Keyser_Soze Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I know some of you aren't into this person but as someone who has seen this conversation non stop on the steam discussions I do enjoy this take of calling out these people. It's said pretty early on and I've had the same discussion with others. I would have more respect for you if you straight out said what you didn't like about me than tried to cowardly tiptoe around the subject. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 @ that Steam comment about Morrigan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I lasted about 8 minutes. No True Gamer could be a chud and complain about DEI, is the gist. Is it so hard to believe that people can be into the same hobby as yours and hold their own awful opinions? That’s like internetting 101. There’s pedophiles that enjoy video games as much or more than you do. Trying to define who the True Gamers are with Real Opinions will always lead to bad arguments. At worst, it illustrates poor self-esteem. I stopped when they described people who disagreed with them about Zelda (BotW) as ‘harassing’ them. Of all the things they likely get hate for. I used to like their videos, but gosh, maybe let someone else make the case who has thicker skin and a more sensible outlook on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, crispy4000 said: I lasted about 8 minutes. No True Gamer could be a chud and complain about DEI, is the gist. Is it so hard to believe that people can be into the same hobby as yours and hold their own awful opinions? That’s like internetting 101. There’s pedophiles that enjoy video games as much or more than you do. Trying to define who the True Gamers are with Real Opinions will always lead to bad arguments. At worst, it illustrates poor self-esteem. I stopped when they described people who disagreed with them about Zelda (BotW) as ‘harassing’ them. Of all the things they likely get hate for. I used to like their videos, but gosh, maybe let someone else make the case who has thicker skin and a more sensible outlook on the internet. I only lasted 3. The only people more insufferable than those whining about DEI in games, are the people who whine about the people whining about DEI in games. I'm sure they both get lots of engagement though (just not from me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 The whole point isn’t defining who is and isn’t true gamers, but more to point out there’s an annoying band of bad faith actors that bounce from grift to grift. Yes, there are people who play a lot of games for a lot of time who get bent out of shape over these things, but there are tons of dipshit chuds who claim to be up in arms about these things when in reality they don’t care beyond the disposable outrage. More people are talking about how it’s great that a non-woke game like Black Myth is doing well than people talking about why Black Myth is a good game. They care about the win, not the game. They can’t even point to the game’s actual text as some example of non-wokeness, just that the developer said some weird shit and courted chuds with their streaming early access restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said: I know some of you aren't into this person but as someone who has seen this conversation non stop on the steam discussions I do enjoy this take of calling out these people. It's said pretty early on and I've had the same discussion with others. I would have more respect for you if you straight out said what you didn't like about me than tried to cowardly tiptoe around the subject. I haven’t watched the video yet, but WRT Steam discussions… they’re fucking TERRIBLE. Not that social media for gaming isn’t a cesspool but Valve’s laissez faire attitude about moderation and TOS enforcement makes the joint an absolute cesspool. The gaming media broadly and gamers in general tend to be Valve nuthuggers and I get it. But this shit is really awful and it’s not like they don’t have the capital to make it better. 14 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: The whole point isn’t defining who is and isn’t true gamers, but more to point out there’s an annoying band of bad faith actors that bounce from grift to grift. Yes, there are people who play a lot of games for a lot of time who get bent out of shape over these things, but there are tons of dipshit chuds who claim to be up in arms about these things when in reality they don’t care beyond the disposable outrage. More people are talking about how it’s great that a non-woke game like Black Myth is doing well than people talking about why Black Myth is a good game. They care about the win, not the game. They can’t even point to the game’s actual text as some example of non-wokeness, just that the developer said some weird shit and courted chuds with their streaming early access restrictions. Also this. Whether it’s the absolutely manufactured bullshit around AC Shadows, a patched titty window in whatever that recent Korean game was called, there is a very clear outrage-about-woke-to-grift performative pipeline and it should be called out for being absurd and regressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 24 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: The whole point isn’t defining who is and isn’t true gamers, but more to point out there’s an annoying band of bad faith actors that bounce from grift to grift. Yes, there are people who play a lot of games for a lot of time who get bent out of shape over these things, but there are tons of dipshit chuds who claim to be up in arms about these things when in reality they don’t care beyond the disposable outrage. More people are talking about how it’s great that a non-woke game like Black Myth is doing well than people talking about why Black Myth is a good game. They care about the win, not the game. They can’t even point to the game’s actual text as some example of non-wokeness, just that the developer said some weird shit and courted chuds with their streaming early access restrictions. Who is to even say they’re not enjoying or even playing the video game. Seriously. You wouldn’t buy a new $70 game to let it sit on your shelf as a shrine to anti-wokeness. The type of personality that would actually do that sounds like quite an imaginative construct. I bet more people are shutting the game off for performance woes than to say, no man I don’t play games, I’m just here for ideological reasons. Also, internet discourse around a game often doesn’t reflect people’s general engagement with it. There’s so many popular AAA games on Steam with mixed reviews to illustrate that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Who is to even say they’re not enjoying or even playing the video game. Seriously. You wouldn’t buy a new $70 game to let it sit on your shelf as a shrine to anti-wokeness. The type of personality that would actually do that sounds like quite an imaginative construct. Performative outrage and enjoying a piece of media are not mutually exclusive. And people spend WAY MORE than $70 and spend MUCH MORE time expressing their political beliefs and being performative about them than they do in a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 9 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: Performative outrage and enjoying a piece of media are not mutually exclusive. Yes, which is why the ‘fake gamer’ accusations are basically a useless stereotype. 