Buffalo white supremacist terrorist attack update: authorities investigating whether a retired federal agent had advance knowledge of plan

[Guest]

I think what you quoted @Commissar SFLUFANreflects the feelings of a lot Black folks. Oddly enough, some of my Black Republican friends and family actually cite exactly the same idea that the Dems never actually do anything for Black people as a reason they bailed on the party.

 

That isn’t to say they believe the GOP votes in the general interest of Black people, but that there is no pretense that they do and since these are upper middle class Black people they simply don’t have the same political needs as less fortunate Black people do.

 

So if the party that is ostensibly for them won’t do anything to better the circumstances of Black people when they have the political power to do so, they will at least go with the party which personally benefits them given their economic situation.

 

A Democratic Party that consistently put into action the policies of their platform would be so much stronger than the one we actually get that abandons the issues most important to the average Black person in America.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

@skillzdadirecta @sblfilms

 

When asked about a "solution", the same poster cogently responded with this:

 

Quote

Divest from the interests of white folks as much as possible and focus on bolstering and maintaining your own local communities instead. There's plenty of work to be done that directly and materially helps out BIPOC folks, and if we've got time to maintain Era accounts, we got time to give a little bit every week. Also, we need to refocus on local and small elections. Even the neighborhood dogcatcher should be someone sympathetic to our interests.

 

And when told by a white poster about how much his vote mattered, this was his justifiably scathing response:

 

Quote

I wouldn't be surprised if the Black user in question happened to be me because let me tell you how much whites like telling me "my vote matters" while being unable to explain why Black wealth inequality has increased, why our communities are plagued with unhealthier food and harsher chemicals than they were in the past, why more of us are incarcerated than were enslaved, and just in general by most metrics we are now worse off since we've been given the right to vote.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

7 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Also, we need to refocus on local and small elections. Even the neighborhood dogcatcher should be someone sympathetic to our interests.

 

11 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

A Democratic Party that consistently put into action the policies of their platform would be so much stronger than the one we actually get that abandons the issues most important to the average Black person in America.

And why is the Democratic party, or ANY party unable to do so in this country? 

[stepee]

damn Wade, I feel like I owe you something for scrubbing through off topic era to find the good post

[Guest]

 Even though the deck is stacked against Black communities, there certainly are things that could be done to improve things for the average community member and a lot of that starts with Black money staying put. It doesn’t get talked about much in the general population, but Black folks have seen it a million times. A really talented young Black person graduates high school, goes to college, gets a good job, and then never sets foot again in the old neighborhood, instead choosing to live in white areas because the schools are better, or whatever else.

 

We actually know the path to improving things like schools, crime, and jobs. It happens when the wealth of a community gets reinvested in the community. There really is no other way, but unfortunately the allure of the whiter pastures is strong. You see the same in Hispanic communities as well. I think the only ethnic minority groups you tend to see reinvest strongly in their local communities tend to be Asians and some Africans (Nigerians in particular have very strong social bonding that helps keep money hyper local)

 

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

And why is the Democratic party, or ANY party unable to do so in this country? 

They don’t actually care. It’s the same thing with the correct criticism of Trump border policy by Dem leaders followed directly with…basically the same things. And Biden could have changed the treatment of migrants on DAY ONE if it were a real priority.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

They don’t actually care. It’s the same thing with the correct criticism of Trump border policy by Dem leaders followed directly with…basically the same things. And Biden could have changed the treatment of migrants on DAY ONE if it were a real priority.

OR... they know that there's a limit and political price to be paid in this country if there's a perception of "giving" minorities anything. It's why welfare is only bad when it's going to black and brown people.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

26 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 Even though the deck is stacked against Black communities, there certainly are things that could be done to improve things for the average community member and a lot of that starts with Black money staying put. It doesn’t get talked about much in the general population, but Black folks have seen it a million times. A really talented young Black person graduates high school, goes to college, gets a good job, and then never sets foot again in the old neighborhood, instead choosing to live in white areas because the schools are better, or whatever else.

 

We actually know the path to improving things like schools, crime, and jobs. It happens when the wealth of a community gets reinvested in the community. There really is no other way, but unfortunately the allure of the whiter pastures is strong. You see the same in Hispanic communities as well. I think the only ethnic minority groups you tend to see reinvest strongly in their local communities tend to be Asians and some Africans (Nigerians in particular have very strong social bonding that helps keep money hyper local)

 

They don’t actually care. It’s the same thing with the correct criticism of Trump border policy by Dem leaders followed directly with…basically the same things. And Biden could have changed the treatment of migrants on DAY ONE if it were a real priority.

