Japanese PM: declining birth rate threatens country's ability to "continue to function as a society"

[Zaku3]

15 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

Yeah I don't see the issue. More for everyone??

 

[SuperSpreader]

Just now, Zaku3 said:

 

 

haha I mean it's ppl with means freaking out because there goes their property values and workforce.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I honestly don't know what the "obvious answer" to this situation is.

 

(Note: I philosphically don't consider this to be an actual "problem").

Fuckin’ and immigration. Has to be one of those.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I honestly don't know what the "obvious answer" to this situation is.

 

(Note: I philosphically don't consider this to be an actual "problem").

The question of why birth rates are declining, not how to reverse it

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

The question of why birth rates are declining, not how to reverse it

 

Ah gotcha.

[SaysWho?]

20 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

And some dipshits continue to think overpopulation will be the issue of the next century 

 

I mean... world population is skyrocketing regardless as to what's happening in this one country. 

 

Plus, if there were one billion fewer people right now, egg prices would likely be lower and fewer emissions would be in the air. QED mothafuckas.

 

inb4WeFoundOneOfThoseDipshits 

 

Spoiler

AlthoughIHaventReallyDelvedTooDeeplyIntoThisTopicSoIDontActuallyKnowIfItsAnIssue

 

[CitizenVectron]

Obviously the future is theoretically better if there are 100 million humans compared to 10 billion, but getting from here to there is the challenge. Our entire global model is based on perpetual growth. It doesn't have to be that way, but I can't see the people who benefit the most (capital) ever voluntarily going along with the idea of a stable population.

[CitizenVectron]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

 

I mean... world population is skyrocketing regardless as to what's happening in this one country. 

 

Plus, if there were one billion fewer people right now, egg prices would likely be lower and fewer emissions would be in the air. QED mothafuckas.

 

inb4WeFoundOneOfThoseDipshits 

 

  Hide contents

AlthoughIHaventReallyDelvedTooDeeplyIntoThisTopicSoIDontActuallyKnowIfItsAnIssue

 

 

World pop growth is slowing, and is going to peak quite soon.

[SaysWho?]

1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

World pop growth is slowing, and is going to peak quite soon.

 

Oh shit I just saw a GRAPH and the line is DESCENDING in growth rate!!!

[SaysWho?]

Second question: is it really a big deal if we go down? Stop developing as much? Stop cutting down forests for strip malls? Have fewer unplanned pregnancies? Fewer TikTok videos from people whose claim to fame is having a tall family?

[Guest]

Just now, SaysWho? said:

Second question: is it really a big deal if we go down?

It isn’t a big deal to have a smaller population, it is a potentially brutal path to get there, especially for the old people who won’t have enough young tax payers around to fund their care.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It isn’t a big deal to have a smaller population, it is a potentially brutal path to get there, especially for the old people who won’t have enough young tax payers around to fund their care.

Not even just funding but care for them in general. Childless adults will need care from a younger generation as they get older and that doesn’t come from nowhere. 
 

there’s also the problem of a significantly smaller population may lead to a decrease in living conditions as a lot of things are done manually in low cost countries and may be difficult to do cheaply if at all in wealthier areas e.g. clothes manufacturing

[Keyser_Soze]

18 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

Second question: is it really a big deal if we go down? Stop developing as much? Stop cutting down forests for strip malls? Have fewer unplanned pregnancies? Fewer TikTok videos from people whose claim to fame is having a tall family?

 

Don't forget fewer people to drive cars for @b_m_b_m_b_m

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Don't forget fewer people to drive cars for @b_m_b_m_b_m

Vmt can go down with population increases if we want to

[finaljedi]

58 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Not even just funding but care for them in general. Childless adults will need care from a younger generation as they get older and that doesn’t come from nowhere. 
 

there’s also the problem of a significantly smaller population may lead to a decrease in living conditions as a lot of things are done manually in low cost countries and may be difficult to do cheaply if at all in wealthier areas e.g. clothes manufacturing

 

One of the things that haunts me a little still came from early in my career working as a clerk in Anthem's grievances and appeals department.  I sent determination letters that the analysts dumped in a folder and once an hour I'd check the incoming appeals voicemail box to summarize and pass off to an analyst for a callback, people (mostly doctors) could initiate a verbal appeal for a claims denial.

