Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Shut up, Voltaire Grand strategy fans gobsmacked by this outrageously detailed Holy Roman Empire map from the unannounced Europa Universalis 5 | PC Gamer WWW.PCGAMER.COM History sickos are shocked and delighted by the confetti of principalities. Quote Every week for the past few months the developers at Paradox Tinto have been posting developer diaries and in-progress map screenshots from the game that everyone knows is Europa Universalis 5, but which for now they're just calling Project Caesar. This week was a big one, as yesterday's Tinto Maps post was the grand heart of early modern Europe: The Holy Roman Empire. Historical strategy fans long knew that this would be an immense undertaking at the level of fidelity which EU5 intends... but I don't think anyone truly saw this coming. The shockingly detailed detailed map shows just how absurd a patchwork of principalities, prince-electors, prince-bishoprics, free cities, prelates, archbishop-electors, and imperial peasant republics the incredibly complex Holy Roman Empire was. It's a pre-modern political structure you can't call a state and can read a dozen books on before you start to—barely—understand what it was. It just gets worse in the actual developer blog post Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 The Holy Roman Empire is perhaps the most mind-bogglingly ridiculous political entity to have actually ever existed Holy Roman Empire - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Jesus Christ. That is so dense I'm having a hard time parsing the geography. How the fuck was this ever governable. And without computers no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 2 hours ago, legend said: Jesus Christ. That is so dense I'm having a hard time parsing the geography. How the fuck was this ever governable. And without computers no less. Kind of wasn't governable by design. Certain bits of land were owned by the Church, which nominally had to participate in HRE politics but there wasn't any recourse if the Bishop who ruled the area told the Emperor to fuck himself (at least until the 30 years war). Certain places had certain representation within the Reichstag (essentially the parliament), but DIFFERENT representation within the Reichskammergericht. Sometimes the Emperor would decide one thing, the Reichstag would say another, and the Reichskammergericht would say another, and they all conflict, but there wasn't really anyone to enforce the rules. The Emperor was formally elected, but they were a Hapsburg from Austria the vast majority of the time (it was a de facto inherited position). The Emperor had very limited authority to intervene when member states of the HRE fought amongst themselves, either, as well as very little authority to collect taxes. Each member state of the HRE had to either send a certain amount of fighting men or an amount of money equal to that once a year for use in conflicts, but that's it. The Emperor wasn't allowed to make money from it, he had to make his own money from his own lands (hence why the emperor was almost always a Hapsburg - they were by far the richest house). The Holy Roman Empire would be what would ultimately come of a libertarian government taken to its logical extreme. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Could it be Crusader Kings? They use the same map as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 10 hours ago, Fizzzzle said: The Holy Roman Empire would be what would ultimately come of a libertarian government taken to its logical extreme. The best part of the HRE is that there'd territories ruled by a very minor noble whose family hasn't been relevant politically/economically for centuries and whose scope of control has been reduced to a couple of acres, a few cows, and a really dilapidated manor house/castle and yet somehow they still convinced themselves of their importance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 23 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: The best part of the HRE is that there'd territories ruled by a very minor noble whose family hasn't been relevant politically/economically for centuries and whose scope of control has been reduced to a couple of acres, a few cows, and a really dilapidated manor house/castle and yet somehow they still convinced themselves of their importance! That's how so many European noble houses became infected by Germans (I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I mean that in a functional way) - Someone could be a "prince" or "duke" or whatever in Germany, even though their family only owned a relatively small parcel of land compared to the nobility of Britain, France, or Spain, but because their titles were equal in the eyes of the pope/emperor/whomever, it was okay to marry your children to them. That's how we got the House of Hanover and the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gothe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 I forgot I didn't even mention the Aulic Council. The Aulic Council and the Reichskammergericht were basically like having two different supreme courts with overlapping areas of authority. The HRE was an absolute mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said: The HRE was an absolute mess. And yet, it managed to survive (in one form or another) for nearly 1,000 years! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: And yet, it managed to survive (in one form or another) for nearly 1,000 years! So wrong it's almost right. Over 1,000 years, depending on how you count it (one could argue Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emperor, which would put it at over 1,000 years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said: So wrong it's almost right. Over 1,000 years, depending on how you count it (one could argue Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emperor, which would put it at over 1,000 years) I'm definitely including my main man Charlemagne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 29 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I'm definitely including my main man Charlemagne By the way I wasn't saying YOU were wrong, I was saying the HRE was so wrong it was almost right. I thought I should clarify. Charlemagne is someone I would love to meet if I could travel back in time. Back when nothing could forge alliances other than charisma and sheer might, he must have had both in equal measure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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