BuckFly Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I believe Ruth is doing everything that she can to try and make it for another 2 plus years. Otherwise, this really could end up being the Trump court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 The media continues its slide back into false equivilence and chasing shiny objects. For a while they seemed to be holding Trump's feet to the fire, but in the past few months they have become a textbook case on the danger of allowing Trump to be normalized so that what he does is just one side of the political spectrum. I am referring to their near complete buy-in to Trump's SCOTUS rose ceremony. They are chasing Trump's shiny, "oh, who will he pick?!" object instead of laying out the real story. Old, white, straight man to choose one other old, white, straight man to take away women's right to bodily autonomy and gays rights to exist at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: The media continues its slide back into false equivilence and chasing shiny objects. For a while they seemed to be holding Trump's feet to the fire, but in the past few months they have become a textbook case on the danger of allowing Trump to be normalized so that what he does is just one side of the political spectrum. I am referring to their near complete buy-in to Trump's SCOTUS rose ceremony. They are chasing Trump's shiny, "oh, who will he pick?!" object instead of laying out the real story. Old, white, straight man to choose one other old, white, straight man to take away women's right to bodily autonomy and gays rights to exist at all. And guy under criminal investigation likely to pick the key vote in letting him off the hook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jason said: And guy under criminal investigation likely to pick the key vote in letting him off the hook. Thanks. I was only banging my head on my desk hard enough to cause pain. I'll upgrade to concussion velocity. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: The media continues its slide back into false equivilence and chasing shiny objects. For a while they seemed to be holding Trump's feet to the fire, but in the past few months they have become a textbook case on the danger of allowing Trump to be normalized so that what he does is just one side of the political spectrum. I am referring to their near complete buy-in to Trump's SCOTUS rose ceremony. They are chasing Trump's shiny, "oh, who will he pick?!" object instead of laying out the real story. Old, white, straight man to choose one other old, white, straight man to take away women's right to bodily autonomy and gays rights to exist at all. What does being "old,white, straight" have to do with anything. This Identity politics crap needs to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said: What does being "old,white, straight" have to do with anything. This Identity politics crap needs to die. I think there are times when identity politics is overused on the left, but not in this case. When you are ruling on weighing the rights of a woman to have bodily autonomy vs. the rights of a fetus or the rights of gays to be treated without prejudice vs. Christian beliefs you're identity weights on that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: I think there are times when identity politics is overused on the left, but not in this case. When you are ruling on weighing the rights of a woman to have bodily autonomy vs. the rights of a fetus or the rights of gays to be treated without prejudice vs. Christian beliefs you're identity weights on that decision. being white, a man and straight doesn't preclude you to any specific set of beliefs. The only thing that does, in that list, is "christian" beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: I think there are times when identity politics is overused on the left, but not in this case. When you are ruling on weighing the rights of a woman to have bodily autonomy vs. the rights of a fetus or the rights of gays to be treated without prejudice vs. Christian beliefs you're identity weights on that decision. So only gay women should be allowed on the Supreme Court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 21 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said: being white, a man and straight doesn't preclude you to any specific set of beliefs. The only thing that does, in that list, is "christian" beliefs. That is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that in the rulings that I have seen SCOTUS make, a diversity of identity is a good thing. For instance, when they struck down parts of the Voting Rights Act that dealt with Southern States with a long history of racism requiring approval, part of their reasoning was literally that racism wasn't a thing anymore. It didn't preclude 4 liberals from dissenting, or Thomas from going with the majority for that matter, but if your ruling is based on what things are like for a certain group on the ground, it helps if someone in the room has lived that experience. Just now, Dodger said: So only gay women should be allowed on the Supreme Court? I dunno, maybe after we've tried it for 200 years to even out the time white men have had a majority of the court we can reconvene and compare notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Good jurisprudence matters most, and I don’t think race/ethnicity/age/gender has any obvious role in that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 23 minutes ago, Chairslinger said: That is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that in the rulings that I have seen SCOTUS make, a diversity of identity is a good thing. For instance, when they struck down parts of the Voting Rights Act that dealt with Southern States with a long history of racism requiring approval, part of their reasoning was literally that racism wasn't a thing anymore. It didn't preclude 4 liberals from dissenting, or Thomas from going with the majority for that matter, but if your ruling is based on what things are like for a certain group on the ground, it helps if someone in the room has lived that experience. I dunno, maybe after we've tried it for 200 years to even out the time white men have had a majority of the court we can reconvene and compare notes. diversity of identity has absolutely nothing to do with ideology. Your last sentence is very troubling to say the least. That is pure ignorance. 