Coerced castration

[TUFKAK]

Louisiana lawmakers approve surgical castration option for those guilty of sex crimes against kids

APNEWS.COM

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Louisiana lawmakers gave final approval to a bill that would allow judges the option to order someone to undergo surgical castration when the person is convicted of a sex...

 

The survivor in me is all for this, the logical part of me has reservations.

[Best]

I'm a survivor of abuse and won't deny this sounds ok to me. 

[Biggie]

Better get that Epstein list ready! 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

31 minutes ago, Biggie said:

Better get that Epstein list ready! 

[Biggie]

8 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

yupp and everyone else

[Ominous]

If only everyone convicted was actually guilty. 

[LazyPiranha]

This seems all sorts of wrong.  I’m not in favor of any irreversible punishment because we can, and will, get this wrong either accidentally or purposefully.  On top of that, ask me how comfortable I am with fucking Louisiana of all places deciding who counts as a sexual deviant and castrating them.  

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

This seems all sorts of wrong.  I’m not in favor of any irreversible punishment because we can, and will, get this wrong either accidentally or purposefully.  On top of that, ask me how comfortable I am with fucking Louisiana of all places deciding who counts as a sexual deviant and castrating them.  

But it’s only for pedophiles and groomers!
 

 

unrelated but gay people are now pedophiles and groomers according to the state of Louisiana 

[Kal-El814]

I'm not going to pretend that I can begin to understand the perspective of an SA victim so let me pave the rest of this post from that POV.

 

This shit is bananas.

 

Per the link chemical castration is already legally permissible and is rarely used, maybe two times in Louisiana. Based on that there seems to be no reason to have this added as an option beyond vibes. As unpleasant as this is to contemplate, nobody who is sexually assaulting children as young the ones covered by these penalties is somehow unaware that what they're doing is a crime. The possibility of surgical castration is going to be no more of a deterrent to committing the SA of children than the death penalty is for things like murder. We have extensive evidence that the harshness of a penalty does not deter those crimes. Have the death penalty be a foot first, slow acid dip and people are still going to commit crimes that would be eligible for that execution method.

 

Also, with additional apologies for being blunt... someone who is chemically or surgically castrated can still commit sexual assault. So these penalties are neither prophylactic nor preventative after the fact.

 

There is simply no compelling reason to have this penalty be on the books beyond something so akin to bloodlust that we may as well call it that, and that is a shit reason to allow any penalty within a modern legal system.

[Best]

27 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

someone who is chemically or surgically castrated can still commit sexual assault.

 

How is that possible when they don't have a penis or testicles? I never looked into this so I'm completely ignorant to it. You made a great post, too. I agree with you. 

[Keyser_Soze]

9 minutes ago, Best said:

 

How is that possible when they don't have a penis or testicles? I never looked into this so I'm completely ignorant to it. You made a great post, too. I agree with you. 

 

Still have hands, feet, mouth, etc. Gotta get rid of those.

[TUFKAK]

4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Still have hands, feet, mouth, etc. Gotta get rid of those.

 

?

[Best]

7 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Still have hands, feet, mouth, etc. Gotta get rid of those.

 

Lol. I just thought that testosterone was secreted from the testicles which promotes sexual desire etc. 

[MarSolo]

Just a reminder that Alan Turing was chemically castrated. 
 

So I don’t doubt a state like Louisiana would use this against the LGTBQ community.

[Haya Dune]

I'm a survivor too, and I think this law goes too far. Rape is just the tool these people use to abuse; cut off their penis and they will find another way to dominate. 

[stepee]

15 minutes ago, Best said:

 

Lol. I just thought that testosterone was secreted from the testicles which promotes sexual desire etc. 

 

Rape is very rarely about sexual desire.

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, stepee said:

 

Rape is very rarely about sexual desire.

Pedophilia though is often based on sexual desire over power dynamics.

 

I don’t claim to have the answers but child sexual abuse is responsible for many of societies ills and I don’t believe these types of humans are redeemable, there’s something fundamentally flawed with them.

[stepee]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Pedophilia though is often based on sexual desire over power dynamics.