Similar phenomena in Appalachia with the whites. 
 

but that’s educational self sorting and polarization for you. It’s happening in all western countries! (Minus Northern Ireland)

 

that’s about all I have to really add here

[Air_Delivery]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'm going to share this from an African-American poster on ResetERA that I thought was worth posting here and one that I'm genuinely interested in hearing from the perspective of our African-American members upon

 

@skillzdadirecta

@sblfilms

@Air_Delivery (apologies - I just seem to recall that you're African-American though I could be misremembering!)

 

 

Im not but thanks for having me in mind! 

[Kal-El814]

46 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

OR... they know that there's a limit and political price to be paid in this country if there's a perception of "giving" minorities anything. It's why welfare is only bad when it's going to black and brown people.

 

I think this has a lot to do with it. I suspect there's an implicit understanding that the Democratic party needs black votes but it cannot be seen as a black (or brown or Asian and so on) party, because of a tweet in the thread @Commissar SFLUFAN posted earlier:

 

 

 

[SaysWho?]

If this was shared, I’m stupid and missed it, but these are damning words from Liz.

 

 

[Ominous]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

 Even though the deck is stacked against Black communities, there certainly are things that could be done to improve things for the average community member and a lot of that starts with Black money staying put. It doesn’t get talked about much in the general population, but Black folks have seen it a million times. A really talented young Black person graduates high school, goes to college, gets a good job, and then never sets foot again in the old neighborhood, instead choosing to live in white areas because the schools are better, or whatever else.

 

 

That's a normal human thing. 

 

I moved the fuck out of whitetrashville as soon as I could afford to buy a house in a safer community with better schools. It's a lot easier to move to a better area than try and change the entire community around you. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ominous said:

 

That's a normal human thing. 

 

I moved the fuck out of whitetrashville as soon as I could afford to buy a house in a safer community with better schools. It's a lot easier to move to a better area than try and change the entire community around you. 

It is understandable, my dad bailed on the community he grew up in to start a family in a safer place. He lived in an area that pretty immediately got devastated by the crack epidemic in the 80s when my brothers and I were born, so I get it.

 

But when the government has no interest in actually improving things, the community has to do it themselves and that means reversing the trends of migration out of the community. It is a huge reason why there are ethnic groups that are able to grow their communal wealth. These groups tend to pitch in their funds to buy things like c-stores where they can build a profitable venture and own real estate that the business pays the note on.

 

But it requires people sacrificing their economic and social benefit for others. That is a tall ask.

[Keyser_Soze]

6 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'm going to share this from an African-American poster on ResetERA that I thought was worth posting here and one that I'm genuinely interested in hearing from the perspective of our African-American members upon

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

I TOTALLY forgot that you're African-American!  My most sincere apologies! 

 

I think I mixed you up with @Air_Delivery 

[Kal-El814]

33 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I TOTALLY forgot that you're African-American!  My most sincere apologies! 

 

I think I mixed you up with @Air_Delivery 

All posters with underscores in their usernames look the same to you?
 

 

Also honest question for the group… is “African-American” a term used by young black people? I feel like I hear black used almost exclusively but I have no idea if it’s just a sampling thing or what I happen to notice. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

All posters with underscores in their usernames look the same to you?
 

 

Also honest question for the group… is “African-American” a term used by young black people? I feel like I hear black used almost exclusively but I have no idea if it’s just a sampling thing or what I happen to notice. 

Not a single person in my family uses the term AA. It’s always Black. My Granny in particular has really hated the term AA because her view is “Our family has been in America longer than most people who just get to be called Americans.”

[Keyser_Soze]

I always say black too. African American is a stupid term that should be applied to people who are actually from Africa.

Like imagine Charlize Theron has a kid in America, then that would be an African American and people would have their minds blown!

[mclumber1]

22 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I always say black too. African American is a stupid term that should be applied to people who are actually from Africa.

Like imagine Charlize Theron has a kid in America, then that would be an African American and people would have their minds blown!

 

America's favorite African American:

[Kal-El814]

25 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I always say black too. African American is a stupid term that should be applied to people who are actually from Africa.

