Television The Mandalorian OT - This is the Way

[skillzdadirecta]

Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Well now we’re doing some real math here, since Magnificent Seven is already half the film Seven Samurai is. 

You COULD also say it's The Three Amigos minus one 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

46 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

You COULD also say it's The Three Amigos minus one 

A quarter of a Hateful Eight

[Bacon]

3 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

What other Mandalorians were in live action Star Wars? And, no, Jango/Boba Fett were not Mandalorians, they just wore the armor.

I mean, I was talking about the Fett duo. Skillz included them as Mandalorians. My point was that Mando is basically the first real live action representation of the Mandalorians as far as I am aware. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

43 minutes ago, Bacon said:

I mean, I was talking about the Fett duo. Skillz included them as Mandalorians. My point was that Mando is basically the first real live action representation of the Mandalorians as far as I am aware. 

Jango’s lineage was always left with some ambiguity. The Mandalorian government disavowed him, but at the time the Mandalorians were mostly pacifists, so of coarse they’d claim the #1 and most violent bounty hunter was not of them. But Jango always claimed to be from a Mandalorian world. 
 

if he was indeed Mandalorian, then so would Boba, as he’s an exact clone of Jango. 
 

so maybe Mando is the first live action depiction. Maybe not. Definitely not the first one screen depiction though. 

[Reputator]

2 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

That’s a negative ghost rider 

 

I saw zero indication at that point in the episode that he was considering staying. Regardless of whatever symbolism you think was there, I see no proof that's what the character was thinking.

[skillzdadirecta]

30 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Jango’s lineage was always left with some ambiguity. The Mandalorian government disavowed him, but at the time the Mandalorians were mostly pacifists, so of coarse they’d claim the #1 and most violent bounty hunter was not of them. But Jango always claimed to be from a Mandalorian world. 
 

if he was indeed Mandalorian, then so would Boba, as he’s an exact clone of Jango. 
 

so maybe Mando is the first live action depiction. Maybe not. Definitely not the first one screen depiction though. 

 

My whole point is that being Bounty Hunters and Mercenaries is part of their culture and that Mando NOT being motivated by profit regarding Baby Yoda makes him and outlier. Otherwise if he was a typical Mandalorian then would have just taken his pay and left. 

 

14 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I saw zero indication at that point in the episode that he was considering staying. Regardless of whatever symbolism you think was there, I see no proof that's what the character was thinking.

 

12 hours ago, Bacon said:

What I really got from it is while he wants that, The Way comes first, at least for now. He took his helmet off alone, looking onward at the frolicking children, unmasking his hidden desires for a life different than his own.

 

Pretty much this... that's what that scene was about and it's not even TRYING to be ambiguous really.

[Mercury33]

28 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

I saw zero indication at that point in the episode that he was considering staying. Regardless of whatever symbolism you think was there, I see no proof that's what the character was thinking.

yikes. Even my kid picked up on the idea that he was torn about staying. 

[Ghost_MH]

15 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

My whole point is that being Bounty Hunters and Mercenaries is part of their culture and that Mando NOT being motivated by profit regarding Baby Yoda makes him and outlier. Otherwise if he was a typical Mandalorian then would have just taken his pay and left. 

 

Do we even know how Mandalorians perceive debts? Mando is certainly in debt to the child and helping the villagers in exchange for raising and keeping the child safe seems like it could be seen as a fair trade.

[Spork3245]

59 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Jango’s lineage was always left with some ambiguity. The Mandalorian government disavowed him, but at the time the Mandalorians were mostly pacifists, so of coarse they’d claim the #1 and most violent bounty hunter was not of them. But Jango always claimed to be from a Mandalorian world. 
 

if he was indeed Mandalorian, then so would Boba, as he’s an exact clone of Jango. 
 

so maybe Mando is the first live action depiction. Maybe not. Definitely not the first one screen depiction though. 

 

No, he's from Concord Dawn, a planet that was conquered by the Mandalorians, and when he became an orphan he was adopted by Mandalorians at a young age. He is not from Mandalore nor has any lineage to Mandalore. You could say he was trained as a Mandalorian, though, I guess. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jango_Fett/Legends There's no ambiguity to it.

[Bacon]

3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

/Legends 

That means that info insn't canon and thus his origin is unclear. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

39 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

My whole point is that being Bounty Hunters and Mercenaries is part of their culture and that Mando NOT being motivated by profit regarding Baby Yoda makes him and outlier. Otherwise if he was a typical Mandalorian then would have just taken his pay and left. 