9 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: And people spend WAY MORE than $70 and spend MUCH MORE time expressing their political beliefs and being performative about them than they do in a game. Sure, some do. Others just spend way more time playing games than talking about them or politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 On steam you can see who owns the game when they post. For instance the major discourse on the Concord forum (as @Kal-El814 pointed out) are just many people making transphobic comments and basically dancing on the grave of the game. But you can see they haven't played it. They are just there to spew hate. I wouldn't mind an (lol this game failed) thread but the talk over there is "reject wokeness" and all this other stuff. It's disgusting to see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 4 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Who is to even say they’re not enjoying or even playing the video game. Seriously. You wouldn’t buy a new $70 game to let it sit on your shelf as a shrine to anti-wokeness. The type of personality that would actually do that sounds like quite an imaginative construct. I bet more people are shutting the game off for performance woes than to say, no man I don’t play games, I’m just here for ideological reasons. Oh, and internet discourse around a game often doesn’t reflect people’s general engagement with it. There’s so many popular AAA games on Steam with mixed reviews to illustrate that point. My brother in Christ, have you been conscious for the past ten years? People wouldn’t pay $70 for performative anti-wokeness? These idiots have emptied rifles into cases of bud lite after paying for both the bullets and the beer, they’ve smashed perfectly good coffee makers they already bought because the manufacturer briefly stopped advertising with people, they’ve cut Nike logos off of socks they owned because they made an ad they didn’t like, the list goes on. The idea that there aren’t a weird number of people who will pay less than $100 on steam for something as a badge of honor or some idiotic shit is just factually wrong. It’s also not hard to see it in action. There are plenty of overwhelmingly positive steam reviews with less than 5 hours on record. Dig a little more and you’ll find recommended reviews with less than an hour and a refunded purchase. The entire point of the argument is that a huge amount of the discussion around Black Myth isn’t that it’s a great game because it’s a great game, but it’s a great game because it’s a dagger in the back of woke somehow. From what I can tell it’s not even an anti-woke text, it’s just a game made by some people who said some weird shit about women so… hooray? If your enjoyment of a game is based purely on its supposed ideology, then are you actually enjoying the game part of it being a game, and if you aren’t then what are you even here for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 19 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: My brother in Christ, have you been conscious for the past ten years? People wouldn’t pay $70 for performative anti-wokeness? These idiots have emptied rifles into cases of bud lite after paying for both the bullets and the beer, they’ve smashed perfectly good coffee makers they already bought because the manufacturer briefly stopped advertising with people, they’ve cut Nike logos off of socks they owned because they made an ad they didn’t like, the list goes on. The idea that there aren’t a weird number of people who will pay less than $100 on steam for something as a badge of honor or some idiotic shit is just factually wrong. You’re listing products people already bought then defaced. A bit different than claiming Wu Kong is the next My Pillow. I’ll concede that it’s possible, I just don’t think many people would be signing up for Steam to get in on the ideological action. 19 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: It’s also not hard to see it in action. There are plenty of overwhelmingly positive steam reviews with less than 5 hours on record. Dig a little more and you’ll find recommended reviews with less than an hour and a refunded purchase. Former is no indication of that at all. The latter would be, I’ll look into it. 19 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: The entire point of the argument is that a huge amount of the discussion around Black Myth isn’t that it’s a great game because it’s a great game, but it’s a great game because it’s a dagger in the back of woke somehow. From what I can tell it’s not even an anti-woke text, it’s just a game made by some people who said some weird shit about women so… hooray? If your enjoyment of a game is based purely on its supposed ideology, then are you actually enjoying the game part of it being a game, and if you aren’t then what are you even here for? Again, I think it’s often that the prevailing discourse around a game doesn’t reflect engagement. Harry Potter anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Right, but you’re still extrapolating the message beyond the intent. No one is claiming everyone or even the majority of people playing Black Myth are disingenuous chuds, just that they’re dominating the discourse and being annoying. It’s annoying to watch your hobby get co-opted by assholes who have no real interest in the actual medium, but injecting their shitty attitudes into everything by force. It’s not enough for them to like something, it has to be some moral victory for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 This video