Update: PlayStation VR2 to launch on 22 February 2023 (pre-orders begin on November 15) for $549.99/€599.99/£529.99

[BloodyHell]

22 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

Yeah, the concept of VR has been of interest for decades.  Meta’s trying (unsuccessfully) to capitalize on that.

 

On the gaming side, I really don’t think it’s proven itself as the future people initially billed it to be.  Everyone knows the limitations now, there’s less to dream about with it considering.

But we're extremely far from hitting its limitations, we're literally in the opening stages of vr. It's big, bulky, and limited, but it won't be forever.

[crispy4000]

5 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

But we're extremely far from hitting its limitations, we're literally in the opening stages of vr. It's big, bulky, and limited. 

VR games aren’t currently limited by the comfort of the headset.

[TheLeon]

I was so excited to finally get a decent VR setup with the Quest 2, so ready to be immersed in all these unique experiences. But it’s basically just been my Beat Saber machine.

[BloodyHell]

29 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

VR games aren’t currently limited by the comfort of the headset.

They are limited by the tech, but the tech is advancing incredibly fast.

And yes, comfort is absolutely a large part of uptake. 

[stepee]

VR right now is for people to get a glimpse at the future. It’s been teased out for so long because the end game of VR is exciting to people. It’s hanging around in the slightly more mainstream way now as we have made some good steps towards the eventual future, but it’s still a bit off. At least another 10 years before it’s where it really becomes a mass market thing, and I feel like when that happens it will also be merged with AR in the same unit and the two will blend. 

 

If you aren’t that excited you can wait for when your grand children come over and show you now it’s just a pair of sunglasses that transports you into another world, that’s fine, but it isn’t surprising me at all to see things like Quest 2 and even the original psvr do well.

 

Also I do expect for this next stage to go back to a more enthusiast crowd while Quest 2 and/or similar models continue to wet the appetite of the larger public.

 

Just because a lot of the reason vr took off and finally was able to hit good affordable prices was that a lot of what’s here at the moment is based off of existing mobile tech and frankensteining a vr solution out of it. A lot of the new tech is going to be custom built for things needed to push along VR specifically, and this will all cost more at first until there is more mass manufacturing for these components.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

They are limited by the tech, but the tech is advancing incredibly fast.

And yes, comfort is absolutely a large part of uptake. 

 

Building a more comfortable, capable headset doesn't change the fundamental weaknesses of VR as an immersive interface.  Namely, walking in first person being substituted with some other control method divorced from reality, or you being limited by the physical space of a play area.

Your guess is as good as mine if we ever see VR treadmills aimed at addressing this hit mass adoption.  Or if people will generally prefer to play games that way as opposed to sitting their ass on the couch.  Either way, I don't see these headsets & hand controllers doing it by themselves.

 

49 minutes ago, stepee said:

VR right now is for people to get a glimpse at the future. It’s been teased out for so long because the end game of VR is exciting to people. It’s hanging around in the slightly more mainstream way now as we have made some good steps towards the eventual future, but it’s still a bit off. At least another 10 years before it’s where it really becomes a mass market thing, and I feel like when that happens it will also be merged with AR in the same unit and the two will blend.

 

I do question if it really is the future.  It wasn't too long ago that we were being sold 3D televisions with fancy viewing glasses.  The technology works.  No one gives a shit anymore.  We're past its moment.  VR can't fall into that trap if its going to stick around in a meaningful way.  Even motion controls only stayed mainstream in games for as long as they were fashionable.  (ie: When's the last time you swung around a joycon?)

 

One thing's for sure, the pricing of these devices isn't making a good case for VR today.  Neither is Meta's stock falling off a cliff.

[stepee]

54 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Building a more comfortable, capable headset doesn't change the fundamental weaknesses of VR as an immersive interface.  Namely, walking in first person being substituted with some other control method divorced from reality, or you being limited by the physical space of a play area.

Your guess is as good as mine if we ever see VR treadmills aimed at addressing this hit mass adoption.  Or if people will generally prefer to play games that way as opposed to sitting their ass on the couch.  Either way, I don't see these headsets & hand controllers doing it by themselves.

