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30% of PS5s monthly active users have never used a PS4 and market share in the US is increasing significantly


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That is a very surprising number for a few reasons. Given the relative rarity of PS5 exclusive games, the huge install base of the PS4, and the difficulty of getting a PS5, that so many of those users wouldn't have used a PS4 is impressive. I'm curious what that number would be for prior generations, since a certain part of the users base must always be young kids getting their first console. It's especially easy now to imagine a cohort of kids who grew up with a Switch and now got PS5s. I have to imagine that some of that 30% are also PC gamers who may have skipped the PS4, but I wouldn't expect that number to be too high. It could also be gamers who were primarily Xbox players that may have moved over. I know for myself, this is the first time I haven't owned a new Xbox at launch (though I've owned Playstations before).

 

I'm glad for Sony that they've found this much success. They've been putting out good games and the hardware seems solid, so their success has been well earned.

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Sony's gaming business had a blockbuster holiday quarter as it sold 7.1 million PS5s from October to December compared to 3.9 million in the same quarter last year..

 

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To grasp the significance of all this, Sony has now sold 32.1 million PS5s compared to 25 million in November 2022, so total unit sales increased 28 percent in just a single quarter. It also means that Sony may hit its fiscal year 2022 PS5 sales forecast (18 million units from March 2022 to March 2023) if it can ship 5.2 million consoles next quarter, something that previously seemed wildly optimistic. If it does reach that goal, it'll reach 37 million in total PS5 sales by the end of its fiscal year.

 

The fact that it sold 22% of all PS5s in just that quarter is bonkers.

 

48 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

That is a very surprising number for a few reasons. Given the relative rarity of PS5 exclusive games, the huge install base of the PS4, and the difficulty of getting a PS5, that so many of those users wouldn't have used a PS4 is impressive. I'm curious what that number would be for prior generations, since a certain part of the users base must always be young kids getting their first console. It's especially easy now to imagine a cohort of kids who grew up with a Switch and now got PS5s. I have to imagine that some of that 30% are also PC gamers who may have skipped the PS4, but I wouldn't expect that number to be too high. It could also be gamers who were primarily Xbox players that may have moved over. I know for myself, this is the first time I haven't owned a new Xbox at launch (though I've owned Playstations before).

 

I'm glad for Sony that they've found this much success. They've been putting out good games and the hardware seems solid, so their success has been well earned.

 

The fact that I'm tempted to go back into GOW: Ragnarok despite how much beefier in content the game is compared to 2018 speaks volumes to the quality. 

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1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

That is a very surprising number for a few reasons. Given the relative rarity of PS5 exclusive games, the huge install base of the PS4, and the difficulty of getting a PS5, that so many of those users wouldn't have used a PS4 is impressive. I'm curious what that number would be for prior generations, since a certain part of the users base must always be young kids getting their first console. It's especially easy now to imagine a cohort of kids who grew up with a Switch and now got PS5s. I have to imagine that some of that 30% are also PC gamers who may have skipped the PS4, but I wouldn't expect that number to be too high. It could also be gamers who were primarily Xbox players that may have moved over. I know for myself, this is the first time I haven't owned a new Xbox at launch (though I've owned Playstations before).

 

I'm glad for Sony that they've found this much success. They've been putting out good games and the hardware seems solid, so their success has been well earned.


It really wouldn’t surprise me if this is typical, but only now can Sony even track this data confidently enough. Nobody needed a profile for a PS2, and many PS3s never went online. 
 

I wouldn’t expect a 90%+ upgrade rate, especially this gen simply because the leap from a PS4 to PS5 is probably the least significant. We are only just now starting to see big current gen only titles. Some gamers also just don’t ever upgrade at a certain point as they “grow out” of gaming or can’t justify the expense. 

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1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:


It really wouldn’t surprise me if this is typical, but only now can Sony even track this data confidently enough. Nobody needed a profile for a PS2, and many PS3s never went online. 
 

