General Gaming Rockstar employees were working 100 work weeks for Red Dead Redemption 2 (also, how RDR2 was made) UPDATE: Rockstar responds

[SaysWho?]

UPDATE: The response.

 

https://kotaku.com/we-were-working-100-hour-weeks-red-dead-redemption-2-h-1829758281

 

Quote

There seems to be some confusion arising from my interview with Harold Goldberg. The point I was trying to make in the article was related to how the narrative and dialogue in the game was crafted, which was mostly what we talked about, not about the different processes of the wider team. After working on the game for seven years, the senior writing team, which consists of four people, Mike Unsworth, Rupert Humphries, Lazlow and myself, had, as we always do, three weeks of intense work when we wrapped everything up. Three weeks, not years. We have all worked together for at least 12 years now, and feel we need this to get everything finished. After so many years of getting things organized and ready on this project, we needed this to check and finalize everything.

 

More importantly, we obviously don’t expect anyone else to work this way. Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they’re passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release. But that additional effort is a choice, and we don’t ask or expect anyone to work anything like this. Lots of other senior people work in an entirely different way and are just as productive – I’m just not one of them! No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard. I believe we go to great lengths to run a business that cares about its people, and to make the company a great place for them to work.

 

Original post:

 

http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/the-making-of-rockstar-games-red-dead-redemption-2.html

 

Quote

The polishing, rewrites, and reedits Rockstar does are immense. “We were working 100-hour weeks” several times in 2018, Dan says. The finished game includes 300,000 animations, 500,000 lines of dialogue, and many more lines of code. Even for each RDR2 trailer and TV commercial, “we probably made 70 versions, but the editors may make several hundred. Sam and I will both make both make lots of suggestions, as will other members of the team.”

 

The result of all their labor, Dan says, is “this seamless, natural-feeling experience in a world that appears real, an interactive homage to the American rural experience. [It’s] a vast four-dimensional mosaic in which the fourth dimension is time, in which the world unfolds around you, dependent on what you do.”

 

[Pikachu]

That's a lot of crunch time

[Mercury33]

Smh that’s bullshit. Just delay the game. No one should be working 100 hour weeks. 

[SaysWho?]

31 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Smh that’s bullshit. Just delay the game. No one should be working 100 hour weeks. 

 

What I'm trying to figure out is: with RDR2 being the only new Rockstar game this gen, and it's arriving 5 years after the start of the generation, and they were crunching 100 hour work weeks, then when the hell would it have released if they had normal weeks?????

 

GEE ZUZ.

[atom631]

sometimes you have to do what you have to do. There was a period of time maybe 08-11 where I didnt work less than 60-70hr/week and often if there was an emergency, 100hrs. It sucks, but I got paid good money. Now, if they were on salary or saw no additional compensation for their extra time...well then thats bullshit. 

[Mercury33]

Nah working that many hours is bullshit too. Doesn’t matter if you’re being compensated well. There’s nothing healthy about working 100 hours a week. Hire more people to work a second shift if you’ve got that much work that needs to be done. 

[SimpleG]

19 minutes ago, atom631 said:

sometimes you have to do what you have to do. There was a period of time maybe 08-11 where I didnt work less than 60-70hr/week and often if there was an emergency, 100hrs. It sucks, but I got paid good money. Now, if they were on salary or saw no additional compensation for their extra time...well then thats bullshit. 

The problem is they are not being compensated and of course they don’t get any insurance or benefits. As consumers we need to advocate for these guys even if it means a price hike.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Unionize!

 

How much rework, errors, and other inefficiencies leading to increased costs of production that could otherwise have been avoided can be traced to staff exhaustion?  I'd imagine a not insignificant amount.

 

 

[number305]

Kinda hard to get too misty eyed about programmers sitting in air conditioning working overtime.  My best friend works in concrete and his average week is 70 hours.  His hands will start bleeding if he makes a tight fist from all the chemicals he comes in contact to all week long.  There are tons of workers out there putting in overtime.  

 

I respect the effort from Rockstar.  I don't get the sense that they are really complaining in the article.  I think they are proud of their hard work.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, number305 said:

Kinda hard to get too misty eyed about programmers sitting in air conditioning working overtime.  My best friend works in concrete and his average week is 70 hours.  His hands will start bleeding if he makes a tight fist from all the chemicals he comes in contact to all week long.  There are tons of workers out there putting in overtime.  

  

I respect the effort from Rockstar.  I don't get the sense that they are really complaining in the article.  I think they are proud of their hard work.

The persons being interviewed are Houser brothers who are multimillionaires several times over even before this game is released.  Ask some low-level graphics artist who is doing this for a wage barely enough to make ends meet in San Diego or whatever high-cost city this is being developed in if he or she feels the same way.

 

The actual working environment of labor should largely be irrelevant as to our sentiments of whether that labor is being needlessly exploited.

[AbsolutSurgen]

I think people need to read the article.