 

 

I do question if it really is the future.  It wasn't too long ago that we were being sold 3D televisions with fancy viewing glasses.  The technology works.  No one gives a shit anymore.  We're past its moment.  VR can't fall into that trap if its going to stick around in a meaningful way.  Even motion controls only stayed mainstream in games for as long as they were fashionable.  (ie: When's the last time you swung around a joycon?)

 

One thing's for sure, the pricing of these devices isn't making a good case for VR today.  Neither is Meta's stock falling off a cliff.

 

Meta has a horrible vision for VR that is going to take away their opportunity to be a market leader unless they course correct from capitalistic hellscape wonderland.

 

3D doesn’t affect my perception of vr’s future in the world. 3D is very much not VR at all and I don’t think has anything to do with it. Closest you could say it’s super super early VR that failed, which, of course. It’s missing almost literally every component of vr. It doesn’t make you feel like you are in another place. 

 

Motion controls, again, are not vr. It’s like if someone invented a steering wheel and it never took off so people said cars would never be popular.

 

It’s also impossible to make a true mass market vr device, as the tech is still being built, so I don’t think the pricing now is a big problem for it’s future. It’s not happening right now regardless. People early adopting will help push things faster though so let’s all keep consuming please.

 

Eventually in human history VR gets to a point where it’s the holodeck and people aren’t going to like not want to go on the holodeck.

 

Beyond that, it’s not really arguing over anything in particular. I do think VR/AR is a big part of the future, you are skeptical, we feel differently about it.

 

I do think this price is not going to go well for Sony though.

[crispy4000]

24 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

3D doesn’t affect my perception of vr’s future in the world. 3D is very much not VR at all and I don’t think has anything to do with it. Closest you could say it’s super super early VR that failed, which, of course. It’s missing almost literally every component of vr. It doesn’t make you feel like you are in another place.

 

Motion controls, again, are not vr. It’s like if someone invented a steering wheel and it never took off so people said cars would never be popular.

 

 

I brought these up more to show how 'the future of' trends could prematurely die or morph into something less exciting.  They aren't directly relatable to VR in terms of user experience.  Different products.

If VR loses traction in the here in now, in its 2nd/3rd generation of consumer products, I think there's a much greater challenge for it to be enticing by the time headsets could be made more affordable.

[stepee]

Well hopefully I’m right because VR is gonna be so cool in the future!

[ShreddieMercury]

Coming from my experience with PSVR and from trying out a few PC-centric headsets here and there, I will say that the technology is amazing.  I've had some really wild experiences with PSVR and have been left awestruck by quite a few games.

 

That said, I still can't foresee that VR will be any closer to more widespread adoption in the near future.  In my experience, its greatest strength is also its greatest weakness: the immersion is so great that it becomes overpowering and disorienting.  Even after all of the logistical complications and headaches caused by setting it up, finding space, and managing the gear are taken care of with future iterations, it is still a big ask to plug in to a digital world in such a way that your senses are completely overwhelmed. 

 

The best I can see is that there is a small but strong market for it, which is great.  I've enjoyed my time with the headset that I have, but I almost never use it anymore because it's proven to be just a step too far.  Modern videogames already demand so much of your time, energy, and patience, that adding a layer of sensory deprivation on top of everything will continue to only appeal to the hardcore enthusiasts, I think.

 

1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 (ie: When's the last time you swung around a joycon?)

 

 

 

We would be living in a better world if the split Wii-mote had been adopted as the standard for control setups.  And despite the quality issues with the joycon, they are still pretty magnificent when games are designed around them, Mario Odyssey being the best example.

[DarkStar189]

I think my original guess was $500. Doesn't surprise me it came in higher in this price climate.  Sony will have to show me they are really committed to this thing before I ever buy it.  I see people everywhere online say how their VR headset is their Beat Saber machine. I'm going to need to see Sony's next 1-2 years worth of VR gaming line up to believe in supporting it.  I feel like a majority of what Sony will be trying to sell is PSVR1 remasters.

[Stickey]

6 hours ago, johnny said:

for sure. but i doubt this sells well. the real question is Sony going to keep supporting this as time goes on to convince people to eventually get one? 

Exclusives, exclusives, exclusives. 