 

Eh, I wouldn’t say outlier, exactly. Maybe for the code he’s following, sure. But not as it pertains to all Mandalorians. That would be like holding all Japanese to the code of the Samurai. 

[Spork3245]

15 minutes ago, Bacon said:

That means that info insn't canon and thus his origin is unclear. 

 

The current canon has him being even less of a Mandalorian

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Jango_Fett

[skillzdadirecta]

35 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Do we even know how Mandalorians perceive debts? Mando is certainly in debt to the child and helping the villagers in exchange for raising and keeping the child safe seems like it could be seen as a fair trade.

 

he saved the kid before he was ever in debt to him. He killed the IG Droid when it was about to kill baby Yoda because something in him stirred. Like I said it probably reminded him that he TOO was an orphan in the world before the Mandalorians took him in.

 

25 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Eh, I wouldn’t say outlier, exactly. Maybe for the code he’s following, sure. But not as it pertains to all Mandalorians. That would be like holding all Japanese to the code of the Samurai. 

 

Fair enough, but their culture is defined by being mercenaries and bounty hunters (and later conquerors until internal strife and the Jedi shut them down) They do remind me a lot of The Krogan from Mass Effect though the more aI think about it.

 

Mandalorian Culture explained

 

Quote

Mandalorians occupy a particularly unique position in Star Wars history. Even before the Old Republic established dominance over the Galaxy's systems, Mandalorians proved to be a fearful presence throughout the galaxy. Originating from the planet Mandalore, this warrior race sought out work as both bounty hunters and mercenaries. They were known to ride Mythosaurs, which, if their new canon nature aligns with the Legends canon, were the dominant species on Mandalore until the early Mandalorian warriors mounted them.

 

Maybe Mando IS typical of his race and is seeking to make baby Yoda a Mandalorian and raise him in The Way.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

By the time of the clone wars the Mandalorian culture on Mandalore was mostly pacifist in nature. There was a militant group called Death Watch, that wanted take Mandalore back to its warrior centric roots. 
 

they were some pretty interesting episodes in the Clone Wars tv series. 

[skillzdadirecta]

40 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

By the time of the clone wars the Mandalorian culture on Mandalore was mostly pacifist in nature. There was a militant group called Death Watch, that wanted take Mandalore back to its warrior centric roots. 
 

they were some pretty interesting episodes in the Clone Wars tv series. 

Isn't that why they disavowed Jango? He was definitely born on one of their worlds.

[Reputator]

7 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

yikes. Even my kid picked up on the idea that he was torn about staying. 

 

Kids are full of imagination.

 

The original quote was this:

 

21 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 PLUS he took off his helmet because he was tempted by the simple life of the village and was considering staying.

 

 

He sits down a plate of food and removes his helmet. I don't know how else he was going to eat that food otherwise, but obviously that could only mean he was considering staying.

 

Here's the correct read of the scene, and I rewatched it so I could help you guys out. Thoughtful of me, right?

 

The child runs off to play with the widow's daughter. Mando moves to protest but the widow steps in and says he'll be fine. She then asks when was the last time he took off his helmet. He says yesterday. She clarifies, "in front of someone else?" He points to the children out the window and says he was not much older than they are. He explains that his parents were killed and the Mandalorians took him in, and that he was happy they did. Not showing his face is "the way". She says if there's anything else he needs, to let her know, and she leaves.

 

Now that he's alone, he sets down the plate of food, and removes his helmet. The camera immediately changes focus to the child playing with the other kids. This is foreshadowing to his decision later on (at the 31:40 mark) to leave the child with the village. In the conversation leading up him saying so, Cara Dune makes the suggestion that he could leave his helmet off and live the rest of his life happy with the widow, and the suggestion seems to take him off guard, but he dismisses the idea. Later when the widow says it outright, adding "Wouldn't that be nice?" his voice cracks as he says "It would". He almost lets her remove his helmet but stops her. That's the first real indication he was tempted by that life. Before then, it was all about the child.

