Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: How long after a movie comes out does it take for RT to compile a fair score, though? There's probably a lot of hype reviews at first, and then maybe reviews coming from lesser known entities who weren't allowed to see press screenings, and then other kinds of reviews (I don't know what...)? I can't imagine a review scale being all that fair and "thorough" days before a movie comes out *shrugs* The vast majority of RT reviewers go to press screenings if one is available in their area. These typically occur on the Monday prior to release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazatron Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 21 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: How long after a movie comes out does it take for RT to compile a fair score, though? There's probably a lot of hype reviews at first, and then maybe reviews coming from lesser known entities who weren't allowed to see press screenings, and then other kinds of reviews (I don't know what...)? I can't imagine a review scale being all that fair and "thorough" days before a movie comes out *shrugs* Depends on when critics can screen the movie and when the review lockout ends. This isn't Twitter sentiment, these are actual critics. Look at the aggregated review count, for Captain Marvel it is at 78 which is already on the higher end of number of reviews. So the current score of 86 can be considered "fair", I would expect it settle around 80. But yeah, I'm already seeing all the internet hate about how the "fake media" is overrating this SJW trash and how Brie Larson hates white males. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: How long after a movie comes out does it take for RT to compile a fair score, though? There's probably a lot of hype reviews at first, and then maybe reviews coming from lesser known entities who weren't allowed to see press screenings, and then other kinds of reviews (I don't know what...)? I can't imagine a review scale being all that fair and "thorough" days before a movie comes out *shrugs* 78 reviews is enough that you won't see a drastic change, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop some. I tend to find that once there are about 120 reviews in, it's a pretty stable estimate of the final score it will have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 The thing is, I trust posting forum comments over most all review sites. But there's this vicious circle where forum posters always refer back to those review websites, which sometimes do sway/influence their reviews on the posting forum. And it's always these larger blockbuster tentpole fliks that get so swamped with the agenda rhetoric that it's hard to tell when the fairest time comes around to trust a review site and/or posting forum... Right now, social agendas and left/right trolling aside, I'm seeing Captain Marvel only because it's a part of the Avengers puzzle that's going to be needed when watching Endgame. I could care less if it's better than Black Panther, better than Wonder Woman, has a lot of chick rock from the 90's in it, or even if the main actress put her foot in her mouth with dumb comments about the fandom. I just want to enjoy the MCU as a whole, and I've seen maybe 3 reviews that have sounded fair so far =( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 The Wednesday prior to release is typically when 95% of the eventual total number of reviews are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, IdeaOfEvil said: I just want to enjoy the MCU as a whole, and I've seen maybe 3 reviews that have sounded fair so far =( What does it mean for a review to be “fair”, and how do you conclude that a review is fair without having seen the film itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: even if the main actress put her foot in her mouth with dumb comments about the fandom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggydoo Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 So what other movies are better than Ant Man 2 but worse than Black Panther? Dr Strange? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 33 minutes ago, sblfilms said: What does it mean for a review to be “fair”, and how do you conclude that a review is fair without having seen the film itself? I see fair as being a review that isn't comparing this movie to Black Panther or Wonder Woman (two movies that are postulated as having agendas outside of being entertaining or not by movie reviewers), that isn't mentioning some female rhetoric about there being a good amount of female rock from the 90's included to further a gender bias, and/or a review containing buzz words and phrases that lead to nowhere like "Breezy" or "Higher, further, faster? Dam straight!" Reviews that don't talk about the movie itself, that just focus on one aspect, are not reviews - They're biased confirmation statements. Even your summation of the movie in a post on these forums was fairer detailed than what's been posted online so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazatron Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I found this review to be pretty good, echoing sbl's sentiments. Just don't look to hard at the comments... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 So... we're down to reviewing reviews now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: So... we're down to reviewing reviews now I didn't review a review. SBL asked what I consider fair, and I told him *shrugs* I haven't denied any reviews as being wrong, but I'm not oblivious to seeing a large majority of them talking about everything except the movie itself. At least the Jeremy Jahns review touched on the actual plot and actors while acknowledging the troll bate comments people are giving this flik. And it at least informs me of the movie I'm going to see while not trying to tell me if I need to feel morally okay with seeing it at all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: I see fair as being a review that isn't comparing this movie to Black Panther or Wonder Woman (two movies that are postulated as having agendas outside of being entertaining or not by movie reviewers), that isn't mentioning some female rhetoric about there being a good amount of female rock from the 90's included to further a gender bias, and/or a review containing buzz words and phrases that lead to nowhere like "Breezy" or "Higher, further, faster? Dam straight!" Reviews that don't talk about the movie itself, that just focus on one aspect, are not reviews - They're biased confirmation statements. Even your summation of the movie in a post on these forums was fairer detailed than what's been posted online so far. I would say you follow terrible reviewers then. Obviously some critics are way better than others, and you have to find those who are always objective and unbiased. For instance: http://collider.com/captain-marvel-review/ A good review actually talking about the film. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Officially certified fresh. 87% and avg rating of 7.17/10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said: I would say you follow terrible reviewers then. Obviously some critics are way better than others, and you have to find those who are always objective and unbiased. For instance: http://collider.com/captain-marvel-review/ A good review actually talking about the film. That's great! Thanks for the heads up. But before you, no one posted this review link (and yea, it came out today). But all of my comments have been about the reviews that have been released before that are just hollow buzz words and truncated statements about social agendas existing. Again, I'm seeing Captain Marvel because it's part of a larger MCU puzzle I've been invested in for many years now, and I'd like to know if the movie is good because of it being a good movie and not a morally agenda'd one. I don't know. People here are trying to pull an argument here that doesn't exist for me. These Captain Marvel reviews could be about the new Joker movie releasing and I'd still have the same problems with them (yayz, new icon!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: That's great! Thanks for the heads up. But before you, no one posted this review link (and yea, it came out today). But all of my comments have been about the reviews that have been released before that are just hollow buzz words and truncated statements about social agendas existing. Again, I'm seeing Captain Marvel because it's part of a larger MCU puzzle I've been invested in for many years now, and I'd like to know if the movie is good because of it being a good movie and not a morally agenda'd one. I don't know. People here are trying to pull an argument here that doesn't exist for me. These Captain Marvel reviews could be about the new Joker movie releasing and I'd still have the same problems with them (yayz, new icon!) Well, I don't know about others, but yes, I agree with you that pre-release buzz (or negativity) is pointless to follow. Always wait for the scores to settle on RT before trusting it at all. Otherwise, go to reviewers others and yourself trust. I'm not trying to create an argument on your behalf that you aren't making (though you are skating very close towards) and I'm happy to help (if I can). Websites I trust, though be fore-warned they do address social agendas, etc. but always review movies fairly, I think: https://birthmoviesdeath.com/ https://www.slashfilm.com/ http://collider.com/ http://www.reelviews.net/ https://www.avclub.com/c/review/movie-review https://www.highdefdigest.com/ Reviews from these places are coming in today so they are reviews you can also trust to not be just pre-release buzz or hype. I hope that helps some! Please note that even on those websites there are some contributors/reviewers I like more than others but all are generally good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I will also add that it's pretty rare for reviews to come out this late for an MCU movie. Usually they appear about 2 to 3 weeks beforehand, but there was some unusual circumstances that pushed the premier of the movie to March 4th. Marvel doesn't lift the embargo until the premier takes place. So I can understand the frustration in only having previews to rely on up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Well, I don't know about others, but yes, I agree with you that pre-release buzz (or negativity) is pointless to follow. Always wait for the scores to settle on RT before trusting it at all. Otherwise, go to reviewers others and yourself trust. I'm not trying to create an argument on your behalf that you aren't making (though you are skating very close towards) and I'm happy to help (if I can). Websites I trust, though be fore-warned they do address social agendas, etc. but always review movies fairly, I think: At the very top of this page (page 9 for me) that's what I asked: at what moment does RT show the fairest score for a movie. How that made me "skate very close to starting an