does exactly what others are accusing the anti-DEI community of doing. Within 2 minutes the video basically says anyone who bought "Hotwanks" did so because they want to stick it to the DEI-obsessed community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 35 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: Right, but you’re still extrapolating the message beyond the intent. No one is claiming everyone or even the majority of people playing Black Myth are disingenuous chuds, just that they’re dominating the discourse and being annoying. It’s annoying to watch your hobby get co-opted by assholes who have no real interest in the actual medium, but injecting their shitty attitudes into everything by force. It’s not enough for them to like something, it has to be some moral victory for them. Harry Potter’s discourse was also dominated even more intensely by moral outrage. At some point, you just need to play what you feel inclined to, not worry about others co-opting your interests with their voices. Its a major problem in my mind when chuds (or the like) push narratives that contribute to a smaller game’s failure IMO. That’s where it’s most damaging. But if stuff like Black Myth or Stellar Blade sell a few more copies… so what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 These people are performative by nature, and they project everything, it's why they screamed about virtue signaling for so long, because they assumed everyone was them: This is the kind of performative dipshit nonsense they're exposed to, so they emulate it without a single thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 31 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: This video does exactly what others are accusing the anti-DEI community of doing. Within 2 minutes the video basically says anyone who bought "Hotwanks" did so because they want to stick it to the DEI-obsessed community. It quite literally doesn’t say that. “I'll say this for the Pronoun Police who make their purchasing decisions based solely on whether something is "woke" or not they've actually stumbled onto a win recently. Now while it's true that they gleefully bought a distinctly mediocre and already an actual *asset flip* in Stray Souls as soon as they found out the director was a fascist twat, I've gotta admit that after years hypocritically political consumerism, the pretend apoliticals actually have a *good* game to rally around.“ Saying that some people bought Hogwarts for this reason and that those same people are doing the same thing again for Black Myth isn’t saying or even implying that EVERYONE who bought either is doing it only for that reason anymore than saying that some idiots bought bud lite to shoot it means EVERYONE who bought bud lite is heading to the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I'll be honest, once someone starts calling games "Hogwanks" I'm going to tune them out pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 12 minutes ago, Xbob42 said: These people are performative by nature, and they project everything, it's why they screamed about virtue signaling for so long, because they assumed everyone was them: This is the kind of performative dipshit nonsense they're exposed to, so they emulate it without a single thought. Oh, it long predates any of that in regard to this medium. I think it stems from the 4chan collective wanking to rule 42 pictures and concocting a moral ethos around it for their egos. Funny how that eventually bled into politics anyways over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I'll be honest, once someone starts calling games "Hogwanks" I'm going to tune them out pretty quickly. If you’re not even going to pay attention to the point someone is making because of an F-tier pun, then perhaps don’t be so eager to be upset about what you incorrectly imagined the point to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 6 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: If you’re not even going to pay attention to the point someone is making because of an F-tier pun, then perhaps don’t be so eager to be upset about what you incorrectly imagined the point to be It makes it clear that they have no interest in having an adult conversation -- and I typically move on from children engaging in culture warrior childishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Making puns about wanking and cocks has been a staple of James' videos for well over a decade, and has nothing to do with culture warrior anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperclyp Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 They talked a bit about this on the Nextlander pod this week. Rob Zacny was on, and I always appreciate his view on these sorts of things. At risk of misremembering / not accurately portraying his view, part of his take was that in general culture in this country has rejected these weirdos pretty definitively. So when there's anything that they can latch on to that they think might at least in some way line up with their weird shit, they latch onto it as hard as they can and try to make it successful as if it vindicates their view. Perhaps increasingly so with certain topics or cultures that they don't fully understand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, crispy4000 said: Again, I think it’s often that the prevailing discourse around a game doesn’t reflect engagement. Harry Potter anyone? This is true but I don’t know that it’s relevant at all. In any hobby there are people who enjoy a thing and a smaller subset of people who talk about it. To say most people who have played Harry Potter are anti-trans (or are even aware of Rowling’s stance on the topic) would be silly and I don’t think that’s really what’s being said. BUT I think it IS fair to say that the majority of the discourse around that game WAS about that. The most discourse about TV in 2013 was probably around Game of Thrones even thought 4x more people were watching that year’s season of NCIS. Or if you’re talking about 90’s music, most people would talk about grunge or the explosion of hip hop and not talk about Garth Brooks or Hootie and the Blowfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 48 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: This is true but I don’t know that it’s relevant at all. In any hobby there are people who enjoy a thing and a smaller subset of people who talk about it. To say most people who have played Harry Potter are anti-trans (or are even aware of