[LazyPiranha]

Look, we're arguing about the greater nuances of storytelling in a series that seems content to make no sense at all.  It's a fun watch and I'm really enjoying myself, but this show is not even four episodes long and has somehow already managed to make its own lore non-sensical.  Just last episode Mando had his little tiff and the armory lady asked him if he ever removed his helmet or ever had it removed, but in this episode we find that the consequence is to never be able to put it back on so that's kind of a meaningless question seeing as he's wearing his helmet.  The Mandalorians are "in hiding" yet they have a huge, shiny metal sigil representing their race above their front door.  

 

Half of this seems sloppy and the other half feels like a writing team with no time to breath.  Mando is asked in this episode if he's tempted to take off his helmet and shack up with the widow, a woman he's known for less time than it takes a mug of coffee to hit room temperature.  You really think he's going to abandon his entire way of life up until know for someone he just met?  A lot of stuff in this show only works as a plot device to get things moving.  Why do two farmers from the ass end of the universe harvesting tiny blue fish for a living living in straw huts recognize a Mandalorian by his armor?  Hell, if I wanted to be real shitty about the last episode I'd point out that people sure do spend a lot of time punching Mando's beskar steel helmet with their bare fist a lot and it seems to hurt him way more than it hurts their hand.  

 

Star Wars is, and continues to be profoundly stupid.  This is just an entertaining profoundly stupid.  

[Mercury33]

57 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

Kids are full of imagination.

 

The original quote was this:

 

 

 

He sits down a plate of food and removes his helmet. I don't know how else he was going to eat that food otherwise, but obviously that could only mean he was considering staying.

 

Here's the correct read of the scene, and I rewatched it so I could help you guys out. Thoughtful of me, right?

 

The child runs off to play with the widow's daughter. Mando moves to protest but the widow steps in and says he'll be fine. She then asks when was the last time he took off his helmet. He says yesterday. She clarifies, "in front of someone else?" He points to the children out the window and says he was not much older than they are. He explains that his parents were killed and the Mandalorians took him in, and that he was happy they did. Not showing his face is "the way". She says if there's anything else he needs, to let her know, and she leaves.

 

Now that he's alone, he sets down the plate of food, and removes his helmet. The camera immediately changes focus to the child playing with the other kids. This is foreshadowing to his decision later on (at the 31:40 mark) to leave the child with the village. In the conversation leading up him saying so, Cara Dune makes the suggestion that he could leave his helmet off and live the rest of his life happy with the widow, and the suggestion seems to take him off guard, but he dismisses the idea. Later when the widow says it outright, adding "Wouldn't that be nice?" his voice cracks as he says "It would". He almost lets her remove his helmet but stops her. That's the first real indication he was tempted by that life. Before then, it was all about the child.

I didn’t bother reading any of that because past posts lead to believe its full of nonsense. I’m sure you used some big words though so 👍🏻

[Reputator]

Just now, Mercury33 said:

I didn’t bother reading any of that because past posts lead to believe its full of nonsense. I’m sure you used some big words though so 👍🏻

 

No I dumbed it down so you'd understand. I even provided pictures.

[LazyPiranha]

Look, let's find the compromise here, yeah?  Can we agree that the shot is clearly framed to show that Mando is contemplating the simple life and what it would mean to hang it all up and live here peacefully while at the same time acknowledging that the show has done none of the emotional labor to justify that?  

[AbsolutSurgen]

I think you guys are looking for depth that just isn't there.

 

IMHO, The Mandalorian is the TV equivalent of a good 80s action movie.  It has 2-3 good action sequences, with just enough context put around it to make it interesting. 

1)  The only two continuing characters are a puppet that doesn't talk and a man who we've never seen his face (tons of emotion are interpreted through facial expressions) who speaks in terse sentences.  The dialog in this show conveys little emotion.

2)  This show "tells, not shows".  They felt the need to have the widow tell us that The Child was really enjoying himself on the planet (rather than demonstrating it through actions). Same with the concept of Mando staying in the village, we have to be told by Cara that he should consider staying.

3)  The attempt at showing a Romance between the widow and Mando was very ham-fisted.  They seemed to go from her giving a flirty smile, to trying to convince him to stay forever with very little else in between.

 

We just need to accept it for what it is.  A good fun romp with decent actions scenes, motivations that just don't make much sense, and very little emotional depth.

[Kal-El814]

23 hours ago, Reputator said:

Um, as far as Mando was concerned, yeah. He was just getting his chow on.

I swear to god.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said:

Look, let's find the compromise here, yeah?  Can we agree that the shot is clearly framed to show that Mando is contemplating the simple life and what it would mean to hang it all up and live here peacefully while at the same time acknowledging that the show has done none of the emotional labor to justify that?  