argument" (about something I don't know what's being argued about) is baffling. People want to know what I considered fair, wanted to tell me that I'm reviewing reviewers, and that I don't follow good reviews when all I ever posted was that the reviews from the last week+ have all been hollow crap. Again, I trust reviews from posting forums before I do websites or newspapers, so what am I saying that's so disturbing to people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: At the very top of this page (page 9 for me) that's what I asked: at what moment does RT show the fairest score for a movie. How that made me "skate very close to starting an argument" (about something I don't know what's being argued about) is baffling. People want to know what I considered fair, wanted to tell me that I'm reviewing reviewers, and that I don't follow good reviews when all I ever posted was that the reviews from the last week+ have all been hollow crap. Again, I trust reviews from posting forums before I do websites or newspapers, so what am I saying that's so disturbing to people? It wasn't the question about RT that indicated to me that you're skating close to the argument some users here think you might be making. It's the constant issue with "social agendas", etc. It's weird that stuff bothers you so much, when it doesn't bother the rest of us, which puts you dangerously close in mind and thought to some pretty toxic groups. That's what's disturbing people, because you beat that drum a lot so I think it's fair to make some assumptions/inferences from that, though I'm trying not to. Like, it's 2019, it's the Trump era, so there's a need to focus on social agendas and making sure marginalized groups are represented when there is a culture and social values war against such things, why do you think this stuff has only come up so strongly in the media since 2015/2016? It's thanks to Trump, and we're trying to counter his rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 47 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: I didn't review a review. SBL asked what I consider fair, and I told him *shrugs* I haven't denied any reviews as being wrong, but I'm not oblivious to seeing a large majority of them talking about everything except the movie itself. At least the Jeremy Jahns review touched on the actual plot and actors while acknowledging the troll bate comments people are giving this flik. And it at least informs me of the movie I'm going to see while not trying to tell me if I need to feel morally okay with seeing it at all... 1 minute ago, IdeaOfEvil said: At the very top of this page (page 9 for me) that's what I asked: at what moment does RT show the fairest score for a movie. How that made me "skate very close to starting an argument" (about something I don't know what's being argued about) is baffling. People want to know what I considered fair, wanted to tell me that I'm reviewing reviewers, and that I don't follow good reviews when all I ever posted was that the reviews from the last week+ have all been hollow crap. Again, I trust reviews from posting forums before I do websites or newspapers, so what am I saying that's so disturbing to people? So for the record... my "Reviewing reviewers" comment wasn't JUST directed at you and it's interesting you took it that way. Folks on this board know how I feel about the whole current reviewing industry including movies AND video games so this whole discussion about which reviews are good vs which ones are bad is very amusing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Just now, Greatoneshere said: It wasn't the question about RT that indicated to me that you're skating close to the argument some users here think you might be making. It's the constant issue with "social agendas", etc. It's weird that stuff bothers you so much, when it doesn't bother the rest of us, which puts you dangerously close in mind and thought to some pretty toxic groups. That's what's disturbing people, because you beat that drum a lot so I think it's fair to make some assumptions/inferences from that, though I'm trying not to. That's an impossible statement, though. I maintained the same thought from 3-4 different people asking me similar questions. So I'm not the one at your door beating a drum in your face when it's actually you others coming to my door where I'm keeping a constant idea. I'm sorry you see it the other way, but people constantly wanting clarifications doesn't equate to the person being asked as being some toxic person if they're staying true to their statements in a non-biased way. I never said the reviews were wrong, but I maintain they're only focusing on social agendas where as I want to know about the movie itself. That doesn't and shouldn't make me the social agenda warrior of toxicity 3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: So for the record... my "Reviewing reviewers" comment wasn't JUST directed at you and it's interesting you took it that way. Folks on this board know how I feel about the whole current reviewing industry including movies AND video games so this whole discussion about which reviews are good vs which ones are bad is very amusing to me. If that's the case, of you talking about more posters than just me, then cool. But so many people are throwing weird posts up against what I'm saying here that I lumped you in with them. And what I replied to your statement remains true - (for the fourth time of me posting this here) The reviews up to now have been hollow crap, and they're so