I wouldn’t expect a 90%+ upgrade rate, especially this gen simply because the leap from a PS4 to PS5 is probably the least significant. We are only just now starting to see big current gen only titles. Some gamers also just don’t ever upgrade at a certain point as they “grow out” of gaming or can’t justify the expense. 


tbh ps3->4 seemed less to me. The fact that a game that looks like Demons Souls can run 60fps and load near instantly? Or that you can get into the world map of Horizon or Miles Morales upon booting up the 5 in a short time? Dayum. Never mind comparing the loading between Bloodborne at release to something like Returnal or how few cross gen games last gen were 60fps.

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5 hours ago, TwinIon said:

That is a very surprising number for a few reasons. Given the relative rarity of PS5 exclusive games, the huge install base of the PS4, and the difficulty of getting a PS5, that so many of those users wouldn't have used a PS4 is impressive. I'm curious what that number would be for prior generations, since a certain part of the users base must always be young kids getting their first console. It's especially easy now to imagine a cohort of kids who grew up with a Switch and now got PS5s. I have to imagine that some of that 30% are also PC gamers who may have skipped the PS4, but I wouldn't expect that number to be too high. It could also be gamers who were primarily Xbox players that may have moved over. I know for myself, this is the first time I haven't owned a new Xbox at launch (though I've owned Playstations before).

 

I'm glad for Sony that they've found this much success. They've been putting out good games and the hardware seems solid, so their success has been well earned.

 

PC owners migrating could definitely be a thing with how outrageous the GPU market has been for so long, and PC optimization issues being a hot topic again in many games.  I never planned on buying a PS5 when they announced PC ports were coming.  I was going to wait for a ‘Pro’ model late in the game, if anything.  Plans changed.

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1 hour ago, SaysWho? said:


tbh ps3->4 seemed less to me. The fact that a game that looks like Demons Souls can run 60fps and load near instantly? Or that you can get into the world map of Horizon or Miles Morales upon booting up the 5 in a short time? Dayum. Never mind comparing the loading between Bloodborne at release to something like Returnal or how few cross gen games last gen were 60fps.


a lot of that is just QOL improvements. Miles Morales and Horizon have a better performance on PS5, but doesn’t need it. Those games aren’t made where you have to have the horsepower of a PS5 and a fast NVME drive. They’re doing that with the Horizon DLC coming out though, which is good. But for the most part these consoles have just been playing last gen games better. 
 

I think the problem has been the way the consoles have been upgraded now and how more big games have been cross gen. If not for supply issues I’m sure Sony would have shut off first party support to the PS4 over a year ago. Probably even pressuring third party devs making exclusives to do the same.
 

In many ways it has resembles PC, where minimum specs can go way back even for newer games. The ceiling is a lot higher, but the floor didn’t raise. Many games still made to support mechanical storage and 5+ year old GPUs and CPUs. Even for the PlayStation. And so this gen didn’t feel to leap nearly as much. 

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36 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:


a lot of that is just QOL improvements. Miles Morales and Horizon have a better performance on PS5, but doesn’t need it. Those games aren’t made where you have to have the horsepower of a PS5 and a fast NVME drive. They’re doing that with the Horizon DLC coming out though, which is good. But for the most part these consoles have just been playing last gen games better. 
 

I think the problem has been the way the consoles have been upgraded now and how more big games have been cross gen. If not for supply issues I’m sure Sony would have shut off first party support to the PS4 over a year ago. Probably even pressuring third party devs making exclusives to do the same.
 

In many ways it has resembles PC, where minimum specs can go way back even for newer games. The ceiling is a lot higher, but the floor didn’t raise. Many games still made to support mechanical storage and 5+ year old GPUs and CPUs. Even for the PlayStation. And so this gen didn’t feel to leap nearly as much. 
 

 

 

Instant loading and 60fps are hallmarks of more powerful, more impressive hardware. Playing Astro’s Playroom wouldn’t even be the same experience with a DS4 over the DualSense.

