What is the alternative to political correctness?

[Boyle5150]

9 minutes ago, SilentWorld said:

 

"I hate Buddists with their ching chong chang" "Oh I'm not racist white people can be Buddhist too you know." 

Continue with proving the point. 

Why not go all in and call me a racist?  Seriously, that would further prove just how right I am about this.

If you can't make the connection, go back to what you quoted me saying, and tell me how you came out with what you replied with.  It's fucking mind boggling.

[legend]

The alternative seems rather straightforward to me.

 

Don't be an asshole. Dispassionate objective claims are fair ground for discussion. Employ charitability: rather than assume the worst interpretation of your opponent, first ask some question to clarify.

 

 

Note that Trump very readily fails this set of criteria because he doesn't make dispassionate objective claims to debate. He's a fucking asshole who insults people where the insult adds nothing of value to the discussion. Nevermind his never ending goalpost shifting and adhoc fabricated reality.

 

 

 

The extreme left also often fails this criteria. They take any dissent as an opportunity to label you a villain belonging to the other camp with all the assumptions of position that come with that. They also often refuse to tolerate any claim if it paints a fact they don't like. The extreme right, in addition to being assholes, also fails in this way too, of course. It seems to be a very human problem.

 

 

 

It's difficult for me to quantify how many are on this extreme left, because most of my observations of it come from social media which is an amplifier of the worst of us. But there are absolutely people of this sort that exist.

[mclumber1]

We too often throw around the accusation of racism when there isn't a race aspect at all.  It would be better to use "bigoted" or "ethno-centrist".  I prefer the term "culturist" myself.  

[Boyle5150]

5 minutes ago, legend said:

 

 

 

 

The extreme left also often fails this criteria. They take any dissent as an opportunity to label you a villain belonging to the other camp with all the assumptions of position that come with that. They also often refuse to tolerate any claim if it paints a fact they don't like. The extreme right, in addition to being assholes, also fails in this way too, of course. It seems to be a very human problem.

 

 

 

100% this!  (as noted above)

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

37 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

Not at all. 

Saying I prefer rock music to country’s whiny sounding music doesn’t make me biased.   It just means I prefer one thing over the other.  

 

The real problem is that you automatically associate it with skin color and you go straight to racism.  (Which is humorous as religion =\= race) This literally only happens with people on the left and that particular religion. It’s incredible. 

 

I prefer budism over Catholicism does that make me personally biased?    No because you perceive those religions as mostly “white”.  

You can be biased and not be racist, but being biased is having a preference of one over another. In both your examples you are biased, but in your examples it is not a bad thing. 

[RedSoxFan9]

Muslims aren't a race.  Checkmate you regressive leftist.

 

[Boyle5150]

Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

You can be biased and not be racist, but being biased is having a preference of one over another. In both your examples you are biased, but in your examples it is not a bad thing. 

correct, I am using it in more of the negative aspect of what is being used in this discussion.  Basically, liking one thing over another based on a lack of critical thinking and/or lack of knowledge.

[Boyle5150]

2 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

Muslims aren't a race.  Checkmate you regressive leftist.

 

BAM GOTTEM

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Just now, Boyle5150 said:

correct, I am using it in more of the negative aspect of what is being used in this discussion.  Basically, liking one thing over another based on a lack of critical thinking and/or lack of knowledge.

That is more a case of ignorance. Being ignorant, despite it being used as an insult so often is not inherently bad. It just means a lack information or experience. 

 

I am heavily biased towards having straight sex, and I have never tried gay sex. Don't plan to. I relish my ignorance here. But I have no bias for or against those who are gay because of their sexual preference. 

 

Ignorance and bias are not inherently bad. To be honest, even the things said as a result of both are not that bad. It may piss somebody off or hurt feelings, but that is a far cry different than physically harming somebody as a result of bias or ignorance. 