Rowling’s stance on the topic) would be silly and I don’t think that’s really what’s being said. BUT I think it IS fair to say that the majority of the discourse around that game WAS about that. The most discourse about TV in 2013 was probably around Game of Thrones even thought 4x more people were watching that year’s season of NCIS. Or if you’re talking about 90’s music, most people would talk about grunge or the explosion of hip hop and not talk about Garth Brooks or Hootie and the Blowfish. I don’t think we disagree on this. I’d just continue to say it’s folly to think people engaging in these discourses on either end generally aren’t ‘true’ fans of the medium. It should really be presumed that they are by default. If there’s good reason and evidence to think otherwise, sure. Otherwise, the arguments are probably missing out on a substantial swath of this contingency who do regularly game. Even if they don’t, it’s goes back to those same biases against nongamers, mainstream gamers, those who play annual sports games or CoD mostly, etc. ‘Gamers’ tend to be irrationally tribalistic and protective gatekeepers about their hobby. For that reason, I’ll always think arguments about gamer cred are asinine, and worth calling out all on their own. If someone needs to go there to argue their point, they probably aren’t worth listening to. Heck it’s even coming from a privileged position of someone that gets to blow all this money on entertainment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Again, if you watched the entire thing, it gets covered. There’s a whole section where some chud tries to rally the troops against monster hunter for some reason or another and the larger community tells him to hit the bricks specifically because they lacked basic familiarity with the franchise. It’s the annoying double standard they hide behind. Somehow no amount of proof is sufficient to show that there’s a concerted effort of assholes to push these issues, but a single character who isn’t a rail thin twenty something white chick with massive titties is somehow DEI run wild. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said: I wouldn't mind an (lol this game failed) thread but the talk over there is "reject wokeness" and all this other stuff. It's disgusting to see. I looked up gameplay for that Dustborne game that came out last week and the first video that popped up had the headline "Woke Trash" or something like that. You see a lot of the same sentiments discussing movies and comics too. A lot of it is coming from real comic fans but I suspect a lot fo it isn't. Comics were a lot more "woke" in the 70's and 80's than they are now if you want to be honest. The X-men went from a team of all white teenagers on the verge of cancellation to a multi-racial, multi-national team of diverse characters that not only saved the title, but it became THE most popular comic for close to two decades. Similar thing happened at DC with the New Teen Titans which did something similar. If you did something like that today, the cries from a vocal, yet organized minority would object so loudly you would think MOST comic fans felt that way when they probably don't. 14 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: Again, if you watched the entire thing, 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 5 hours ago, crispy4000 said: No True Gamer could be a chud and complain about DEI, is the gist. Is it so hard to believe that people can be into the same hobby as yours and hold their own awful opinions? there’s chuds in the Star Trek fandom that hate DEI, wokeness, and “how political star trek has gotten”. Being confused at the existence of these people is far more understandable than acting like single minded bigotry can’t exist in “true” gamers. lol gaming is still thought of by many as a predominantly male only hobby. Many seeing any women hired as some DEI hire, because making games should also be a boys club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: there’s chuds in the Star Trek fandom that hate DEI, wokeness, and “how political star trek has gotten”. Yeah it's fucking stupid and shows a complete lack of understanding of the source material they are supposed fans of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 19 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: Yeah it's fucking stupid and shows a complete lack of understanding of the source material they are supposed fans of. Do we need a reminder of all the right-wing dipshits that lost it over RATM becoming "woke" and "too political"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 The Onion just posted their weirdass political comics and I thought it was relevant 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Also if Sweet Baby, inc is ever used as a consultant for game it becomes an instant boycott by the anti-woke crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said: Again, if you watched the entire thing, it gets covered. There’s a whole section where some chud tries to rally the troops against monster hunter for some reason or another and the larger community tells him to hit the bricks specifically because they lacked basic familiarity with the franchise. So you're saying that he got checked by his fellow chuds who played Monster Hunter? That kind of illustrates my point here. There's clearly gamers in that fringe that both enjoy it as a hobby and participate in the dimwitted search for outrage. 50 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: there’s chuds in the Star Trek fandom that hate DEI, wokeness, and “how political star trek has gotten”. Being confused at the existence of these people is far more understandable than acting like single minded bigotry can’t exist in “true” gamers. lol Pretty sure that the latter is what I've been stating here. Bigots, hypocritics and anti-woke crusaders play video games too. So do pedophiles and school shooters. So lets, um, build an argument against their gamer cred? That's precisely what the gaming community should not be doing, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 6 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Pretty sure that the latter is what I've been stating here. Bigots, hypocritics and anti-woke crusaders play video games too. Yeah I was agreeing with you and stating the existence of these chuds in other fandoms is more confusing than their existence in gaming. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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