8 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Good jurisprudence matters most, and I don’t think race/ethnicity/age/gender has any obvious role in that. This right here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyle5150 said: being white, a man and straight doesn't preclude you to any specific set of beliefs. The only thing that does, in that list, is "christian" beliefs. You take old white men off the voter rolls for the the last election, and the results are probably different. You take old white men out of the SCOTUS and their decisions are likely different. Any seat of power in western society has been held by "old white men" for the majority of the past 300 or so odd years. I don't really see why it's so outrageous to acknowledge either of those two facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 57 minutes ago, Dodger said: So only gay women should be allowed on the Supreme Court? No, but something besides straight white men would be nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, SilentWorld said: You take old white men off the voter rolls for the the last election, and the results are probably different. You take old white men out of the SCOTUS and their decisions are likely different. Any seat of power in western society has been held by "old white men" for the majority of the past 300 or so odd years. I don't really see why it's so outrageous to acknowledge either of those two facts. because being old and white has nothing to do with ideology. You can make the case that there are more older white men who voted for trump but that is not because they are old and white. To say otherwise is ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Jose said: No, but something besides straight white men would be nice! thats just racist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Boyle5150 said: thats just racist Yeah it's pretty racist to have vast majority white men. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Jose said: Yeah it's pretty racist to have vast majority white men. I agree. Jesus fucking christ, this is some ignorant thinking. Skin color and sex have nothing to do with it. Fuck! When did the left become so racist and sexist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Here, we need more of this because he's not white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said: because being old and white has nothing to do with ideology. You can make the case that there are more older white men who voted for trump but that is not because they are old and white. To say otherwise is ignorant. On an individual basis, literally no identity has anything to do with ideology. Whether we're talking about gender, race, religion, or nationality, I'm sure you could find any and every ideology represented. So this is a poor argument. Nobody is, say, liberal because they are Catholic (after all, I'm sure you can find communist Catholics), nor is anyone communist because they are Hindu (since I'm sure you can find liberal Hindus). We can still find patterns. When a certain identity is over-represented historically, that make a huge difference on the way society develops. "To say otherwise is ignorant." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Skin color and sex have everything to do with it! SCOTUS should more closely resemble our population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said: Jesus fucking christ, this is some ignorant thinking. Skin color and sex have nothing to do with it. Fuck! When did the left become so racist and sexist? Saying that it's a problem that the majority of the people in power historically have been, and continue to be, white men, is like the opposite of racism. Lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 All politics is inherently based on "identity". To suggest otherwise is incredibly naive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said: All politics is inherently based on "identity". To suggest otherwise is incredibly naive. All of our viewpoints have been shaped by our identity in some way. Some just do not realize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, SilentWorld said: On an individual basis, literally no identity has anything to do with ideology. Whether we're talking about gender, race, religion, or nationality, I'm sure you could find any and every ideology represented. So this is a poor argument. Nobody is, say, liberal because they are Catholic (after all, I'm sure you can find communist Catholics), nor is anyone communist because they are Hindu (since I'm sure you can find liberal Hindus). So this is a poor argument. I agree with all of this and have not said otherwise. 4 minutes ago, SilentWorld said: . We can still find patterns. And when a certain identity is over-represented historically, that make a huge difference on the way society develops. "To say otherwise is ignorant." I don't think you really want to go down this path... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: All politics is inherently based on "identity". To suggest otherwise is incredibly naive. of course it is, but our goal is to not, and you don't achieve this goal by continuing to discriminate based on identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, SilentWorld said: Saying that it's a problem that the majority of the people in power historically have been, and continue to be, white men, is like the opposite of racism. Lol. are you drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Boyle5150 said: of course it is, but our goal is to not. this is like peak white liberalism lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said: of course it is, but our goal is to not, and you don't achieve this goal by continuing to discriminate based on identity. What goal would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, SilentWorld said: this is like peak white liberalism lol thinking otherwise is peak black liberalism?? Are you fucking drunk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 I do really hope it's Hardiman at least. He has the greatest chance of turning into a Souter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, SFLUFAN said: What goal would that be? One can only dream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Boyle5150 said: are you drunk? i don't even understand what your disagreement is right now? Are you saying that the majority of people in power in the USA were not white men historically? Or that the majority of people in power currently are not white men? Or that it's not a problem that the majority of people in power are white men? Or you think that none of that is a problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, Boyle5150 said: One can only dream! My goal is quite simply this: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyle5150 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Just now, SilentWorld said: i don't even understand what your disagreement is right now? Are you saying that the majority of people in power in the USA were not white men historically? Or that the majority of people in power currently are not white men? Or that it's not a problem that the majority of people in power are white men? Or you think that none of that is a problem? The problem is not that the majority in power are white men. The color of their skin is not the problem, their ideology is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, SilentWorld said: i don't even understand what your disagreement is right now? Are you saying that the majority of people in power in the USA were not white men historically? Or that the majority of people in power currently are not white men? Or that it's not a problem that the majority of people in power are white men? Or you think that none of that is a problem? I wouldn’t worry much about it, pretty sure he is drunk and looking for a drinking buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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