[Boyle5150]

7 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

That is more a case of ignorance. Being ignorant, despite it being used as an insult so often is not inherently bad. It just means a lack information or experience. 

 

I am heavily biased towards having straight sex, and I have never tried gay sex. Don't plan to. I relish my ignorance here. But I have no bias for or against those who are gay because of their sexual preference. 

 

Ignorance and bias are not inherently bad. To be honest, even the things said as a result of both are not that bad. It may piss somebody off or hurt feelings, but that is a far cry different than physically harming somebody as a result of bias or ignorance. 

Absolutely!

 

And I was using it as the definition also applies: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair."

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

42 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

We too often throw around the accusation of racism when there isn't a race aspect at all.  It would be better to use "bigoted" or "ethno-centrist".  I prefer the term "culturist" myself.  

Western chauvinist is what them proud boys call themselves. So it's a distinction without a difference

[mclumber1]

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Western chauvinist is what them proud boys call themselves. So it's a distinction without a difference

 

Are they critics of different cultures, or different races, regardless of culture?  I'm not too familiar with this group. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

9 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

Absolutely!

 

And I was using it as the definition also applies: "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair."

 

Well you and I don't like country music. Therefore we never purchase anything related to country music. Considering there are plenty of talented country music artists, it is kind of unfair of us to never support them because of our bias. 

[Boyle5150]

4 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Well you and I don't like country music. Therefore we never purchase anything related to country music. Considering there are plenty of talented country music artists, it is kind of unfair of us to never support them because of our bias. 

Only, my wife loves country music and I have to listen to it all the time.  Tbh, as with most things, there are some good Country music songs.... shhhhhh don't tell my wife I said that.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

29 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Are they critics of different cultures, or different races, regardless of culture?  I'm not too familiar with this group. 

Claim to be unapologetically pro "Western culture" which is a roundabout way to say white people. And since culture is very much tied to race and ethnicity so again, distinction without difference. They thought it worth associating with Nazis at Charlottesville as well.

 

And they encourage their members to not masturbate so they're motivated to meet women. Cause that's their problem.

[Boyle5150]

14 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Claim to be unapologetically pro "Western culture" which is a roundabout way to say white people. And since culture is very much tied to race and ethnicity so again, distinction without difference. They thought it worth associating with Nazis at Charlottesville as well.

 

And they encourage their members to not masturbate so they're motivated to meet women. Cause that's their problem.

This is another area where the left fails on so many levels.  To say that some cultures are not better than others, ie all cultures are the same, is just fucking ridiculous. 

[mclumber1]

5 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

This is another area where the left fails on so many levels.  To say that some cultures are not better than others, ie all cultures are the same, is just fucking ridiculous. 

 

While at the same time talking down to subcultures within their own. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

6 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

This is another area where the left fails on so many levels.  To say that some cultures are not better than others, ie all cultures are the same, is just fucking ridiculous. 

I never said that. And to pretend that Western culture, as defined here in the US, is better than most others is just lol. If you ignore the negatives then yeah Western culture is great.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I never said that. And to pretend that Western culture, as defined here in the US, is better than most others is just lol. If you ignore the negatives then yeah Western culture is great.

I never claimed you did, however, if you believe that Western Culture is no better than say middle eastern Muslim cultures, then I implore you to go and live in one of those countries.  See how much better life is... don't forget to take your wife and daughter with you.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

I never claimed you did, however, if you believe that Western Culture is no better than say middle eastern Muslim cultures, then I implore you to go and live in one of those countries.  See how much better life is... don't forget to take your wife and daughter with you.

Jfc, why would I leave a white supremacist society while being white? You silly.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Jfc, why would I leave a white supremacist society while being white? You silly.

You can do better than that. 

[Boyle5150]

And if you really want to see racism and bigotry, move there!!

[Boyle5150]

You want to see slavery alive and well?  Move to Pakistan! 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I don't hate people for things they have no control over. I dislike religion in general, but there are some religions that are more harmful than others. I'll criticize them when it's appropriate. Doesn't mean I despise all the people who follow a particular religion.