[Stickey]

5 hours ago, TheLeon said:

I was so excited to finally get a decent VR setup with the Quest 2, so ready to be immersed in all these unique experiences. But it’s basically just been my Beat Saber machine.

Give Ragnarock a shot! 

[Paperclyp]

I think VR or something adjacent to it will be a pretty major player at some point in many different use cases. The 3D analogy doesn't hold water IMO - that was always something that seemed forced upon you and was just a gimmicky way to consume media that you already consume. VR can be applied in games, sports, the medical industry, and any number of things, and I think "VR" is bigger than any one company trying to force the tech on people. Like, if all of the companies went belly up trying to make VR a viable business, sometime in the future someone is going to try again because the potential is so great. 

 

As for this set, it looks like a pretty damn good deal to me for what you're getting. I just don't know if the library will be there for me to pull the trigger. 

[JPDunks4]

My biggest issue with VR is I can only do it in very short bursts, it feels so isolating at times being cut off from all other senses like that.

 

I think they need to have some big announcement about last gen games being updated for Free for this headset or it's gonna have a hard time initially selling.  The economy is going to be in a worse place when this launches, and it's more pricey in other countries.

 

Also, need to see what they charge for their games.  Is the new Horizon VR game going to be $70?

[Dre801]

I'll probably not bother.  VR is something that I still have only a very mild, casual interest in.  550 is a lot to drop on something that I probably won't use very often.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

I think VR or something adjacent to it will be a pretty major player at some point in many different use cases. The 3D analogy doesn't hold water IMO - that was always something that seemed forced upon you and was just a gimmicky way to consume media that you already consume.

It's one thing to shoehorn some gimmick into an existing thing.  The larger issue with VR at current is that it isn't a great fit for modern game design.  That could also be its strength, if enough killer apps stuck to what's good about VR interfaces versus what's not.  That's proved to be a tough nut to crack.

 

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

VR can be applied in games, sports, the medical industry, and any number of things, and I think "VR" is bigger than any one company trying to force the tech on people. Like, if all of the companies went belly up trying to make VR a viable business, sometime in the future someone is going to try again because the potential is so great.

 

Perhaps.  I could see its enterprise use in simulation/training/artistic environments for some fields.  And of course, gaming, while its making devs money.  But the effort Meta has gone to try and portray it as a mainstream productivity and hangout tool is pretty far reaching at this point, IMO.

[Paperclyp]

8 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

It's one thing to shoehorn some gimmick into an existing thing.  The larger issue with VR at current is that it isn't a great fit for modern game design.  That could also be its strength, if enough killer apps stuck to what's good about VR interfaces versus what's not.  That's proved to be a tough nut to crack.

 

 

Perhaps.  I could see its enterprise use in simulation/training/artistic environments for some fields.  And of course, gaming, while its making devs money.  But the effort Meta has gone to try and portray it as a mainstream productivity and hangout tool is pretty far reaching at this point, IMO.

The best way to use VR certainly isn’t to take an existing game and just make it VR, but often times that actually does work, and there are also enough games built for it specifically and are incredible that I’m not worried about that. 
 

I wouldn’t try to project the future of anything based off what meta has tried to do with it. VR court side nba games is already a thing though, and if they get that down to where it’s quality I will sprint to the store to buy a set. It’s being used in physical therapy already. Medical training software potential is big (surgeon simulator but for real this time). All sorts of stuff. But how close are we to any of that stuff really being practical on a large scale? I have no idea, I’m just trying to say 3D ain’t coming back whereas eventually VR will be a major part of our lives…

 

Unless society collapses first.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Paperclyp said:

The best way to use the Wiimote certainly isn’t to take an existing game and just make it motion/pointer enabled, but often times that actually does work, and there are also enough games built for it specifically and are incredible that I’m not worried about that.

My edits to your statement reflect my skepticm at the moment. 

 

I don’t believe VR in the gaming space has convinced us yet, in its applications, that it’s something essential enough to have longevity.  At least not in the way it’s biggest proponents would want or may even expect.

 

It feels like we’ve been down this road before to me, and we’re due for a pullback.