 

I have no doubt that people work crazy hours at Rockstar Games -- however, this article doesn't really deal with that in any substantive way.

[Firewithin]

2 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

What I'm trying to figure out is: with RDR2 being the only new Rockstar game this gen, and it's arriving 5 years after the start of the generation, and they were crunching 100 hour work weeks, then when the hell would it have released if they had normal weeks?????

 

GEE ZUZ.

probably another 4 years at least i guess

[Mercury33]

55 minutes ago, number305 said:

Kinda hard to get too misty eyed about programmers sitting in air conditioning working overtime.  My best friend works in concrete and his average week is 70 hours.  His hands will start bleeding if he makes a tight fist from all the chemicals he comes in contact to all week long.  There are tons of workers out there putting in overtime.  

 

I respect the effort from Rockstar.  I don't get the sense that they are really complaining in the article.  I think they are proud of their hard work.

 

What a ridiculous comment.  The completely brush off something because someone else "might have it worse" is the stupidest of attitudes to have about something.  So i'll tell you what.  If I see you've been in a car accident and your laying in a ditch with a broken leg, instead of stopping and helping I'll just keep driving because someone further down the road might be in a worse accident, that sound about right?

[Bloodporne]

I've worked the American hard-worker fantasy of 70 hour weeks doing demo on a construction site and years later did the 70 hour behind-a-screen weeks people on site like to scoff at. In my experience, neither is nobler than the other, healthy, good and anything but exploitation from your sleazy employer making his wallet fatter off you.

 

That overtime you're getting while working yourself into an early grave was sucked out of your base pay to begin with. The base pay you can't afford basic 1st world shit with like sending your kid to a school to learn more than Wal-Mart cashier skills. 

 

I'm not saying any of this with some agenda or politics in mind even but having been at the receiving end of a boot kicking my face work-wise for a decade-and-a-half already, I can't fathom anyone ever siding with this type of system. There are bigger and smaller injustices, sure, but the system at its very core is rotten as fuck no matter what type of work. 

 

I've never done it but I can't imagine how soul-crushing 100 hours behind a fucking computer per week must be, no matter what you're doing at it. 

 

[RedSoxFan9]

Awful

[Kal-El814]

Gamers: “Doesn’t matter preordered.”

[best3444]

100 hours 

[Chris-]

Is there a single well-managed game developer?

[number305]

2 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

 

What a ridiculous comment.  The completely brush off something because someone else "might have it worse" is the stupidest of attitudes to have about something.  So i'll tell you what.  If I see you've been in a car accident and your laying in a ditch with a broken leg, instead of stopping and helping I'll just keep driving because someone further down the road might be in a worse accident, that sound about right?

I see from your analogy that you misunderstand the working environment.  This isn't an unforeseeable accident like a car wreck.  People can get different jobs... they can move...they can change careers.  I would not work regular 100 hour weeks.  I would quit and do something else if that was a regular expectation of me.  If others choose to keep their jobs that is their choice.  

 

If any of you think this is really evil and we need to stop companies from exploiting workers like this - then you better not be playing this game.  Because you will be fully informed and knowingly supporting this work environment if you buy it.  So lets see some true action put to your words.  No RDR2 for you.

[Paperclyp]

7 minutes ago, number305 said:

I see from your analogy that you misunderstand the working environment.  This isn't an unforeseeable accident like a car wreck.  People can get different jobs... they can move...they can change careers.  I would not work regular 100 hour weeks.  I would quit and do something else if that was a regular expectation of me.  If others choose to keep their jobs that is their choice.  

 

If any of you think this is really evil and we need to stop companies from exploiting workers like this - then you better not be playing this game.  Because you will be fully informed and knowingly supporting this work environment if you buy it.  So lets see some true action put to your words.  No RDR2 for you.

You’re not entirely wrong, but you’re also shrugging fucking big issues off like it’s no big deal, anyone can change their circumstances willy nilly if they don’t like where they’re at. 

 

Nobody is asking you you to cry for these people. But they are shitty work environments, and they don’t have to and shouldn’t exist.

 

The more stories like this that come out, the better. 

[Bloodporne]

15 minutes ago, number305 said:

I see from your analogy that you misunderstand the working environment.  This isn't an unforeseeable accident like a car wreck.  People can get different jobs... they can move...they can change careers.  I would not work regular 100 hour weeks.  I would quit and do something else if that was a regular expectation of me.  If others choose to keep their jobs that is their choice.  

 

If any of you think this is really evil and we need to stop companies from exploiting workers like this - then you better not be playing this game.  Because you will be fully informed and knowingly supporting this work environment if you buy it.  So lets see some true action put to your words.  No RDR2 for you.

Ironically, my current work hours won't allow me to play a game of its size which is why I already chose not to purchase it. 

 

 

 

[TwinIon]

If only this poor indie developer had a cash cow product that could sustain development of their next project on a reasonable and sustainable timeline.