 

 

And I still like Dawkins, even if he's not perfect.

[Boyle5150]

This thread amounts to... when facts are inconvenient, play the race/bigotry/bias card!

 

 

 

[Joe]

16 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

You can do better than that. 

 

It's almost as though you dont understand that he's not talking about it being hard here for white people.

[Boyle5150]

5 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

It's almost as though you dont understand that he's not talking about it being hard here for white people.

dude, it's easier for a majority of "white people" (here), and no one disputes that.  But just because someone is white, does not mean it's easier.  Can you process that?

[Joe]

Yeah I can, but that has 0 to do with what he said.

[Boyle5150]

Just now, Jose said:

Yeah I can, but that has 0 to do with what he said.

Then I'm thinking you don't really follow with what I said.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

You're right. Western culture is superior because we no longer have de jure second class citizens they're merely de facto second class and only mostly based on the color of their skin.

 

And women are equal to men, so long as you don't talk about pay (even controlling for factors such as industry and degree) or expectations in child rearing or home life.

 

There are many other examples but I don't have the time for them.

 

Being a non wasp male is better here then there, but let's not pretend the way things actually are here are worth trumpeting. Our ideals are great, I'll give us that. We do talk a big game.

[Boyle5150]

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

You're right. Western culture is superior because we no longer have de jure second class citizens they're merely de facto second class and only mostly based on the color of their skin.

 

And women are equal to men, so long as you don't talk about pay (even controlling for factors such as industry and degree) or expectations in child rearing or home life.

 

There are many other examples but I don't have the time for them.

see above, and then re-evaluate your choice. 

This is what is called, intellectual dishonesty and or pure ignorance based on a lack of what other cultures literally believe, and practice.   Are you really saying that you would rather live in a Muslim society under Sharia as apposed to the West?  Go ahead and lie to yourself and the rest of us. 

[legend]

12 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

And women are equal to men, so long as you don't talk about pay (even controlling for factors such as industry and degree) or expectations in child rearing or home life.

 

Do you think there are women who left a culture/region for the US or another western country who have better equality in the west than they did in their home region, despite that the west still has its own issues with equality? Is it always a tie in terms of how badly women are treated in a culture?

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

2 minutes ago, Boyle5150 said:

see above, and then re-evaluate your choice. 

This is what is called, intellectual dishonesty and or pure ignorance based on a lack of what other cultures literally believe, and practice.   Are you really saying that you would rather live in a Muslim society under Sharia as apposed to the West?  Go ahead and lie to yourself and the rest of us. 

Re read my edit

[Boyle5150]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Re read my edit

see legends response

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

27 minutes ago, legend said:

 

Do you think there women who left a culture/region for the US or another western country who have better equality in the west than they did in their home region, despite that the west still has its own issues with equality? Is it always tie in terms of how badly women are treated in a culture?

I'd separate the us from other western countries first of all. And also grouping the "west" together is just stupid anyway once you start getting into the country by country differences, or what defines the west? Is it Christendom? Or white people? Or what? What *is* the west? What constitutes "Western culture"? Or is it just an ideal?

 

And of course they're better off here. Just because we're better than some third world shit hole doesn't mean we're great. In all honesty I don't care about other countries when we have enough problems here. Comparing us to obviously awful countries minimizes the suffering and Injustice that resides here. (Side note: given the history of colonialism across the world, a great deal many problems have roots in our ancestors) It reminds me of down playing poverty by saying people in sub Saharan Africa have it worse. Similarly, an Amazon warehouse worker in the US is in a better position than the Sri Lankan slave laborer in Qatar, but that doesn't make things any better for the guy in the wearhouse when they live in the US. It's worse elsewhere is so dismissive (and thus generally dismissive of the problems of black and brown workers) to the point of insulting.