[Paperclyp]

8 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

My edits to your statement reflect my skepticm at the moment. 

 

I don’t believe VR in the gaming space has convinced us yet, in its applications, that it’s something essential enough to have longevity.  At least not in the way it’s biggest proponents would want or may even expect.

 

It feels like we’ve been down this road before to me, and we’re due for a pullback.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. 
 

i think you’re selling the vr experience very short to compare it to the Wii mote

[crispy4000]

18 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

We’ll have to agree to disagree. 
 

i think you’re selling the vr experience very short to compare it to the Wii mote

 

I think the capability to do cool things with VR is much greater, in fairness.  It's already proven that.  But I question its momentum with gaming, here in 2022.  And the price of PSVR2 surely doesn't help.

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I think the capability to do cool this with VR is much greater, in fairness.  I question the momentum for gaming, here in 2022.  And the price of PSVR2 surely doesn't help.

 

I would expect Sony's expectations are hopefully in check with it. My impression is that considering the tech inside the headset, it's actually a great deal just looking at it purely from a this is what you get for the hardware standpoint. But that is mostly irrelevant outside of the few people who follow and understand what's in that machine and what it technically should cost relative to other sets. 

 

I don't really disagree with the skepticism short term at all. It'll likely be something niche. All I'm saying is the tech in the long run, I expect companies to continue to develop it and eventually it will become very widespread in its use across many industries. 

[XxEvil AshxX]

For $550 bucks it should be able to play PSVR1 games.

[TwinIon]

I've been bullish on VR since I bought a DK2, but I've been dissapointed in how slowly the tech has evolved. Once VR tech caught up to phones, it largely stopped progressing. It's an unfortunate chicken and egg problem, since phones aren't going to push display tech much more, but VR doesn't sell at the scale needed to justify the investments that I think the tech needs to be really great.

 

I was also just hoping that there would be some technical solution to the discomfort issue, but there doesn't seem to be anything in sight quite yet. It really boxes VR into specific types of games when you know that a huge portion of the audience simply can't touch a game with smooth movement. Teleporting is an ok solution, but I wouldn't want to play Skyrim or Fallout teleporting everywhere, it's just strange. I think that if you could solve that issue then a ton of options would open up in VR gaming and we'd see adoption increase dramatically.

 

Until then, I think there will still be some very worthwhile experiences in VR, and the PSVR2 looks to be the best hope for high end VR games in the near future. $550 feels pretty steep when the library will be so limited. I specifically avoided the PSVR because I expected the successor to be far better and still play all the old games. Hopefully they'll get ported over in short order and maybe even updated to utilized the new controllers and the PS5's horepower.

 

I'll get one eventually, but I may wait longer than I first expected.

[BloodyHell]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:38 AM, crispy4000 said:

It's one thing to shoehorn some gimmick into an existing thing.  The larger issue with VR at current is that it isn't a great fit for modern game design.  That could also be its strength, if enough killer apps stuck to what's good about VR interfaces versus what's not.  That's proved to be a tough nut to crack.

 

 

Perhaps.  I could see its enterprise use in simulation/training/artistic environments for some fields.  And of course, gaming, while its making devs money.  But the effort Meta has gone to try and portray it as a mainstream productivity and hangout tool is pretty far reaching at this point, IMO.

I mean, saying  vr isn't a fit for current game design is completely false, and ignores the fantastic vr games that arr coming out at a steadily increasing pace. HL: Alex was on my Goty list that year. Call of the Mountain looks incredible. VR gaming is exactly what it should be, fun.

 

Im not saying it doesn't have a long way to go for widespread adoption, but VR is not going away. 

[crispy4000]

24 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

I mean, saying  vr isn't a fit for current game design is completely false, and ignores the fantastic vr games that arr coming out at a steadily increasing pace. HL: Alex was on my Goty list that year. Call of the Mountain looks incredible. VR gaming is exactly what it should be, fun.

 

Im not saying it doesn't have a long way to go for widespread adoption, but VR is not going away. 

 

I'd like to play HL: Alex one day to experience it.  I'm sure it's fantastic.  But this:

 

Spoiler

• Blink (default) - Teleport to destinations with a brief screen fade. The most comfortable movement type.
• Shift - Teleport to destinations with a fast linear movement.
• Continuous - Move continuously based on your head orientation.
• Continuous Hand - Move continuously based on hand orientation.