 

The true exclusives last Gen the first few years weren’t games that felt were impossible the generation before (infamous, knack, sunset overdrive, Bloodborne). Many of the sacrifices would have been “QoL” as well, but sacrifices could have been made graphically to make most of those games work. However, you’d be losing much of what makes Returnal the game it is if you used a solid state drive and had it 30fps. I don’t think the tower mode would be anywhere near as effective. And I think something like Rift Apart would have been much different, particularly the instant dimensional changes.

 

Plus, I’m in my 30s. Not old, but old enough that time is more precious, so I get way more game time with the new drives. :p 

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Let's be real this has a lot more to do with microsift sucking & bringing nothing to the table than sony doing anything spectacular.

 

MS put all their eggs in the xbox live, halo, gears of war baskets 20 years ago and they've never really shifted any elsewhere until very recently with game pass and the purchase of Bethesda. Once starfield and other heavy hitters come out we might see a bit of a shift but I think it's too late for them to recover this console generation.

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1 hour ago, thedarkstark said:

Let's be real this has a lot more to do with microsift sucking & bringing nothing to the table than sony doing anything spectacular.

 

MS put all their eggs in the xbox live, halo, gears of war baskets 20 years ago and they've never really shifted any elsewhere until very recently with game pass and the purchase of Bethesda. Once starfield and other heavy hitters come out we might see a bit of a shift but I think it's too late for them to recover this console generation.

But they are already selling incredibly fast. Sony doing well isn’t hampering xbox. Both have been selling everything they can produce. This is nothing like last generation. 
 

microsoft had a good 2021, and a terrible 2022, and still sold 2/3rds of sony. And this year looks incredible. 

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1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

But they are already selling incredibly fast. Sony doing well isn’t hampering xbox. Both have been selling everything they can produce. This is nothing like last generation. 
 

microsoft had a good 2021, and a terrible 2022, and still sold 2/3rds of sony. And this year looks incredible. 

That's a consequence of numerous factors: Thr rise in general gaming popularity (it's way more mainstream now then when most of us were growing up). Pandemic + lockdown + surplus of disposable income. And finally ps5 shortages, as ps5s become more readily available  the gap will only widen.

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3 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

But they are already selling incredibly fast. Sony doing well isn’t hampering xbox. Both have been selling everything they can produce.

 

I find that hard to believe when Microsoft’s hardware sales have been declining:

 

lHMF8qE.png

 

Sony’s consoles aren’t quite as hard to find as they once were either.  But unlike Microsoft their sales aren’t dropping, not in the US at least.

 

Hard to say how much of that is Sony’s line-up’s doing.  It could also be the Series consoles being the first generation launched when PC is promised to get everything 1st party day and date.

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15 hours ago, thedarkstark said:

Let's be real this has a lot more to do with microsift sucking & bringing nothing to the table than sony doing anything spectacular.

 

I really badly want to say this is the consequence of having a strong and competitive line-up of new releases in the first two years of a console launch.  That being ready to deliver during this window is key.

 

But then I remember the Dreamcast and GameCube, and think it’s gotta be more nuanced than that.

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5 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I really badly want to say this is the consequence of having a strong and competitive line-up of new releases in the first two years of a console launch.  That being ready to deliver during this window is key.

 

But then I remember the Dreamcast and GameCube, and think it’s gotta be more nuanced that that.

ps5-vs-xbox-series-xs-sales-comparison-n
WWW.VGCHARTZ.COM

The VGChartz sales comparison series of articles are updated monthly and each one focuses on a different sales [...]

Series s/xsales aren’t PS5 good, but its dar from the failure of last gen. 

ps5-vs-xbox-series-xs-sales-comparison-n
WWW.VGCHARTZ.COM

The VGChartz sales comparison series of articles are updated monthly and each one focuses on a different sales [...]

 

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9 hours ago, BloodyHell said:
ps5-vs-xbox-series-xs-sales-comparison-n
WWW.VGCHARTZ.COM

The VGChartz sales comparison series of articles are updated monthly and each one focuses on a different sales [...]