focused on moral ideas rather than the movie itself that I've only seen maybe 3 reviews that were fair to the movie and not to the status quo of sjw'ism. I don't know, I've got chores to do. Maybe I'll come back later tonight and read through everything and see where the line got blurry for people here =) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 25 minutes ago, Pikachu said: I will also add that it's pretty rare for reviews to come out this late for an MCU movie. Usually they appear about 2 to 3 weeks beforehand, but there was some unusual circumstances that pushed the premier of the movie to March 4th. Marvel doesn't lift the embargo until the premier takes place. So I can understand the frustration in only having previews to rely on up to this point. The release/premiere date changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikachu Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Just now, Jason said: The release/premiere date changed? The Oscars took place on February 24th which was one week earlier than last year. That switch forced Marvel to push the premier to March 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: That's an impossible statement, though. I maintained the same thought from 3-4 different people asking me similar questions. So I'm not the one at your door beating a drum in your face when it's actually you others coming to my door where I'm keeping a constant idea. I'm sorry you see it the other way, but people constantly wanting clarifications doesn't equate to the person being asked as being some toxic person if they're staying true to their statements in a non-biased way. I never said the reviews were wrong, but I maintain they're only focusing on social agendas where as I want to know about the movie itself. That doesn't and shouldn't make me the social agenda warrior of toxicity I agree - I said you're not making the argument people think you are making. I said you are skating close to it. And in many threads you complain about social agendas and politics in your media and entertainment (politics has always been in media and entertainment, just some people don't like where it is now going), etc. etc. People are going to start making conclusions from that because the only kinds of people who typically make those arguments come from toxic groups. I don't think you are doing that in this thread, but you do have a weird fixation on some things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Filmmaking is inherently about society, and as such it brushes up against areas like politics, religion, race, sexuality, gender, class, and everything else under the sun. If a review isn’t considering what the film is saying about those things then THAT is hollow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 2 hours ago, sblfilms said: Filmmaking is inherently about society, and as such it brushes up against areas like politics, religion, race, sexuality, gender, class, and everything else under the sun. If a review isn’t considering what the film is saying about those things then THAT is hollow. Hollow is when early copies of The Crow on vhs had statements like "A Triumph! - Playboy" printed on its cover. Hollow is when The Chronicle focused on Michael Keaton being cast as Batman in '89 and not ever once talking about the film or the rest of the actors in its write up. Hollow is when the printed papers used to have an image of a little man sleeping in his chair/sitting upright in his chair/clapping out of his chair as a basis for a movie review without a write up to accompany it. Hollow is when double sentence reviews come out about a female led movie that only talks about the woman as an object of "bad assery in today's society" without actually touching on the movie as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 You say you want movie reviews that just talk about the movie, not anything about what the movie is saying. Hollow, shallow, meaningless, take your pick. You may as well only have a thumbs up/thumbs down if the reviewer isn’t going to offer any actual critique or insight. One of the users here who I really appreciate even when we don’t agree is @TwinIonbecause he (she?) *always* gets into the deeper discussion of filmmaker intent and message. There are several others who do this regularly and I applaud their willingness to go beyond “I liked this/I didn’t like this” which is where most movie watchers begin and end with their analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I haven't stated what kind of reviews I want - I've only stated that the reviews we've seen so far are hollow and pointless. Hell, they might even be considered trolling in a way just because these reviews are giving up statements that would absolutely entice those who get off on such narrow talking points. And even still, I said there were 3 (maybe) reviews that actually did talk about the movie and not just a social skew. But then you take this odd leap into some area where I'm not like TwinIon because he/she has a deeper discussion of filmmaker intent? My God! Show me a review of filmmaker intent and I'd be more than satisfied to write my thoughts on it. But there hasn't been any talk of intent or balanced criticisms about this film (yet). It's just been these weak reviews, me saying they're weak, and posters here questioning me to a point that makes said posters seem like they're defending those reviews. At least @Greatoneshere and @Amazatron posted up reviews that actually provide more content than eye-rolling buzzwords. Maybe I