 

I don’t claim to have the answers but child sexual abuse is responsible for many of societies ills and I don’t believe these types of humans are redeemable, there’s something fundamentally flawed with them.

 

Yeah it’s too bad a law like this isn’t to protect children but to go after “others” under the excuse as usual. If only they could just choose to be hero’s themselves like Chris:

 

 

 

[Best]

8 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Pedophilia though is often based on sexual desire over power dynamics.

 

This is what my posts are referring too. I was molested by pedophile who was an adult. So that's why I thought castration would prevent pedophiles to continue in that path. 

[Mr.Vic20]

Unfortunately, serial rapists who can not get an erection or have been castrated at some point will use objects to fulfill their needs, as rape is most often about power. As fucked up as rape is, its more survivable when performed with a penis than when these disturbed individuals/sexual sadists resort to using bottles and metal rods. Hell has nothing on Earth. 

[Best]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Unfortunately, serial rapists who can not get an erection or have been castrated at some point will use objects to fulfill their needs, as rape is most often about power. As fucked up as rape is, its more survivable when performed with a penis than when these disturbed individuals/sexual sadists resort to using bottles and metal rods. Hell has nothing on Earth. 

 

Jesus. 

[TUFKAK]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

Yeah it’s too bad a law like this isn’t to protect children but to go after “others” under the excuse as usual. If only they could just choose to be hero’s themselves like Chris:

 

 

 

I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing or not but there is a lot of evidence out there that these humans are sexually attracted to children, making this a different form of sexual abuse than rape in the traditional power aspect. I do t care the why, I want them separated from society.

 

I wasn’t my abusers first victim and I find it disturbing that there’s a theme here that hey at least you can survive a dick, as if that’s the only form of child sexual abuse. I assure you, a good portion of my life was spent wishing I hadn’t. Maybe if his balls had been cut off I’d not have had to. 

[stepee]

1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing or not but there is a lot of evidence out there that these humans are sexually attracted to children, making this a different form of sexual abuse than rape in the traditional power aspect. I do t care the why, I want them separated from society.

 

I wasn’t my abusers first victim and I find it disturbing that there’s a theme here that hey at least you can survive a dick, as if that’s the only form of child sexual abuse. I assure you, a good portion of my life was spent wishing I hadn’t. Maybe if his balls had been cut off I’d not have had to. 

 

I wasn’t disagreeing.  It’s probably more case by case there. I would expect that a lot of priest abuse is power related, for example. Whereas random Joe who has a sexual addiction to children might be a bit different. But I don’t think this law is designed to try to prevent anything that has to do with children. 

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, Ominous said:

If only everyone convicted was actually guilty. 

THIS. This is the problem I have with this. Given the inequities in our justice system along racial and economic lines, I just don't trust our justice system with adminstering something like this in a just and fair way. it's the same issue I have with the death penalty. I don't have a problem with the death penalty in theory but in practice? In THIS country? Nah... too many exonerated former convicts in this system for me to trust the state with this kind of power and responsibility.

[stepee]

One thing is for sure if this passes and I ever have to take a piss in Louisiana I’m pissing my pants before I try to sneak a piss on the side of a building!

[TUFKAK]

59 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

THIS. This is the problem I have with this. Given the inequities in our justice system along racial and economic lines, I just don't trust our justice system with adminstering something like this in a just and fair way. it's the same issue I have with the death penalty. I don't have a problem with the death penalty in theory but in practice? In THIS country? Nah... too many exonerated former convicts in this system for me to trust the state with this kind of power and responsibility.

Counter point is the recidivism rate and the amount of children victimized by these people because of the justice systems failures. My abuser had literal photos but he was “changing” so was given a second chance to ruin gods knows how many others. 

 

I do understand your views here which is why I’d make it an age cap on my world where Kab controls the spices, cause quite frankly if there’s enough evidence to link you to a pre teen I don’t care to hear your excuses and be glad I don’t own a wood chipper. 

Should we hold the state to a higher standard yea, but that also means protecting its must vulnerable members and I can’t think a society is worth saving when it prioritizes the worst of us who might be innocent over those of us who are innocent and had it taken from us.

[stepee]

How would people feel if this was a choice? As in, the perpetrator is locked up for life but they can be released if they opt themselves into chemical castration in exchange?