 

This article doesn't really get into the actual working conditions though. The 100 hours thing is a single line in a puff piece about how great the game will be and how many actors they had to get to record all the writing they did. In a small bit of irony, the article does mention that all 1,200 actors are SAG-AFTRA, so at least we don't need to worry that they were worked unreasonably.

[chakoo]

1 hour ago, Chris- said:

Is there a single well-managed game developer?

Quite a few. I did only 1 night of OT, extra 4h, at Ubisoft and it was because I was doing handoff of UI to another dev.

 

rockstar is known to be one of the worse to work for in terms of OT. 

[Xbob42]

70 versions of the trailers? Those boring, sterile ass trailers? Jesus Christ I hope that's not indicative of the quality of the rest of the game.

[Brick]

This is why the games industry needs a union. If you're putting 100 hour work weeks then you also need better time management skills, hire more people, and delay the game if necessary. 

[Emblazon]

Yawn. 100 work weeks are like a rite of passage in the industry. No one takes you serious until you've literally put in your time. Like having come into the platoon late, and none of your fellow soldiers give you the time of day until you've been through a battle with them. 

 

I've been there both on Jak II and SOCOM II. I think one weekend I had 20+ Red Bulls... no sure how I'm still alive. You were never allowed to put in over 20 hours straight. But we'd sleep in our cars for 4 hours and come right back, or some people would bring sleeping bags and pass out under their stations. 

 

Though, one time, they got away with working us for 38 hours straight on The Getaway. Not sure how that worked, but it had something to do with starting late at night and the midnight rollover reset something.

[best3444]

6 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

Yawn. 100 work weeks are like a rite of passage in the industry. No one takes you serious until you've literally put in your time. Like having come into the platoon late, and none of your fellow soldiers give you the time of day until you've been through a battle with them. 

 

I've been there both on Jak II and SOCOM II. I think one weekend I had 20+ Red Bulls... no sure how I'm still alive. You were never allowed to put in over 20 hours straight. But we'd sleep in our cars for 4 hours and come right back, or some people would bring sleeping bags and pass out under their stations. 

 

Though, one time, they got away with working us for 38 hours straight on The Getaway. Not sure how that worked, but it had something to do with starting late at night and the midnight rollover reset something.

 

Wait. Who did you work for?

[Paperclyp]

38 minutes ago, Emblazon said:

Yawn. 100 work weeks are like a rite of passage in the industry. No one takes you serious until you've literally put in your time. Like having come into the platoon late, and none of your fellow soldiers give you the time of day until you've been through a battle with them. 

Oh. Well then this is not a problem then. It’s  just a rite of passage. 

 

False alarm everyone. 

[SimpleG]

1 hour ago, Emblazon said:

Yawn. 100 work weeks are like a rite of passage in the industry. No one takes you serious until you've literally put in your time. Like having come into the platoon late, and none of your fellow soldiers give you the time of day until you've been through a battle with them. 

I impressed that your employer was able to convince you that the albatross around your neck was really a gold star medal.

[Emblazon]

32 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Oh. Well then this is not a problem then. It’s  just a rite of passage. 

 

False alarm everyone. 

 

2 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I impressed that your employer was able to convince you that the albatross around your neck was really a gold star medal.

 

We were hourly. If I was salary I'd have told them to go fuck themselves then sued the shit out of them, not unlike what happened to EA a few years back. 

[SimpleG]

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

70 versions of the trailers? Those boring, sterile ass trailers? Jesus Christ I hope that's not indicative of the quality of the rest of the game.

LOL @ Rockstar games having gameplay that's better than "good."

[Bacon]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

LOL @ Rockstar games having gameplay that's better than "good."

It's good fun that's for sure. I disliked GTA5 but the gameplay was fun. And, tbh, I thought RDR was great all around, same with Bully. But I think the trailers for RDR2 are complete fucking ass and I think their trailers make the game seem bad. 

 

 

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, Emblazon said:

Yawn. 100 work weeks are like a rite of passage in the industry. No one takes you serious until you've literally put in your time. Like having come into the platoon late, and none of your fellow soldiers give you the time of day until you've been through a battle with them.

You know, I don't think I've ever used this word unironically towards any person, and it's worse since I like you, Emblazon.

 

But you sound like a real fucking cuck with this dumb bullshit.

[Mercury33]

5 hours ago, number305 said:

I see from your analogy that you misunderstand the working environment.  This isn't an unforeseeable accident like a car wreck.  People can get different jobs... they can move...they can change careers.  I would not work regular 100 hour weeks.  I would quit and do something else if that was a regular expectation of me.  If others choose to keep their jobs that is their choice.  

 

If any of you think this is really evil and we need to stop companies from exploiting workers like this - then you better not be playing this game.  Because you will be fully informed and knowingly supporting this work environment if you buy it.  So lets see some true action put to your words.  No RDR2 for you.

 

Nice straw man