No.

[TwinIon]

I enjoyed episode 4. From the moment that Star Wars spin-off movies became a thing, doing Seven Samurai seemed like the most obvious and natural way to do a one-off. We didn’t entirely get that here, but we still got a condensed version in a Star Wars setting.

 

I’m not certain I heard it right, but when Mando is talking about his past, I think he said “the Mandalorians saved me,” perhaps implying that he’s not a Mandaloiran by birth.

[Kal-El814]

The 4th episode is only “problematic” in that the season is 8 episodes long. If this was normal serialized stuff, a puff episode wouldn’t have been an issue, per se. But if they want the season to have a solid throughline, this seems perhaps too puffy.

 

Aside from that, it was good, but mainly because I’m a sucker for training montages.

 

I honestly don’t know what show people are watching if they see Mando take off his helmet while watching the kids play and think, ”guy just wanted to eat a sandwich.” We know 3 things about him... he hates droids because they killed his parents, he’s occasionally very good at killing, and his childhood trauma makes him feel protective of defenseless children. Him literally letting his guard down in that scene and in that context isn’t there to show how he eats.

[SimpleG]

18 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I enjoyed episode 4. From the moment that Star Wars spin-off movies became a thing, doing Seven Samurai seemed like the most obvious and natural way to do a one-off. We didn’t entirely get that here, but we still got a condensed version in a Star Wars setting.

 

I’m not certain I heard it right, but when Mando is talking about his past, I think he said “the Mandalorians saved me,” perhaps implying that he’s not a Mandaloiran by birth.

Correct he refers to himself as a “foundling”.

[TwinIon]

5 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Correct he refers to himself as a “foundling”.

Yeah, but I don’t know if we have a lot of context for that term. At first I read it as specifically “Mandalorian orphan,” not necessarily generic orphan. 

[Mercury33]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I think you guys are looking for depth that just isn't there.

 

IMHO, The Mandalorian is the TV equivalent of a good 80s action movie.  It has 2-3 good action sequences, with just enough context put around it to make it interesting. 

1)  The only two continuing characters are a puppet that doesn't talk and a man who we've never seen his face (tons of emotion are interpreted through facial expressions) who speaks in terse sentences.  The dialog in this show conveys little emotion.

2)  This show "tells, not shows".  They felt the need to have the widow tell us that The Child was really enjoying himself on the planet (rather than demonstrating it through actions). Same with the concept of Mando staying in the village, we have to be told by Cara that he should consider staying.

3)  The attempt at showing a Romance between the widow and Mando was very ham-fisted.  They seemed to go from her giving a flirty smile, to trying to convince him to stay forever with very little else in between.

 

We just need to accept it for what it is.  A good fun romp with decent actions scenes, motivations that just don't make much sense, and very little emotional depth.

To be honest I don’t think the inability to see Mandos face has reduced the amount of feeling or emotion in the character at all. I mean he’s a stoic character by nature anyway so the little stares and head movements we’ve gotten paired with the little dialogue we got has done a PHENOMONAL job at subtly conveying his emotion. 
 

The show does both. But you can’t recognize that the dialogue in the show is limited then say the show is overly explicative and doesn’t show enough. The majority of the story telling and emotion is being delivered through images not words. We are shown both BY having fun and Mandos struggle with his connection to the small village and it’s reminder of his childhood. 
 

It was done as well as you could in a 30 minute episode and wasn’t as nearly out of the blue as say Ready Player Ones romance. I wouldn’t at all call it a love story. But I would say they did a good job conveying a connection between the two characters, something that could have been more had it been allowed to continue. To say it was ham fisted implies he kissed her or she professed her love for him out of the blue at the end. Neither happened. 
 

I really can’t see how people are missing the building emotions and bonds being developed. Let alone how you can miss the motivations for each character. Like what did he or any other character do that didn’t make sense?

[Mercury33]

2 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Yeah, but I don’t know if we have a lot of context for that term. At first I read it as specifically “Mandalorian orphan,” not necessarily generic orphan. 

I assumed from the Flashbacks that his family is killed in that attack he keep reliving. Then joins/is taken by the Mandoliroans and raised as one. Or something along those lines. 

[SimpleG]

5 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Yeah, but I don’t know if we have a lot of context for that term. At first I read it as specifically “Mandalorian orphan,” not necessarily generic orphan. 