Series s/xsales aren’t PS5 good, but its dar from the failure of last gen. 

ps5-vs-xbox-series-xs-sales-comparison-n
WWW.VGCHARTZ.COM

The VGChartz sales comparison series of articles are updated monthly and each one focuses on a different sales [...]

 


VGChartz’s numbers are based on an AI algorithm they think accurately estimates what sales are, even if there’s no legitimate point of sale data to cross reference. It’s BS.  Pay them no attention, go with what NPD and the actual manufacturers say.  It's not uncommon for Chartz to be grossly in error.

 

Their existence is a pain in the ass, because some websites quote their numbers regardless, and sometimes not even say it.  Games ‘journalism.’

Credibilizty.

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15 hours ago, thedarkstark said:

Let's be real this has a lot more to do with microsift sucking & bringing nothing to the table than sony doing anything spectacular.


Maybe, but I would think if any generation would have seen a boost to Sony because of MS it would have been the PS4, as a lot of Xbox 360 owners migrated to the PS4 instead of the Xbox One. 

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3 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:


Maybe, but I would think if any generation would have seen a boost to Sony because of MS it would have been the PS4, as a lot of Xbox 360 owners migrated to the PS4 instead of the Xbox One. 

 

Similar stats to now actually.  Perhaps a little higher, depending on when you look at it.  This is from a little less than 2 years into the PS4's lifecycle:

 

Quote

"When we look at the number of people who did not own PS3, but do own PS4, those are people who have never tried these games that were very, very popular on PS3. Lots of people were asking for the Uncharted Collection..."

We asked for clarification on the number of PlayStation 4 owners who didn't own a PlayStation 3 on which these games appeared first. A Sony representative confirmed to us that PlayStation 4 new users (those that didn't upgrade from PlayStation 3) amount to approximately 40 percent of the 20.2 million install base (approximately 8.08 million).


Gameinformer (via WaybackMachine)

 

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6 hours ago, crispy4000 said:


VGChartz’s numbers are based on an AI algorithm they think accurately estimates what sales are, even if there’s no legitimate point of sale data to cross reference. It’s BS.  Pay them no attention, go with what NPD and the actual manufacturers say.  It's not uncommon for Chartz to be grossly in error.

 

Their existence is a pain in the ass, because some websites quote their numbers regardless, and sometimes not even say it.  Games ‘journalism.’

Credibilizty.

NPD and MS don't disclose Xbox hardware sales.

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16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

NPD and MS don't disclose Xbox hardware sales.

 

Exact numbers, no, unless it gets leaked.  All the less reason to trust VGChartz updating their garbage numbers on their own timeline.

 

NPD does occasionally give indication which consoles sell more/less relative to each other in the US, in revenue or units.  And Microsoft did just release their report saying that their hardware revenue was down (shared by Benji-sales on the bird site, with his take).

 

Then of course you can have stuff coming out with the Activision legal proceedings. ;)

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Exact numbers, no, unless it gets leaked.  All the less reason to trust VGChartz updating their garbage numbers on their own timeline.

 

NPD does occasionally give indication which consoles sell more/less relative to each other in the US.  And Microsoft did just release their report sharing that their hardware revenue was down (shared by Benji-sales on the bird site, with his take).

 

Then of course you can have stuff coming out with the Activision legal proceedings. ;)

 

 

 

How many Xbox Series S/X consoles have been sold?

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3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

How many Xbox Series S/X consoles have been sold?

 

According to the most recent NPD leak on Resetera, 8.7 million in the US, as of the end of November.  That's in one of the links above.

That's the best we have to go by, other than what Microsoft and NPD have said directly.

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1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

 

According to the most recent NPD leak on Resetera, 8.7 million in the US, as of the end of November.  That's in one of the links above.

That's the best we have to go by, other than what Microsoft and NPD have said directly.