[TUFKAK]

9 minutes ago, stepee said:

How would people feel if this was a choice? As in, the perpetrator is locked up for life but they can be released if they opt themselves into chemical castration in exchange?

I didn’t get a choice so

[stepee]

So the innocent people they would surely chemically castrate if forced in this way have to suffer? Sounds reasonable.

[TUFKAK]

Just now, stepee said:

So the innocent people they would surely chemically castrate if forced in this way have to suffer? Sounds reasonable.

Like my innocent abuser with pictures of multiple kids right? 

[stepee]

3 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Like my innocent abuser with pictures of multiple kids right? 

 

Not sure what that really has to do with what I said beyond bringing it back to you personally.

 

Look, I’m sorry for what happened to you but if you are not okay with the hypothetical options being A) locked up forever so they couldn’t commit the act again anyway or B) chemically castrated via opt-in, and would rather a law to allow this by force, and to also be okay with innocent marginalized people being targeted and caught in the crossfires (the actual point of the law) then I think this just sounds about vengeance at the expense of innocents.

 

I get it’s an emotional topic for you and you created the thread though, so I’ll bow out and let you get it out in here.

[TUFKAK]

Let me make this very clear 

 

trigger warning

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We are worried that some person may be “innocently” sexually linked to a pre pubescent child; like maybe they were just tutoring them. That their pain matters.  I categorically refuse to believe those people are innocent. Nobody mistakes them for an adult. Nobody, this isn’t a Romeo and Juliet situation.
 

But; Wanna hear our pain?

 

 

 

that sometimes you just hear a certain sound and you’re back in that same spot, or a certain smell while cooking triggers a memory and you remember the taste, the sensation everything that was done to you. The feeling of helplessness and then the disgust that you “let it happen” for the rest of your life. 

 

you want me to feel bad for these humans who never should’ve even been in that position; I don’t. I’ve had a gun in my mouth over these feelings and countless others have taken their own lives or descended into drug abuse over it.

 

 

 

 

 

[TUFKAK]

Ftr I’d settle for life in prison without the possibility of parole 

[Best]

30 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

Let me make this very clear 

 

trigger warning

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We are worried that some person may be “innocently” sexually linked to a pre pubescent child; like maybe they were just tutoring them. That their pain matters.  I categorically refuse to believe those people are innocent. Nobody mistakes them for an adult. Nobody, this isn’t a Romeo and Juliet situation.
 

But; Wanna hear our pain?

 

 

 

that sometimes you just hear a certain sound and you’re back in that same spot, or a certain smell while cooking triggers a memory and you remember the taste, the sensation everything that was done to you. The feeling of helplessness and then the disgust that you “let it happen” for the rest of your life. 

 

you want me to feel bad for these humans who never should’ve even been in that position; I don’t. I’ve had a gun in my mouth over these feelings and countless others have taken their own lives or descended into drug abuse over it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm right there with you. The abuse completely fucked up my perspective on so many things in life. It’s a scar that never heals. Triggers etc happen to me every day. 

[sblfilms]

I am typically not for punishments that have any real degree of finality, not just because we sometimes convict the wrong person, but also because I just don't want to give up on people. Most people are not the worst thing they have ever done in life. Most people can change their ways if they actually want to.

Child predators are different though. I've mentioned before that I once got recruited by a friend to do a course with the state to be a legal chaperone for her husband so that he could have supervised visitation with his kids. I was trying to be a good friend, so both my wife and I went through the course. What I really learned from that is the type of person who gets sexual gratification from children is truly broken in a fundamental way, and the chance of recidivism is so terribly high that we should not trust literally any of them to not re-offend. I do not know anything about the issue of castration and whether it is a sensible policy in the abstract, but we should use severe means to restrict access of child predators to any space where children spend any time.

 

9 hours ago, stepee said:

Rape is very rarely about sexual desire.

 

I wanted to point out that this is a common misreading of studies about the issue of rape and the psychology of the perpetrators. What the science shows is that rapists, generally, get sexual gratification *from* having power over people. It is absolutely still about sexual desire, just in a legitimately deviant mode.