crispy4000 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Hi Fi Rush is in Humble Choice this month already. They really wanted to offload this game quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 If I was a developer at Ninja Theory, I'd definitely be making sure that my resume was fully updated. And probably Double Fine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 What is it about the games industry that drives this kind of reaction, especially from a company like Microsoft? I kind of understand shutting down Arkane Austin. Redfall was a big budget disaster that reeks of mismanagement. But I haven't heard anything bad about Hi-Fi Rush. Maybe the game didn't hit whatever mysterious metrics MS corporate had for a surprise drop on Gamepass, but I never got the impression that the studio screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: The unfortunate reality is that these smaller studios more than likely won't survive on their own without an acquisition to begin with as the investment environment isn't conducive for their independence. It's literally "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Acquisitions can sometimes be good. But MS buying everyone, managing them badly, and shutting them down quickly thereafter, isn't the way. If MS wasn't so awful at this, acquisitions would be much more palatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 9 minutes ago, TwinIon said: I kind of understand shutting down Arkane Austin. Redfall was a big budget disaster that reeks of mismanagement. But I haven't heard anything bad about Hi-Fi Rush. Maybe the game didn't hit whatever mysterious metrics MS corporate had for a surprise drop on Gamepass, but I never got the impression that the studio screwed up. They also sold it on PS5, but maybe no one bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 35 minutes ago, TwinIon said: What is it about the games industry that drives this kind of reaction, especially from a company like Microsoft? I kind of understand shutting down Arkane Austin. Redfall was a big budget disaster that reeks of mismanagement. But I haven't heard anything bad about Hi-Fi Rush. Maybe the game didn't hit whatever mysterious metrics MS corporate had for a surprise drop on Gamepass, but I never got the impression that the studio screwed up. Xbox made all sorts of promises to MS on how it would perform and is likely not meeting any of them. They're likely relooking at what benefit each studio will provide, and cutting those that are unlikely to drive much success. A lot of MS's revenue is now "fixed" behind GamePass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 hours ago, Dodger said: I almost feel kind of stupid for supporting Xbox the last few years There are no good choices right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 If Google and Meta weren't run by even more incompetent people this would have been the moment to release a game console/format announcement that wasn't dumb AF. Instead you have Meta putting buckets on people's heads and Google was making games run on a flawed concept relying on Ai to help you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 49 minutes ago, TwinIon said: But I haven't heard anything bad about Hi-Fi Rush. Maybe the game didn't hit whatever mysterious metrics MS corporate had for a surprise drop on Gamepass, but I never got the impression that the studio screwed up. Microsoft said it surpassed their expectations for a surprise drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 This suckkkksssss - fucking Tango just gone like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 20 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: A lot of MS's revenue is now "fixed" behind GamePass. Which ain't exactly a great position to be in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Which ain't exactly a great position to be in. Quote from Phil ~2-3 years ago: If Games Pass isn't growing, that mix isn't so magical, so out comes the axe. Really interested in how they address this going forward. Killing Tango doesn't fit into their historical narrative of what Games Pass is about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 From the "Poorly Aged Stuff" Xwitter account: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblfilms Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The games business can generate massive revenue but also have poorly mismanaged cost structures, and pricing that has not kept up with the increase in development costs, which will ultimately result in the need for massive cuts to increase the efficiency of capital. It is unlikely that Microsoft needs the number of studios it has acquired over the last 8 years, and now is probably a good time to pare down the portfolio. They can reassign good (and competitively priced) talent to other studios, and move any valuable IP as well. But none of that is really good for consumers. Consolidation is never actually good for consumers. It is better for one firm to fail through competition and the other to succeed than it is to simply allow one entity to purchase the other. Having these massive portfolio companies like MS has become with game studios means that MS themselves attempt to avoid their own titles from competing with one another. That is bad, especially at the scale MS is doing this now. I would hate for my livelihood to be reliant on these megacorps in the gaming space, because I think this mess is years from truly being sorted out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dexterryu Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 As much as it sucks to see devs get close, it just highlights how tough it is to make it in the industry. If you want to build an AAA game, it is expensive and needs to be a mega-hit. Miss by a little and have it just be a good/average game and you're going out of business. If a team makes a great game, the stakeholders at the top can cash in with an acquisition which they typically end up leaving when they lose the ability to make what they think is best vs the acquiring company wants, which is sustainable profit. The only way that I can see around it is to significantly increase prices (which gamers would hate) or release games in smaller chunks as episodes, which can make failure more sustainable. BG3 and Hades are examples making this work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 From IGN's Simon Cardy: Quote I asked Ninja Theory how they will measure the success of Hellblade 2 when I visited the studio recently. I have no doubt they've made exactly the game they set out to make. I just hope that's enough for them to continue making more. But honestly, after today I have my fears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: The games business can generate massive revenue but also have poorly mismanaged cost structures, and pricing that has not kept up with the increase in development costs, which will ultimately result in the need for massive cuts to increase the efficiency of capital. I keep coming back to the fact that Spider-Man 2 cost over $300 million and Insomniac themselves wondered whether it would be noticeable on-screen. Does the game look/play better than the original? It sure does! Does it look/play $300+ million better? It sure doesn't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Whatever else is happening, it's become kinda obvious that Phil Spencer has effectively "lost" the business unit and whatever vision he might've had is effectively on the corporate compost pile. The business unit is the "Matt Booty Show" in all-but-name