just take reviews seriously Or maybe more seriously than some posters here? I don't know. It's why I always ask for reviews of member users here for what they liked and hated in any given year (going back almost 5 years now). I appreciate reading actual thoughts about a movie more than just someone giving their list (or worse, their list and one hype word to describe "why" for each movie). I wish more people would participate in discussing a movie instead of over-critiquing posters thoughts of a movie - but here we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, IdeaOfEvil said: I haven't stated what kind of reviews I want - I've only stated that the reviews we've seen so far are hollow and pointless. Hell, they might even be considered trolling in a way just because these reviews are giving up statements that would absolutely entice those who get off on such narrow talking points. And even still, I said there were 3 (maybe) reviews that actually did talk about the movie and not just a social skew. But then you take this odd leap into some area where I'm not like TwinIon because he/she has a deeper discussion of filmmaker intent? My God! Show me a review of filmmaker intent and I'd be more than satisfied to write my thoughts on it. But there hasn't been any talk of intent or balanced criticisms about this film (yet). It's just been these weak reviews, me saying they're weak, and posters here questioning me to a point that makes said posters seem like they're defending those reviews. At least @Greatoneshere and @Amazatron posted up reviews that actually provide more content than eye-rolling buzzwords. Maybe I just take reviews seriously Or maybe more seriously than some posters here? I don't know. It's why I always ask for reviews of member users here for what they liked and hated in any given year (going back almost 5 years now). I appreciate reading actual thoughts about a movie more than just someone giving their list (or worse, their list and one hype word to describe "why" for each movie). I wish more people would participate in discussing a movie instead of over-critiquing posters thoughts of a movie - but here we are You should probably do as you suggested and re-read your own posts in this thread to see why somebody could be lead to believe that you yourself want shallow reviews when you dismiss reviews for “social skew”. I and others are left to surmise what you are looking for when you say you do want a, b, and c but don’t want x, y, or z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: You should probably do as you suggested and re-read your own posts in this thread to see why somebody could be lead to believe that you yourself want shallow reviews when you dismiss reviews for “social skew”. I and others are left to surmise what you are looking for when you say you do want a, b, and c but don’t want x, y, or z. Again, I never said what I wanted. But fine - What I want is a, b, c, x, y, z - and all I'm getting is 'z'. And when I point that out, posters here vaguely read my comments before they make a statement about me which makes them automatically defend the 'z' notion on the whole. I can't dumb this fact down any further. But I get that this is the most you and I have ever referred to each other on these forums even though we've been in similar threads before. And outside of you constantly giving a lot of my posts a guillotine rating with no structure or reply as to why in the past, you're leaving me with a sociopathic-vibe here. Maybe I'm somebody whose comments you pass over regularly and you have some odd pre-notion about who I am as a poster already? But here you're pointing out some statement I make, claim it's a statement that makes posters think it's something else than what it is, and then explain it to me in distant comparisons to other users posting abilities and/or incorrect summations. I don't know man... I think this discussion has just got to die. People need to have fun on a free posting board without being criticized every which way in odd/incorrect ways. Maybe I'll bring a screen cap thread back just so we all can get out of this funk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I think in this entire 8 page thread there’s maybe like half a page of actual posts about the movie itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 If you aren’t interested in this particular discussion, we can certainly move on. I personally have found it to be illuminating as to how you and others view the purpose and utility of movie reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Dan Murrell from screen junkies is easily my favorite reviewer. I don’t even agree with him on everything but he legitimately looks at films like a critic and tries to use that to relate it to hardcore and casual moviegoers. His opinion isn’t what’s important though, it’s how he breaks down the elements of the movie and assesses all of those. His biggest issues with Captain Marvel lie in the direction and script/story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Mercury33 said: I think in this entire 8 page thread there’s maybe like half a page of actual posts about the movie itself. I'll be back on Friday to tell everyone whether I liked it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Mercury33 said: I think in this entire 8 page thread there’s maybe like half a page of actual posts about the movie itself. So you condone skipping leg day?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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