Why is a supposed leak on Resetera reputable, when other sources are not?

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It's crazy how much promise MS squandered after the 360.  One of the best libraries of games on any console, just hit after hit, and a very forward thinking and accessible online system that was leagues ahead of the competition.  And then it's pretty much been miserable failure after miserable failure, perhaps (hopefully) peaking with Halo Infinite.  The lone bright spots have been backwards compatibility, which is the only reason I have a "next-gen" console, and the allowance of game pass to produce smaller, riskier games.  I agree that it's likely too late to be truly competitive with Sony, because by the time MS's first party studios really get rolling (2026 maybe? Lol who knows), it's not going to be near enough to move the needle.

 

Sony's first party output hasn't much interested me, and at this point I find modern games to be almost painfully dull.  Of the three, Nintendo seems like the safest bet for interesting games, but even they've cooled their heels and become the safest and most predictable version of themselves over time.

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3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Why is a supposed leak on Resetera reputable, when other sources are not?

 

It's not reputable as it would be if it was 'official.'  But typically, their mods remove leaks if they don't match actual data behind the subscription.  This has been going on for years since NPD stopped giving hard numbers month by month.  These leaks often come out about games that underperform expectations, but occasionally relate to hardware numbers.

 

It's absolutely worth taking with a grain of salt, as rumor.  VGChartz by comparison shouldn't be weighed as anything even possibly real.

 

This all kind of sidesteps the point that Microsoft and NPD have already said enough to suggest Series consoles are lagging right now.  And to the original point, likely not selling out of everything.

 

They just haven’t come out to say Series consoles have sold X units, as you asked.

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5 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

It's not reputable as it would be if it was 'official.'  But typically, their mods remove leaks if they don't match actual data behind the subscription.

It's absolutely worth taking with a grain of salt.  VGChartz by comparison shouldn't be weighed as anything even possibly real.

 

This all kind of belabors the point that Microsoft and NPD have already mentioned enough to say Series consoles are lagging right now.  And to the original point, likely not selling out of everything.

So if VGChartz says the Xbox Series S/X sales are 8.7 million at the end of November '22, and the leak says it's 8.7 million -- does that mean that the leak is more credible than VGChartz?  [I just did the math on VGChartz, and their LTTD sales at the end of November for NA at 8,739,728]

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48 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

So if VGChartz says the Xbox Series S/X sales are 8.7 million at the end of November '22, and the leak says it's 8.7 million -- does that mean that the leak is more credible than VGChartz?  [I just did the math on VGChartz, and their LTTD sales at the end of November for NA at 8,739,728]


VGChartz notoriously uses leaks like these to ‘correct’ their algorithm.  It’s likely already factored in.

 

They’re never trustworthy, but if you want the least amount of bullshit, it’d probably be from their Japanese data, with so much tracking released public there. But even that’s like a nice cake with actual shit frosting layered on top.

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This part from the Wiki should also say all that is needed.

 

Quote

“VGChartz has defended the credibility and reliability of its sales data, often comparing their numbers with the ones published by NPD Group, although some charts have been retroactively adjusted to better match NPD's monthly reports.“

 

Old NeoGAF used to make a hobby of calling them on this before discussion of them was banned.  NPD then stopped releasing raw numbers publicly at some point.

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1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:


VGChartz notoriously uses leaks like these to ‘correct’ their algorithm.  It’s likely already factored in.

 

They’re never trustworthy, but if you want the least amount of bullshit, it’d probably be from their Japanese data, with so much tracking released public there. But even that’s like a nice cake with actual shit frosting layered on top.

 

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

This part from the Wiki should also say all that is needed.

 

 

Old NeoGAF used to make a hobby of calling them on this before discussion of them was banned.  NPD then stopped releasing raw numbers publicly at some point.

So, you think there numbers are right, but you don't like that they make sure they tie to the data that you think we should use?

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

 

So, you think there numbers are right, but you don't like that they make sure they tie to the data that you think we should use?

