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SFLUFAN

Extensive BBC report on China's internment camps for Muslim Uighurs, including satellite photos of camp size expansion

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I think this is just what the world needs in 2018, major Islamophobia from China giving rise to potential attacks by Islamists in China. 

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On 10/24/2018 at 7:11 AM, Comet said:

I think this is just what the world needs in 2018, major Islamophobia from China giving rise to potential attacks by Islamists in China. 

 

What does terrorism in China achieve? They don't have any freedoms to take away.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-denies-having-concentration-camps-tells-us-to-stop-interfering/ar-AAAZuhw?ocid=AMZN

Quote

US Assistant Secretary of Defense Randall Schriver first made the remarks during a press briefing on Friday, saying as many as three million Muslim-majority Uyghur people may be held inside the massive Chinese government camps.

"The Communist Party is using the security forces for mass imprisonment of Chinese Muslims in concentration camps," Schriver said. The disputed term is closely associated with the death camps of 1940s Nazi Germany, where up to six million people lost their lives.

In recent years, the government has detained large numbers of Uyghurs in what former detainees describe as re-education centers with prison-like conditions, aimed at eradicating Uyghur cultural and religious practices and instilling Communist Party propaganda—a practice described by one as "cultural genocide."

However, Beijing has repeatedly denied the Uyghur citizens are being held in such large numbers and against their will, calling the camps instead "vocational education training centers."

 

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Once Maoists, always Maoists I guess.

 

 

 

I'll just count down when China gets nuked by one of their Islamic neighbors

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2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

 

This raises some interesting implications. Based on various Islamic doctrines, once a parcel of land becomes owned and operated by Muslims, it is always and forever Allah's land, never to be mistreated and always to be used in a productive manner (e.g. worship). European and American politicians should be paying very close attention to what goes on here.

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9 minutes ago, Man of Culture said:

 

European and American politicians should be paying very close attention to what goes on here.

They won't.

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2 hours ago, darkness35 said:

Once Maoists, always Maoists I guess.

 

 

 

I'll just count down when China gets nuked by one of their Islamic neighbors

Nuclear wars are easy to win. 

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2 hours ago, Man of Culture said:

What is interesting is how surprised some people are over this. The writing has been on the wall for the better part of 10 years. 

 

https://ctc.usma.edu/uighur-dissent-and-militancy-in-chinas-xinjiang-province/

I don't think it's surprising that it's happening, but the relatively recent increase in the scale is what is most shocking. 

 

chart-security_facilities2-c4u91-nc_7smw

 

 

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3 hours ago, Man of Culture said:

 

This raises some interesting implications. Based on various Islamic doctrines, once a parcel of land becomes owned and operated by Muslims, it is always and forever Allah's land, never to be mistreated and always to be used in a productive manner (e.g. worship). European and American politicians should be paying very close attention to what goes on here.

I would say this goes beyond narrow religious doctrines; there are more universal psychological forces at work.  Humans have not historically responded well to totalitarian destruction of what they consider to be communal space by state or state-like organs, regardless of the religion or culture they belong to.  I'm pretty sure if a town full of secularists had one of its biggest community centers (call it the local 'YMSA', where everyone takes their kids to participate in community activities or just go swimming) unilaterally destroyed by their national government, without being consulted or having any say in the matter, they would likely be upset.

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37 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

I would say this goes beyond narrow religious doctrines; there are more universal psychological forces at work.  Humans have not historically responded well to totalitarian destruction of what they consider to be communal space by state or state-like organs, regardless of the religion or culture they belong to.  I'm pretty sure if a town full of secularists had one of its biggest community centers (call it the local 'YMSA', where everyone takes their kids to participate in community activities or just go swimming) unilaterally destroyed by their national government, without being consulted or having any say in the matter, they would likely be upset.

 

Sure, I don't think anyone is discounting that. Islam is an extra layer on top of that and allows for generations of grievance seeking where other nations/groups of people would eventually cool down. I would suggest reading this paper on the subject:

 

Land ownership from the Islamic Perspective

 

You can see the difference in these two articles 

 

Mexican President seeks apology from Spain for the conquest of Mexico.