 

Sometimes I'd get voicemails from people who weren't doctors, but the patients initiating an appeal themselves for a claims denial.  One that would come up once every month or so would be someone older, 50s or 60s, not on Medicare, still on their employer's insurance.  They would have a denied claim for a visiting home nurse for recovery from something or another, medical policy said that level of care could be performed by a member of the household and that a nurse was not medically necessary.  They would leave an upset and desperate voicemail saying they were single and didn't have anyone to even visit to care for them and needed a nurse to stop in every day.

 

So yeah, an aging population of single people will get rough..

[Guest]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Not even just funding but care for them in general. Childless adults will need care from a younger generation as they get older and that doesn’t come from nowhere. 

One of the things I adore about my wife is that she makes a point of preparing meals and taking them to our elderly widows at church because they often don’t have the energy or physical ability to fix themselves a meal, and most don’t have any children or other family members close.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

I’m bullish on technologies like AI and advanced robotics being able to ease the transition to a low/zero growth world, but there will have to be a lot of institutional adjustments that might be the source of a lot of social friction in the meantime.  When we come out the other side it will be a very different world, though, where a lot of the old economic and social ‘laws of motion ‘ no longer apply.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

33 minutes ago, finaljedi said:

 

One of the things that haunts me a little still came from early in my career working as a clerk in Anthem's grievances and appeals department.  I sent determination letters that the analysts dumped in a folder and once an hour I'd check the incoming appeals voicemail box to summarize and pass off to an analyst for a callback, people (mostly doctors) could initiate a verbal appeal for a claims denial.

 

Sometimes I'd get voicemails from people who weren't doctors, but the patients initiating an appeal themselves for a claims denial.  One that would come up once every month or so would be someone older, 50s or 60s, not on Medicare, still on their employer's insurance.  They would have a denied claim for a visiting home nurse for recovery from something or another, medical policy said that level of care could be performed by a member of the household and that a nurse was not medically necessary.  They would leave an upset and desperate voicemail saying they were single and didn't have anyone to even visit to care for them and needed a nurse to stop in every day.

 

So yeah, an aging population of single people will get rough..

And that’s for acute care/recovery! To say nothing of long term care where you need help with regular old ADLs like dressing or bathing

 

i fear without proper care and support for those who need this help (and also for those do the hard work of caring for folks as they get older) in a world (or even just a country) with fewer people we will end up with a mini epidemic of senior suicides. 

[Guest]

Personally, I’m dedicated to not living past the point of being able to do basic care for myself. I’ve seen the toll it takes on spouses and other family members to take that on day in, day out. Wouldn’t want to put that on somebody else.

[stepee]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Personally, I’m dedicated to not living past the point of being able to do basic care for myself. I’ve seen the toll it takes on spouses and other family members to take that on day in, day out. Wouldn’t want to put that on somebody else.

 

When the time comes I will do what needs to be done for you bb

[SuperSpreader]

3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

I can't see the people who benefit the most (capital) ever voluntarily going along with the idea of a stable population.

 

Fuck 'em

[TUFKAK]

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Personally, I’m dedicated to not living past the point of being able to do basic care for myself. I’ve seen the toll it takes on spouses and other family members to take that on day in, day out. Wouldn’t want to put that on somebody else.

This is another reason I keep insulin R on hand honestly. I’ve seen too many horror stories to be left in a state where I’m dependent on others.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

This is another reason I keep insulin R on hand honestly. I’ve seen too many horror stories to be left in a state where I’m dependent on others.

My wife didn’t like my idea of us shooting ip a bunch of insulin in the event of some apocalyptic scenario and drifting off to forever sleep, but sounds like a perfect way to go

[Kal-El814]

3 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

I’m bullish on technologies like AI and advanced robotics being able to ease the transition to a low/zero growth world, but there will have to be a lot of institutional adjustments that might be the source of a lot of social friction in the meantime.  When we come out the other side it will be a very different world, though, where a lot of the old economic and social ‘laws of motion ‘ no longer apply.

