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~*Official Utterly Useless Old Woman, AOC, and UBI Thread*~

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4 hours ago, Anathema- said:

If you want a big tent you're going to have a handful of dummies; but Bart Stupak didn't kill Obamacare.

Unfortunately this is true BUT, it's becoming less and less true as time moves on. Dems will have to be brave and take some risks as fsr as pushing progressive policies that will do more for more people... NOW is not that time however because the focus HAS to be getting rid of Trump and to a lesser extent, getting rid of some of the surprisingly vulnerable members in the Senate. But yeah, we'll always have to deal with more conservative members of the democratic party until the age out or the Overton thingie shifts or whatever.

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Well it has shifted. Stupak led a minor faction of anti-abortion dems, as an example. You aren't going to see that in 2020.

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3 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Unfortunately this is true BUT, it's becoming less and less true as time moves on. Dems will have to be brave and take some risks as fsr as pushing progressive policies that will do more for more people... NOW is not that time however because the focus HAS to be getting rid of Trump and to a lesser extent, getting rid of some of the surprisingly vulnerable members in the Senate. But yeah, we'll always have to deal with more conservative members of the democratic party until the age out or the Overton thingie shifts or whatever.

Aging out isn't a good strategy; see Mayor P.P. Butt. We must always continually push for progress.

 

Remember, the new deal was to save capitalism from itself and provide an alternative to fascism and communism. To analog to today, we already have fascists, but we have very few leftists, let alone communists

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6 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Dems will have to be brave and take some risks

 

feels game of thrones GIF

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What the fuck do you think we voted for in 2018, Nancy? 

 

 

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Older dems have definitely internalized the idea that the country is more conservative leaning than it is and holding Republicans accountable is basically their electrified banana. 

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5 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

Older dems still have PTSD over the 1984 election. 

 

84? 72. And 84.

 

About that though...

 

 

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I know we've talked about this before, but it's just astounding to me how politicized masks have become. Of all the stupid things... :/ 

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6 minutes ago, Nokra said:

I know we've talked about this before, but it's just astounding to me how politicized masks have become. Of all the stupid things... :/ 

 

Insurance companies should just not cover the costs of care for folks that refuse to wear masks and contract COVID-19.

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35 minutes ago, Nokra said:

I know we've talked about this before, but it's just astounding to me how politicized masks have become. Of all the stupid things... :/ 

 

Watch more Faux News, libcuck.

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43 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Watch more Faux News, libcuck.

I've recently been getting into discussions/arguments with my conservative aunts and uncles on Facebook. I gave up when my uncle's final argument was "we're all going to die at some point, so why worry about it?" 

 

:facepalm:

 

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2 hours ago, Nokra said:

we're all going to die at some point, so why worry about it?" 

Thats my go to line just before I do a bump of Ajax

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18 hours ago, Nokra said:

I've recently been getting into discussions/arguments with my conservative aunts and uncles on Facebook. I gave up when my uncle's final argument was "we're all going to die at some point, so why worry about it?" 

 

:facepalm:

 

 

"Jump off a bridge Uncle Bob."

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11 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

kill it gtfo GIF by South Park

No way it dies. It's too useful for the Republicans.

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1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

kill it gtfo GIF by South Park

Go the fuck away, McConnell.  Go and be the caretaker for a zoo's tortoise display that you were always meant to be.

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I mean these dumb anti small d democratic senate rules can simply be changed by a majority vote so it's just custom keeping it in place. If the GOP, Mitch specifically, thought they could benefit long term from removing it they'd have done it years ago, but it isn't in their interest to do so because then the senate would be a mere majoritarian institution for all matters not specifically outlined in the Constitution as requiring 2/3 or 3/4 majority.

 

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Also the filibuster is responsible for trumps election, ime.

 

Had there been no filibuster, the stimulus in 09 could have been larger/promoting faster economic growth, instead of watered down to get swing state republicans on board. Same for the ACA, we could have had the public option at the very least. Anyway, this better stimulus leads to fewer democratic losses in 2010, meaning GOP gerrymandering probably isn't as deep or pervasive. This also means that there may still have been fewer senate losses coming up to 2014, keeping it in democratic hands, leading Obama to be able to actually fill Scalias SCOTUS seat, and potentially avoiding the sequester which sapped some growth leading into 2016. This all leading to trumps election.