I assume he is saved and raised by the Mandalorians.

3 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

To be honest I don’t think the inability to see Mandos face has reduced the amount of feeling or emotion in the character at all. I mean he’s a stoic character by nature anyway so the little stares and head movements we’ve gotten paired with the little dialogue we got has done a PHENOMONAL job at subtly conveying his emotion. 
 

The show does both. But you can’t recognize that the dialogue in the show is limited then say the show is overly explicative and doesn’t show enough. The majority of the story telling and emotion is being delivered through images not words. We are shown both BY having fun and Mandos struggle with his connection to the small village and it’s reminder of his childhood. 
 

It was done as well as you could in a 30 minute episode and wasn’t as nearly out of the blue as say Ready Player Ones romance. I wouldn’t at all call it a love story. But I would say they did a good job conveying a connection between the two characters, something that could have been more had it been allowed to continue. To say it was ham fisted implies he kissed her or she professed her love for him out of the blue at the end. Neither happened. 
 

I really can’t see how people are missing the building emotions and bonds being developed. Let alone how you can miss the motivations for each character. Like what did he or any other character do that didn’t make sense?

You beat me to posting this exact response , well said.

[Reputator]

The episode goes to great lengths to show that Mando is very resistant to the idea that he could ever live the simple life. He might envy the peace and innocence that the children in the village get to have, but when the thought is presented that he could hang it all up and start a new life himself, he's taken aback. It's just not "the way". When the idea is pushed harder, it cuts deep and breaks through his emotional wall. I just don't think that up until it's suggested, he really seriously thinks of that life for himself, but he does realize (in THAT moment) that it's best for The Child.

[skillzdadirecta]

42 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

I assumed from the Flashbacks that his family is killed in that attack he keep reliving. Then joins/is taken by the Mandoliroans and raised as one. Or something along those lines. 

 

One possibility is that his family was killed by The Mandalorians themselves in a raid. We never see WHO is attacking the village in those flashbacks and the Mandalorians take people they deem to be strong into their tribe. Something to think about.

[ort]

We see that it's battle droids? Don't we?

[AbsolutSurgen]

33 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

To be honest I don’t think the inability to see Mandos face has reduced the amount of feeling or emotion in the character at all. I mean he’s a stoic character by nature anyway so the little stares and head movements we’ve gotten paired with the little dialogue we got has done a PHENOMONAL job at subtly conveying his emotion. 

The show does both. But you can’t recognize that the dialogue in the show is limited then say the show is overly explicative and doesn’t show enough. The majority of the story telling and emotion is being delivered through images not words. We are shown both BY having fun and Mandos struggle with his connection to the small village and it’s reminder of his childhood. 

For the most part, Mando has felt just more emotional than a stoic robot -- driven by the terse dialog, and the fact that his face is covered all of the time.  Whether, Pedro Pascal has managed to convey some emotion out of this character, given the lack of opportunity he is given, is a separate conversation.

I did not feel that they showed anything that constituted Mando embracing the village life.  They barely showed anything with The Child either -- and certainly not anything I would constitute demonstrating he was in love with the village.

 

I am confused by your comment on dialog.  "Show not tell" is a basic concept in good writing.  Mando's very basic dialog is a completely different concept.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

It was done as well as you could in a 30 minute episode and wasn’t as nearly out of the blue as say Ready Player Ones romance. I wouldn’t at all call it a love story. But I would say they did a good job conveying a connection between the two characters, something that could have been more had it been allowed to continue. To say it was ham fisted implies he kissed her or she professed her love for him out of the blue at the end. Neither happened. 

 

I really can’t see how people are missing the building emotions and bonds being developed. Let alone how you can miss the motivations for each character. Like what did he or any other character do that didn’t make sense?

"The best they could do in a 30 minute episode" is my point.  Very little can be done that is emotionally worthwhile in a 10-15 minute segment on a TV show.

6 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

One possibility is that his family was killed by The Mandalorians themselves in a raid. We never see WHO is attacking the village in those flashbacks and the Mandalorians take people they deem to be strong into their tribe. Something to think about.

I thought they were battle droids from the Confederacy?

[skillzdadirecta]

2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

.I thought they were battle droids from the Confederacy?

 

Was that confirmed? If so I take back my assessment

 

3 minutes ago, ort said:

We see that it's battle droids? Don't we?

 

Probably I more than likely forgot.