 

Putting technology aside for a moment, we're a far way off culturally for these technologies being used to care for people like the elderly. They will have the everliving bejeezus monetized out of them before that happens. If we could snap our fingers and have Trek style replicators now, the notion that they'd end up in the hands of normals is more far fetched than turning energy into a turkey club.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Putting technology aside for a moment, we're a far way off culturally for these technologies being used to care for people like the elderly. They will have the everliving bejeezus monetized out of them before that happens. If we could snap our fingers and have Trek style replicators now, the notion that they'd end up in the hands of normals is more far fetched than turning energy into a turkey club.

That might not be an issue if institutions adjust so that their monetization is recycled properly into income for a middle class.

 

The wage might have to be one of those institutions.  It facilitated such a recycling process during the industrial age fairly well, (with proper support from reinforcing institutions like unions) when labor clustered around the industrial machine, but it might not be properly fitted to recycle the monetization of the digital, post-industrial machine.  Because in the latter’s case, the labor input isn’t physical exertion by people, but the data produced by people.  And the wage, as an institution, just doesn’t seem well-suited to capture and recycle the value created by that form of labor.

 

I still think a properly calibrated political economy is capable of producing a middle class in a heavily automated future, though.  And honestly it’s middle classes (more specifically *societies* with middle classes) that have historically taken care of old people.  Societies without one have never really had the means or will to see to the welfare of the elderly.

[DPCyric]

6 hours ago, sblfilms said:

My wife didn’t like my idea of us shooting ip a bunch of insulin in the event of some apocalyptic scenario and drifting off to forever sleep, but sounds like a perfect way to go

 

Hmm, I've always thought about going out into the woods and punching a bear but maybe this insulin thing isn't such a bad idea 

[thewhyteboar]

6 hours ago, sblfilms said:

My wife didn’t like my idea of us shooting ip a bunch of insulin in the event of some apocalyptic scenario and drifting off to forever sleep, but sounds like a perfect way to go

[marioandsonic]

Since we're all talking about bleak end-of-life scenarios, if I ever end up in a spot where I'm stuck with an incurable disease or condition, I'll just ask someone on this forum to come to where I live and put a bullet in my head.

[TUFKAK]

9 hours ago, sblfilms said:

My wife didn’t like my idea of us shooting ip a bunch of insulin in the event of some apocalyptic scenario and drifting off to forever sleep, but sounds like a perfect way to go

100 of insulin, few shots of whiskey, just drift off.

1 minute ago, marioandsonic said:

Since we're all talking about bleak end-of-life scenarios, if I ever end up in a spot where I'm stuck with an incurable disease or condition, I'll just ask someone on this forum to come to where I live and put a bullet in my head.

I gotchu 

[Keyser_Soze]

27 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

Since we're all talking about bleak end-of-life scenarios, if I ever end up in a spot where I'm stuck with an incurable disease or condition, I'll just ask someone on this forum to come to where I live and put a bullet in my head.

 

Sounds like what my dad always told me. He'd see some old barely functioning person in a wheelchair out in public and he'd say, "If I ever look like that shoot me"

It always makes me wonder if that was what he was thinking when he actually did die.

[LazyPiranha]

Christ this thread got depressing…

 

so pineapple on pizza is good actually.

[Uaarkson]

If I was going to kill myself I would just shake hands with a cop who has been handling fentanyl.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

59 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

If I was going to kill myself I would just shake hands with a cop who has been handling fentanyl.

You’d be shaking hands with an already dead man

[TUFKAK]

2 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

Christ this thread got depressing…

 

so pineapple on pizza is good actually.

This deserves 100 of insulin

[finaljedi]

2 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

Christ this thread got depressing…

 

so pineapple on pizza is good actually.

 

You made it worse, just like how pineapple makes pizza worse.