 

Not removing the filibuster for a Biden presidency probably dooms us to a similar fate this next decade.

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5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Also the filibuster is responsible for trumps election, ime.

 

Had there been no filibuster, the stimulus in 09 could have been larger/promoting faster economic growth, instead of watered down to get swing state republicans on board. Same for the ACA, we could have had the public option at the very least. Anyway, this better stimulus leads to fewer democratic losses in 2010, meaning GOP gerrymandering probably isn't as deep or pervasive. This also means that there may still have been fewer senate losses coming up to 2014, keeping it in democratic hands, leading Obama to be able to actually fill Scalias SCOTUS seat, and potentially avoiding the sequester which sapped some growth leading into 2016. This all leading to trumps election.

 

Not removing the filibuster for a Biden presidency probably dooms us to a similar fate this next decade.

 

A lot of what you're describing is the Democrats trying to preemptively mollify themselves though. E.g. a lot of what went wrong with the ACA was Democrats trying to preemptively mollify the GOP without accounting for the fact that the GOP was never going to make a good faith counter offer, but at the end of the day the main problem was just having to deal with Lieberman types.

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

A lot of what you're describing is the Democrats trying to preemptively mollify themselves though. E.g. a lot of what went wrong with the ACA was Democrats trying to preemptively mollify the GOP without accounting for the fact that the GOP was never going to make a good faith counter offer, but at the end of the day the main problem was just having to deal with Lieberman types.

I mean, yes, but instead of trying to get 60 votes, a majority was well there for almost everything.

 

I mean, fuck, there were enough votes for a cap and trade bill but not enough for 60. 

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I'm the interest of full disclosure, I completely ripped off this article which has this and other good bits. A must read.

 

 

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1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I'm the interest of full disclosure, I completely ripped off this article which has this and other good bits. A must read.

 

 

"When Trump loses in November, America needs to grapple with the fact that it was not our constitutional system, but Trump’s own incompetence that preserved our democracy. We might not be so lucky with the next would-be authoritarian.”

 

This quote is why someone like Josh Hawley is so terrifying to me. Someone like him would use the flawed design of our political system to wreak havoc on our society. If Biden is elected and we don't eliminate the filibuster, Democrats won't be able to do anything. Whoever the Democrat nominee is will lose due to general dissatisfaction. And we will realize that Trump really was the clownish buffoon compared to what the Republicans will bring next. 

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12 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Also the filibuster is responsible for trumps election, ime.

 

Had there been no filibuster, the stimulus in 09 could have been larger/promoting faster economic growth, instead of watered down to get swing state republicans on board. Same for the ACA, we could have had the public option at the very least. Anyway, this better stimulus leads to fewer democratic losses in 2010, meaning GOP gerrymandering probably isn't as deep or pervasive. This also means that there may still have been fewer senate losses coming up to 2014, keeping it in democratic hands, leading Obama to be able to actually fill Scalias SCOTUS seat, and potentially avoiding the sequester which sapped some growth leading into 2016. This all leading to trumps election.

 

Not removing the filibuster for a Biden presidency probably dooms us to a similar fate this next decade.

The only thing that caused a Trump presidency (aside from idiots voting for him), was Obama making fun of him at the corespondents dinner. If that never happened, we have no Trump presidency, imo. 
 

the division between parties was coming no matter what. This is the last gasps of the boomers, just like the 60’s/70’s were the last gasps of McCarthyism. They are fighting a losing battle to try to stop America from changing.

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2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

The only thing that caused a Trump presidency (aside from idiots voting for him), was Obama making fun of him at the corespondents dinner. If that never happened, we have no Trump presidency, imo.  existing.
 

the division between parties was coming no matter what. This is the last gasps of the boomers, just like the 60’s/70’s were the last gasps of McCarthyism. They are fighting a losing battle to try to stop America from changing.

FFTFY.

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7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

FFTFY.

Valid point. 
 

And I was in no way blaming Obama. Nobody could have foreseen 2016’s election. I just always saw that as a black man who was clearly better than him making fun of him., and that being a flashpoint.

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If biden wins, before Trump leaves his inauguration, he should lean over and whisper, “Remember when Obama got a second term?”

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