Let's dive into each one with a bit more detail.

Blink

The default Blink movement type is recommended for players who get motion sickness from VR. It works by having you use the controller to point at where you want to "teleport" to, and blinking you there with a brief, but not jarring fade-out and fade-in. The "blinking" is what reduces the motion sickness, by removing the element of "motion" from traversal. This is becoming standard in a lot of VR adventure games.

With the Blink movement option, you can also rotate your orientation before you skip to a new destination, meaning you can quickly warp behind an enemy and turn to face them in a single move that doesn't actually simulate or depict the motion of turning. You can also make small adjustments to your position with the flick of a joystick, which you can customize via your in-game preferences. Scroll to the section after this one for more on snap turning.

Blink is the mode we recommend for the average player just starting out, those who are new to VR, and those who are prone to motion sickness.

Shift

Shift is similar to Blink, only instead of teleporting with a fade, it zooms you over to your destination. The rapid simulated motion may be jarring and create a sense of vertigo for inexperienced players or those with a sensitivity to it, so be careful.

Continuous

Continuous and Continuous Hand are both the closest movement type to conventional first-person video games. Rather than a teleport, it's a continuous motion. You push your controller's joystick forward to move and turn your head in the direction you want to move. This might be the most jarring for players who are prone to motion sickness or not accustomed to VR, but experienced VR players sometimes refer to this type as the most "immersive."

Continuous Hand

Like Continuous motion, Continuous Hand is a smooth, continuous motion controlled by one of your controller's joysticks. What makes it different from the standard Continuous mode is you use your hand instead of your head to point in the direction you want to move. That means you can push forward on the joystick to move forward, and still look around without changing direction.

If you play around with controls, you can combine and use the Blink and Continuous movement styles at any time.

Controller Turning Options

A new Half-Life: Alyx update has added an additional controller turning option and renamed quick turn to snap turn. See more details about each option below.

Snap Turn (Previously Called Quick Turn)

Snap turn allows you to rotate the direction you're facing in set angles, without a linear motion between the two points. You can modify the snap turn angle in the options menu in 15 degree increments:

• 15 degrees
• 30 degrees
• 45 degrees
• 60 degrees
• 75 degrees
• 90 degrees

Snap turning is great if you need to rotate just slightly and can't or don't want to physically do so.

Continuous Turn

The newly added continuous turn lets you use the controller to rotate the direction you're facing in a smooth, unbroken motion. If you select this option, you can adjust the turning speed from 1 to 100.

 

Strikes me as trying to fit a large square peg in a small round hole.  Its the sort of thing that's turned me off from the VR experiences I've had so far.  It's good to have control options, and I've enjoyed games with a contrived learning curve before, so maybe I'm being a hypocrite here.  But it's not where VR should strive to go, IMO.

 

I know there's some controversy about Call of the Mountain being more rail guided and not using teleporting (if I have that right?), but I'd see it as a good thing.

[Brian]

Register to Pre-order PS VR2 | Get it first direct from PlayStation

WWW.PLAYSTATION.COM

---

Register with your PSN ID to for an invitation to pre-order PlayStation VR2, exclusively from direct.playstation.com.

 

[DarkStar189]

I was thinking again how much of a blow it is that PSVR1 games won't be compatible.  I quickly searched to see if any games were confirmed to get an update. pushsquare.com had an article that was like "Here is the full list of games confirmed to get a patch". I'm not even linking to it because it turned out to be 3 games lol. Damn click bait.

Pistol Whip

The Light Brigade

Zenith: The Last City

 

Has there been any word yet from developers if its an impossible task to bring the games forward? They would surely have to charge something to do it. I wonder if we will see smaller upgrade fees or a bunch of re-releases coming out at full price.

[Keyser_Soze]

Pre-order emails are being sent out already. Check your email if you signed up!