 

They'll use real stats and rumored numbers both in effort to extrapolate their own estimates using an algorithm.  (illustrated to be inept)

 

This would be fine if they billed themselves as a market research company, were fully transparent about where they pull input data from, and stuck to future estimates rather than correcting their numbers as if history changed.

 

Unfortunately, that's not their modus operandi.  A legitimate tracker would never retroactively change their own numbers based on a competing firm's data.  Site is a joke.

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3 hours ago, ShreddieMercury said:

It's crazy how much promise MS squandered after the 360.  One of the best libraries of games on any console, just hit after hit, and a very forward thinking and accessible online system that was leagues ahead of the competition.  And then it's pretty much been miserable failure after miserable failure, perhaps (hopefully) peaking with Halo Infinite.  The lone bright spots have been backwards compatibility, which is the only reason I have a "next-gen" console, and the allowance of game pass to produce smaller, riskier games.  I agree that it's likely too late to be truly competitive with Sony, because by the time MS's first party studios really get rolling (2026 maybe? Lol who knows), it's not going to be near enough to move the needle.


Sony's first party output hasn't much interested me, and at this point I find modern games to be almost painfully dull.  Of the three, Nintendo seems like the safest bet for interesting games, but even they've cooled their heels and become the safest and most predictable version of themselves over time.

 

I don't think it's ever too late for Microsoft to compete, with the all studios they've bought.  It may not lead to them 'winning' the generation in hardware sales, but I think they'll finish strong, better than the Xbox One.  Remember, they were still just starting to buy devs back then.

 

Sony is becoming too predictable themselves.  I want more things like Returnal and good in-house Japanese games.  Nintendo is always playing safe, but never has been this predictable.  I'd take another Other M level surprise at this point, even if it ends up sucking.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

We should start taking bets on how Sony will fumble the PS6 ball!

 

Releasing it too late after the Xbox Next Thing.  Pissing off Europe too much already with price increases.

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18 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I don't think it's ever too late for Microsoft to compete, with the all studios they've bought.  It may not lead to them 'winning' the generation in hardware sales, but I think they'll finish strong, better than the Xbox One.  Remember, they were still just starting to buy devs back then.

 

Sony is becoming too predictable themselves.  I want more things like Returnal and good in-house Japanese games.  Nintendo is always playing safe, but never has been this predictable.  I'd take another Other M level surprise at this point, even if it ends up sucking.

 

 

 

Releasing it too late after the Xbox Next Thing.  Pissing off Europe too much already with price increases.

Sony had 3 of the top 10 selling NPD games from last year (GoW, Horizon:FW and MLB) -- the only other company with more than 1 was EA (Madden and EA).  GoW and Horizon:FW were both GOTY candidates.  They're doing OK.

 

Is it ever too late to compete?  No.  But MS hasn't shown anything to indicate that they are going to for over 10 years

 

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1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Sony had 3 of the top 10 selling NPD games from last year (GoW, Horizon:FW and MLB) -- the only other company with more than 1 was EA (Madden and EA).  GoW and Horizon:FW were both GOTY candidates.  They're doing OK.

 

Is it ever too late to compete?  No.  But MS hasn't shown anything to indicate that they are going to for over 10 years

 

Here's what they've shown: They bought Activision-Blizzard, Bethesda, Obsidian, Double-Fine, Ninja Theory, Playground Games, etc.  They've likely got more development resources than Sony now.  Perhaps even Sony and Nintendo combined. 

 

They're on track to practically monopolize entire genres:  All the biggest FPS franchises that aren't Far Cry, Apex, Destiny and Battlefield.  All CRPG devs of note outside of Larian Studios.  Maybe after Activision they'll lock that one up for completionist sake.

 

Within the next 10 years, they'll be a much stronger competitor, even more when going into the next Xbox launch.  The only thing stopping them is tripping over themselves.  Or sorely misjudging what they can afford to support under their revenue model.  Or the FTC blocking their latest $68.7 billion purchase.

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