

 

Bacon clearly specified his focus wasn't on the Riot scandal as a whole:

 

On 11/6/2018 at 7:56 PM, Bacon said:

If this quoted text in the OP was this " The 2,500-employee games company, which is 80% male, regularly turned down female applicants for not fitting the company’s image of “core gamers,” sources said," then I wouldn't be "defending" them. I am not defending Riot anyway, I am defending the use of bad words.

 

... Sure, there seems to be a few who would side with Bacon's perspective more than yours.  I'm somewhere in the middle personally.  But we shouldn't need to walk on eggshells here just to keep the boogieman away (staunch Riot-defenders).  That's being obtuse.