[BloodyHell]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:08 PM, crispy4000 said:

 

I'd like to play HL: Alex one day to experience it.  I'm sure it's fantastic.  But this:

 

  Hide contents

• Blink (default) - Teleport to destinations with a brief screen fade. The most comfortable movement type.
• Shift - Teleport to destinations with a fast linear movement.
• Continuous - Move continuously based on your head orientation.
• Continuous Hand - Move continuously based on hand orientation.

Let's dive into each one with a bit more detail.

Blink

The default Blink movement type is recommended for players who get motion sickness from VR. It works by having you use the controller to point at where you want to "teleport" to, and blinking you there with a brief, but not jarring fade-out and fade-in. The "blinking" is what reduces the motion sickness, by removing the element of "motion" from traversal. This is becoming standard in a lot of VR adventure games.

With the Blink movement option, you can also rotate your orientation before you skip to a new destination, meaning you can quickly warp behind an enemy and turn to face them in a single move that doesn't actually simulate or depict the motion of turning. You can also make small adjustments to your position with the flick of a joystick, which you can customize via your in-game preferences. Scroll to the section after this one for more on snap turning.

Blink is the mode we recommend for the average player just starting out, those who are new to VR, and those who are prone to motion sickness.

Shift

Shift is similar to Blink, only instead of teleporting with a fade, it zooms you over to your destination. The rapid simulated motion may be jarring and create a sense of vertigo for inexperienced players or those with a sensitivity to it, so be careful.

Continuous

Continuous and Continuous Hand are both the closest movement type to conventional first-person video games. Rather than a teleport, it's a continuous motion. You push your controller's joystick forward to move and turn your head in the direction you want to move. This might be the most jarring for players who are prone to motion sickness or not accustomed to VR, but experienced VR players sometimes refer to this type as the most "immersive."

Continuous Hand

Like Continuous motion, Continuous Hand is a smooth, continuous motion controlled by one of your controller's joysticks. What makes it different from the standard Continuous mode is you use your hand instead of your head to point in the direction you want to move. That means you can push forward on the joystick to move forward, and still look around without changing direction.

If you play around with controls, you can combine and use the Blink and Continuous movement styles at any time.

Controller Turning Options

A new Half-Life: Alyx update has added an additional controller turning option and renamed quick turn to snap turn. See more details about each option below.

Snap Turn (Previously Called Quick Turn)

Snap turn allows you to rotate the direction you're facing in set angles, without a linear motion between the two points. You can modify the snap turn angle in the options menu in 15 degree increments:

• 15 degrees
• 30 degrees
• 45 degrees
• 60 degrees
• 75 degrees
• 90 degrees

Snap turning is great if you need to rotate just slightly and can't or don't want to physically do so.

Continuous Turn

The newly added continuous turn lets you use the controller to rotate the direction you're facing in a smooth, unbroken motion. If you select this option, you can adjust the turning speed from 1 to 100.

 

Strikes me as trying to fit a large square peg in a small round hole.  Its the sort of thing that's turned me off from the VR experiences I've had so far.  It's good to have control options, and I've enjoyed games with a contrived learning curve before, so maybe I'm being a hypocrite here.  But it's not where VR should strive to go, IMO.

 

I know there's some controversy about Call of the Mountain being more rail guided and not using teleporting (if I have that right?), but I'd see it as a good thing.

You clearly didn't ay it, because it's brilliant.

[stepee]

I got the email though I didn’t ask for one and I think I’m gonna actually pass. Not that I won’t get one but I don’t see needing this right away, I’m undecided if it’s worth it for exclusives without BC or an Astrobot at launch. Maybe I end up bored and picking one up at launch but I’m almost more interested in the proto AR thing @Rev got for $550 than this right now.

[Brian]

 

[Spork3245]

Not sure if it's in that video, but there's also a docking station, but, I find it odd that it's only for the controllers and doesn't have a stand/hanger for the headset. I get that there's no reason to charge the headset since it's not wireless, but, you'd think it'd have a "spot" for it  

[Keyser_Soze]

8 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

Not sure if it's in that video, but there's also a docking station, but, I find it odd that it's only for the controllers and doesn't have a stand/hanger for the headset. I get that there's no reason to charge the headset since it's not wireless, but, you'd think it'd have a "spot" for it  

 

That will be $49.99 extra plz

 

[Brian]