 

Muslim leaders want Spain to apologize for reconquista

 

I can guarantee you that middle eastern muslims would positively endorse what their leaders are seeking, meanwhile, the Mexican population is denouncing their own president's demands because they realize how stupid they are. The only difference here is one group has religious authority and the other does not.

 

 

Edit: the fact that this is currently happening in modernity with a multitude of attacks and counter attacks by jihadists and white terrorists, it makes for an interesting scenario when the Uyghers decide to fight back. Will they seek an apology? Financial recompense? Or will they become sufficiently radicalized to consider suicide bombings and other forms of retaliation? And when will that retaliation stop? Until they get their land back? Until the Chinese stop trying to "reeducate" them?  Will it become global? Will it stop or will it be remembered and used as excuses for further attacks 100 years from now after we've all been long dead and buried?

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A few commentators and one senator from a minority party dont represent "the Mexican population." Stop the bs.

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3 hours ago, Jose said:

A few commentators and one senator from a minority party dont represent "the Mexican population." Stop the bs.

 

You fundamentally misunderstand the point and parallel being drawn here. When a president from a non-muslim country like Mexico demands an apology or reparations, he's signaling to his constituents that he's looking out for his people and wants to build up their identity as proud Mexicans worthy of an apology for the wrong that was done to them by people who've long been dead by a nation that hasn't existed the way it used to for over a hundred years now. He's a yappy dog that's all bark and zero bite that nobody in their right mind would take seriously.

 

When fundamentalist, Islamist and Jihadist Muslims (of which there are an innumerable amount) demand an apology or reparations, it is backed by their religion. They have religious authority to seek out and gain that apology or recompense by whatever means they have at their disposal, as to not do so is seen as an affront to Allah. Every second that Spain exists outside of Muslim control and influence is an affront to Allah and so it is seen as a good thing, a worthwhile and totally not ridiculous goal to seek an apology and recompense for Reconquista. Now we haven't had anything of this nature happen in a long time (e.g. Chinese razing Muslim temples, taking Muslim land, "reeducating the Islam out of Muslims) and that makes for an interesting scenario that could have far reaching implications, both for the Chinese and for nations who know about what is going on and who are doing nothing to stop it. 

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What country is out there today that could pull weight on China and stand against locking up brown people.

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@Lucian

 

I was taking issue with you declaring that the Mexican population rejected AMLO's proposal with next to 0 evidence, while also saying that Muslim leaders would definitely endorse what a Muslim community leader (not even an Imam lol) in Seville has to say (again, 0 evidence provided). It's just a whole lot of conjecture on your part brochacho.

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7 minutes ago, Rodimus said:

What country is out there today that could pull weight on China and stand against locking up brown people.

USA

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3 minutes ago, Jose said:

@Lucian

 

I was taking issue with you declaring that the Mexican population rejected AMLO's proposal with next to 0 evidence, while also saying that Muslim leaders would definitely endorse what a Muslim community leader (not even an Imam lol) in Seville has to say (again, 0 evidence provided). It's just a whole lot of conjecture on your part brochacho.

 

All this tells me is that you don't pay attention to anything outside of your pet issues.

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46 minutes ago, Man of Culture said:

 

Sure, I don't think anyone is discounting that. Islam is an extra layer on top of that and allows for generations of grievance seeking where other nations/groups of people would eventually cool down. I would suggest reading this paper on the subject:

 

Land ownership from the Islamic Perspective

 

You can see the difference in these two articles 

 

Mexican President seeks apology from Spain for the conquest of Mexico.

 

Muslim leaders want Spain to apologize for reconquista

 

I can guarantee you that middle eastern muslims would positively endorse what their leaders are seeking, meanwhile, the Mexican population is denouncing their own president's demands because they realize how stupid they are. The only difference here is one group has religious authority and the other does not.

