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~*Official Utterly Useless Old Woman, AOC, and UBI Thread*~

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16 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

 

I mean people from Spain look down on us. SPAIN!

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7 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Watch them file a suit to get their jobs back and it works. 

Or trump tries to push an EO that makes firing over something like this illegal.

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My prediction: the fired officer becomes a go-to Fox News guest, eventually gets his own show. Runs for Congress on a platform that states that anyone found making a disparaging comment about a police officer will be sent to jail indefinitely. Then in 2024 will be the the GOP'S VP candidate, running with Ivanka.

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49 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said:

 

 

"UUuuuueeegh. I make $22 an hour and if everyone else is making $20 then that makes me less better than them!!!!!" - Average person

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15 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

"UUuuuueeegh. I make $22 an hour and if everyone else is making $20 then that makes me less better than them!!!!!" - Average person

 

Meanwhile:  This is exactly the slippery slope that those opposed to the $15/hr minimum wage were arguing would occur.  Here we are.  Flipping burgers is not worth $20 an hour.  

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Just now, mclumber1 said:

 

Meanwhile:  This is exactly the slippery slope that those opposed to the $15/hr minimum wage were arguing would occur.  Here we are.  Flipping burgers is not worth $20 an hour.  

 

People living is worth $20/hr. 

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5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

People living is worth $20/hr. 

 

People can't have roommates? People can't move to a lower cost of living area?  

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2 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

People can't have roommates? People can't move to a lower cost of living area?  

 

Ok. They get roommates and now move to a lower cost of living area and hour away. Who now makes those burgers because the worker now lives over an hour away and doesn't want to commute the hour to work in the high cost of living area

 

 

Should we , I dunno, pay a higher wagea to attract workers to make the burgers in the hcol area now?

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12 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Meanwhile:  This is exactly the slippery slope that those opposed to the $15/hr minimum wage were arguing would occur.  Here we are.  Flipping burgers is not worth $20 an hour.  

 

What's the slippery slope? Wages have never risen at the same rate as inflation, and basic living costs have also increased and wages haven't kept up. I'm asking genuinely, because this is a very unempathetic view on its face.

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Speaking out of my ass: I feel like introducing basic income would be more effective than larger minimum wage increases because it seems more direct. The problem is we don't want people struggling just to survive. So rather than try to facilitate that indirectly by wage which can introduce other weird side effects or dynamics with the employer, maybe just give people the money necessary to survive? Same with health care.

 

 

But I could absolutely be completely off base here!

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12 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Meanwhile:  This is exactly the slippery slope that those opposed to the $15/hr minimum wage were arguing would occur.  Here we are.  Flipping burgers is not worth $20 an hour.  

The fact that wage employment is required for anything more than living in the most bare bones abject poverty, and we have no real social safety net, it must fall on employers to make sure that the legal minimum they pay is enough to survive.

 

A lot of service level jobs aren't going anywhere, anytime soon, minimum wage increases/automation be damned. These people deserve dignity too.

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2 minutes ago, legend said:

Speaking out of my ass: I feel like introducing basic income would be more effective than larger minimum wage increases because it seems more direct. The problem is we don't want people struggling just to survive. So rather than try an facilitate that indirectly by wage which can introduce other weird side effects or dynamics, maybe just give people the money necessary to survive? Same with health care.

 

But I could absolutely be completely off base here!

The problem with UBI is that it's being wielded as the libertarian's dream come true to utterly gut the social safety net.

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"let's try something new and unproven at mass scale anywhere in the world because forcing employers to treat the most vulnerable employees with anything resembling dignity is just too much of a cross to bear"

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21 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Meanwhile:  This is exactly the slippery slope that those opposed to the $15/hr minimum wage were arguing would occur.  Here we are.  Flipping burgers is not worth $20 an hour.  

 

Spoken like someone who has never cooked in his life. 

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1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said:

The problem with UBI is that it's being wielded as the libertarian's dream come true to utterly gut the social safety net.

I get that, but there honestly isn't much of a social safety net besides Housing, Food Stamps, and SSDI, which is basically a weird form of UBI given the stupid eligibility rules that disqualify me but qualify my aide who's leaving in a week. 

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1 minute ago, Jwheel86 said:

I get that, but there honestly isn't much of a social safety net besides Housing, Food Stamps, and SSDI, which is basically a weird form of UBI given the stupid eligibility rules that disqualify me but qualify my aide who's leaving in a week. 

And that's not so much an argument in favor of UBI as it is one for strengthening the social safety net.

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And before someone trots out the "many European countries don't even have minimum wages" canard, let me nip that in the bud right now:  those countries have strong unions that can collectively bargain "fair" salaries, something that is anathematical to our so-called "right-to-work" happy country.

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I feel minimum wage standards should reflect the cost of living of an area. 

 

When companies are trying to court and prospective employee they do this as a matter of being competitive. A tech/software company wanting a person to move from Houston needs to offer more compensation because of the hire cost of living. A person is less likely to make the move if it will feel like their income decreased. 

 

But this line of thinking doesn’t make it down to retail/front end level employees. McDonalds and Walmart do not care if their employees are going further and further in debt with CCs just to meet monthly bills and expenses, despite possibly even having government assistance in areas like NYC. Compared to the employee’s counter part in Oklahoma can live a bit more comfortably on the same $8/hour wage, working two jobs to get at least 40 hours of pay a week. 

 

I live in the Dallas area in Texas. I don’t make $20/hour, but I’m close. I paid off a new car in 60 months, carry full insurance coverage, live on my own, and I live pretty comfortably with enough buffer for vacation or emergencies. My situation is not the case in places in California, Seattle, NYC, or other high cost of living areas. 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

And before someone trots out the "many European countries don't even have minimum wages" canard, let me nip that in the bud right now:  those countries have strong unions that can collectively bargain "fair" salaries, something that is anathematical to our so-called "right-to-work" happy country.

 

Unions would be more powerful in America if there weren't so many ingrained labor laws and regulations at the state and federal level.  Why join a union if most of the basic worker rights are already being protected by the government? 

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8 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

Unions would be more powerful in America if there weren't so many ingrained labor laws and regulations at the state and federal level.  Why join a union if most of the basic worker rights are already being protected by the government? 

 

But they aren't. Labour law in the US is absolute garbage. At-will employment? Wtf is up with that. 

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3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

But they aren't. Labour law in the US is absolute garbage. At-will employment? Wtf is up with that. 

 

At will is good in some respects.  Yes, you can get fired for almost any reason at any time, but on the flip side, you can quit at any time, for any reason.  A two week notice is just customary. 

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Just now, mclumber1 said:

 

At will is good in some respects.  Yes, you can get fired for almost any reason at any time, but on the flip side, you can quit at any time, for any reason.  A two week notice is just customary. 

 

Where in the first world can you not quit your job whenever you want to? 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Where in the first world can you not quit your job whenever you want to? 

 

:shrug:

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