only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 34 minutes ago, Dexterryu said: As much as it sucks to see devs get close, it just highlights how tough it is to make it in the industry. If you want to build an AAA game, it is expensive and needs to be a mega-hit. Miss by a little and have it just be a good/average game and you're going out of business. I'm not sure that reviews have as much baring on that. Yes, generally unloved stuff like Skull & Bones will fizzle and fade out quickly. But just being a basic good game can be more than okay if the concept resonates enough. Meanwhile SquareEnix pumps GoTY-level effort into FF7 Rebirth and sees less than expected results. But more to the thread topic, all that gets muddled if Games Pass and player engagement metrics are supposed to dictate what a game is worth to the publisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShreddieMercury Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I keep coming back to the fact that Spider-Man 2 cost over $300 million and Insomniac themselves wondered whether it would be noticeable on-screen. Does the game look/play better than the original? It sure does! Does it look/play $300+ million better? It sure doesn't! The margins are just not there for AAA games. It's clear why these companies are putting their foot on the gaas, even if that's also very short-sighted pretty clearly not going to work out. Sony plunged $10 billion after its PS5 sales cut. But a bigger issue is its near decade low games margin WWW.CNBC.COM Around $10 billion of value was wiped off Sony's stock this week after it cut its sales forecast for its flagship PlayStation 5 console for the fiscal year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Everyone's talking AAA, but are Redfall and Hi-Fi Rush at all that? Hi-Fi Rush was a surprise Game Pass drop, to which they said it exceeded their expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 9 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Everyone's talking AAA, but are Redfall and Hi-Fi Rush at all that? Hi-Fi Rush was a surprise Game Pass drop, to which they said it exceeded their expectations. Everyone’s talking AAA? I don’t think anyone is saying this is a sign of trouble for Indiana Jones, Call of Duty, Forza, Gears, Elder Scrolls, etc. People see Hi-Fi Rush and Redfall as medium-ish sized projects, which is a No Man’s Land today. See: SquareEnix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShreddieMercury Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 10 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Everyone's talking AAA, but are Redfall and Hi-Fi Rush at all that? Hi-Fi Rush was a surprise Game Pass drop, to which they said it exceeded their expectations. No they aren't. What this signals to me is that MS is having to completely restructure around their slim list of existing major IP, since that's likely the only way to get even marginal ROI. The market for mid-budget games - in my opinion where the most interesting things come from - is basically toast. Hellblade 2 might be the last of that kind of game from MS in quite some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 7 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Everyone’s talking AAA? I don’t think anyone is saying this is a sign of trouble for Indiana Jones, Call of Duty, Forza, Gears, Elder Scrolls, etc. People see Hi-Fi Rush and Redfall as medium-ish sized projects, which is a No Man’s Land today. See: SquareEnix. Yes, because we're talking AAA games on this page and how a slight miss might mean your studio is shuttered, but that's not what it looks like happened with Arkane and Tango. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, ShreddieMercury said: No they aren't. What this signals to me is that MS is having to completely restructure around their slim list of existing major IP, since that's likely the only way to get even marginal ROI. The market for mid-budget games - in my opinion where the most interesting things come from - is basically toast. Hellblade 2 might be the last of that kind of game from MS in quite some time. Avowed is still cooking, so as long as they don't nuke Obsidian, there will be at least one more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Everyone's talking AAA, but are Redfall and Hi-Fi Rush at all that? Hi-Fi Rush was a surprise Game Pass drop, to which they said it exceeded their expectations. HiFi no but wasnt Redfall marketed as a AAA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Spencer a year ago, May 4, 2023: "And we didn't do a good job early on in engaging Arkane Austin to really help them understand what it meant to be part of Xbox and part of first-party, and use some of our internal resources to help them move along that journey even faster. We left them to work on the game… they're a very talented team – I love that team, and I still do, and I will totally bet on them to do another great game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Lolololol ain’t no one in charge of the Xbox Titanic. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 12 minutes ago, Brian said: Lolololol ain’t no one in charge of the Xbox Titanic. The tagline was subsequently removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted May 7 Author Share Posted May 7 Arkane Austin Was Working on a Big Redfall Update for May Before Microsoft Ditched the Game and Closed the Studio - IGN WWW.IGN.COM The now abandoned Redfall had a roadmap of support that was being actively worked on before Microsoft scrapped all development and closed its developer, IGN can reveal. Quote However, there is now fresh concern that the always-online Redfall could become unplayable if and when Microsoft shuts its servers off. In March last year, ahead of Redfall's release, Arkane Austin said it was working on a fix that would reverse Redfall's always-online requirement, an aspect that was met with backlash when first announced. In an interview with Eurogamer, game director Harvey Smith said: "We listen. And we have already started work to address this in the future. We have to do some things like encrypt your save games and do a bunch of UI work to support it. And so we are looking into — I'm not supposed to promise anything — but we're looking into and working actively toward fixing that in the future." Quote However, the offline mode failed to materialize. IGN understands Redfall's May update would have added the ability to play offline, which in turn would have helped with keeping the game alive in the future. Unfortunately for players, it will never see the light of day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Well I’ll have to play redfall in the next year or so then I guess since it may vanish forever then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, stepee said: Well I’ll have to play redfall in the next year or so then I guess since it may vanish forever then. Nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Phil Spencer has effectively "lost" the business unit and whatever vision he might've had is effectively on the corporate compost pile. That's very generous of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, stepee said: Well I’ll have to play redfall in the next year or so... OLOLOLOLOLOLOLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 12 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Nah 8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: OLOLOLOLOLOLOLO someone has to be the hero we deserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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