 

 

Edit: the fact that this is currently happening in modernity with a multitude of attacks and counter attacks by jihadists and white terrorists, it makes for an interesting scenario when the Uyghers decide to fight back. Will they seek an apology? Financial recompense? Or will they become sufficiently radicalized to consider suicide bombings and other forms of retaliation? And when will that retaliation stop? Until they get their land back? Until the Chinese stop trying to "reeducate" them?  Will it become global? Will it stop or will it be remembered and used as excuses for further attacks 100 years from now after we've all been long dead and buried?

 

 

China isn't going to respond to Islamic terror on their the same way the west does and preach tolerance and acceptance while drone striking targets in Afghanistan. China's response would be swift and brutal. Islamic terrorists have learned they can push around The West. I don't think they will find they can push around China. China will fight back. 

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It comes as no surprise to me that some are keen on painting an entire population in a monolithic way, and that the future scenario to consider consists of this population being uniformly violent as the only option. Not just to China, but the US because reasons. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, CayceG said:

It comes as no surprise to me that some are keen on painting an entire population in a monolithic way, and that the future scenario to consider consists of this population being uniformly violent as the only option. Not just to China, but the US because reasons. 

 

 

 

Except nobody did that. I'm certain that Islamists and Jihadists don't make up the majority of the population of Muslims and I'm certain that while Fundamentalists (as history has shown) will be in favor of those actions, they themselves aren't the dangerous people we should be concerned about. I would have hoped that this board would have been above the pedantry of #NOTALL, but it seems I gave some people here more credit than was due to them.

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12 minutes ago, Dodger said:

 

 

China isn't going to respond to Islamic terror on their the same way the west does and preach tolerance and acceptance while drone striking targets in Afghanistan. China's response would be swift and brutal. Islamic terrorists have learned they can push around The West. I don't think they will find they can push around China. China will fight back. 

 

That's the part I'm worried about. The intent of the US and Europe engaging jihadists on their own territory isn't exclusively to "Kill all the brown people who don't think or act like us." and it's an absolutely terrible thing that collateral damage happens and these countries either cover it up wholesale or lie about the actual civilian loss of life. I think China has shown that it has so little regard for Muslims that I wouldn't put it behind them to just outright kill most of them with relative impunity from foreign powers.. 

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Beijing barely gives a damn about the vast majority of the overwhelmingly Han population so it's not a stretch to say that the wholesale liquidation of its Turkic population would not cause a ripple of moral reservations.

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5 hours ago, Man of Culture said:

 

European and American politicians should be paying very close attention to what goes on here.

 

Im sure they are, but they will not take the lessons from it that we think they should..

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8 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

Beijing barely gives a damn about the vast majority of the overwhelmingly Han population so it's not a stretch to say that the wholesale liquidation of its Turkic population would not cause a ripple of moral reservations.

 

The more correct thing to say is that everyone outside of China who is paying attention may voice their moral reservations, but no one who matters is going to do anything to stop it.

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4 hours ago, Dodger said:

 

 

China isn't going to respond to Islamic terror on their the same way the west does and preach tolerance and acceptance while drone striking targets in Afghanistan. China's response would be swift and brutal. Islamic terrorists have learned they can push around The West. I don't think they will find they can push around China. China will fight back. 

Well the West is constrained by democratic institutions (however imperfect) as well as a belief in most of the basic doctrines of liberalism. (in the sense of individual freedom and basic universal rights and liberties being ‘natural, or, for the less secular, ‘god-given’)

 

The Chinese state does not operate under these constraints, partially owing to the precedents set by thousands of years of uninterrupted imperial rule that elapsed only relatively recently.

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6 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

The Chinese state does not operate under these constraints, partially owing to the precedents set by thousands of years of uninterrupted imperial rule that elapsed only relatively recently.

And one could easily argue that they are still under a form of "imperial rule".

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2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said:

And one could easily argue that they are still under a form of "imperial rule".

Lol, white people 

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8 hours ago, Jose said:

@Lucian

 

I was taking issue with you declaring that the Mexican population rejected AMLO's proposal with next to 0 evidence, while also saying that Muslim leaders would definitely endorse what a Muslim community leader (not even an Imam lol) in Seville has to say (again, 0 evidence provided). It's just a whole lot of conjecture on your part brochacho.

Wait when did Lucian come back????

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