Like imagine Charlize Theron has a kid in America, then that would be an African American and people would have their minds blown!

Elon Musk: the ultimate African American

 

Edit - Ninja’d

[SaysWho?]

The person SFLUFAN quoted is Neph, who's an admin there who has such animosity and contempt for much of the board she monitors. She's also talked down to black people who don't agree with her three course menu that she offers. Ex: I remember one user saying that many on Reset conflate being pro-black with being anti-white. When a former mod there mocked him for white fragility, the guy said, "But I'm black," and she said something like that doesn't mean you have to rep for white people.

 

It was weird. I feel black progressives are dismissed much more there. The quoted post is one of her more well-reasoned ones.

 

6 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Not a single person in my family uses the term AA. It’s always Black. My Granny in particular has really hated the term AA because her view is “Our family has been in America longer than most people who just get to be called Americans.”

 

That explains why my last news director used to just use Americans.

[MarSolo]

 

[stepee]

11 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I TOTALLY forgot that you're African-American!  My most sincere apologies! 

 

I think I mixed you up with @Air_Delivery 

 

ya man your ethnic tracking here is SHIT

[stepee]

1 hour ago, MarSolo said:

 

 

man all those pictures are nightmare fuel but holy shit the top left one is some horror movie shit

[TheLeon]

41 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

ya man your ethnic tracking here is SHIT

He’s too focused on maintaining his list of Jews, everything else is secondary. 

[BuckFly]

I'll state what I stated in my other, more Buffalo centric boards.

 

In a situation where you feel utterly powerless in the face of such tragedy and evil something as simple as just giving not only makes you feel like you did at least a little something for those in need, but more so food matters in this situation…hell, it matters in all situations.

 

We gave to the BCF (Buffalo Community Fridge) Sunday. This isn’t a brag.  This is a plea.

[johnny]

14 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

 

Also honest question for the group… is “African-American” a term used by young black people? I feel like I hear black used almost exclusively but I have no idea if it’s just a sampling thing or what I happen to notice. 

As a teacher, black seems to be more common than African American. Some black people in the united states don't really identify as "African-American" and instead identify more specific with a different country like Nigeria, Kenya, Jamaica, etc. Or they just don't care much for the term because they see themselves as black and/or AA as the political term for black people. I have had some students say that they would prefer non-black teachers use the term African American when talking about AA issues because it feels less odd.

 

This is just what I've picked up on in conversations with black students about what they prefer and a few of my friends. Def not an authority on it lol. 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

On 5/16/2022 at 2:05 PM, brucoe said:

There's a definite right-wing gamer community that is online that I run into a lot, especially when it comes to following gamers who actually review games. What I discovered a few years ago is that because of Youtube's algorithms, if you follow any of these gamer reviewers who also have a right-wing presence with a lot of their other videos (even if it's a completely different channel on Youtube), you start getting recommended a lot of right-wing hatred stuff (from the manosphere to straight out Let's Go Branden content). So, I'm not surprised there's a connection. I just don't think it's as obvious as the media tries to make it out to be ("doom leads to violence" type of reports).

 

On 5/16/2022 at 2:56 PM, mclumber1 said:

Monetization is so tied to the "algorithm" now that anything short of an actual law that addresses these two linked issues will be like pissing into the wind.  Facebook is unlikely to revert to old ways of making money, simply because their algorithm makes them so much money. 

 

I've probably said all this before, but I think this is the big issue, rather than 'violent video games'.

 

It's not just YouTube algorithms.  It's the algorithms used by Big Data, which are predicated on the Big Data 'advertising business model'.  They are designed by Ph.D's at Stanford, Berkeley and other tech hubs to maximize 'engagement'--which mostly amounts to clicks, likes, etc.--by exposing people to certain kinds of content.  And because they don't have a great way to measure this beyond clicks, they are geared towards exposing people to content that gets the most clicks *in the short run*.  And in the short run, what gets people to click the quickest and in the greatest quantity is content that makes them angry and/or anxious and/or depressed.  Positive emotions take longer to build up--i.e., it takes awhile to build trust, even though trust can be lost very quickly--even though they can, on the whole, be more powerful.

 

On any one person, the algorithms' effect is usually small, but it is compounding; so spread out over an entire society, it will create larger and larger numbers of people who are paranoid, cranky, and angry, to a greater and greater degree.  Meaning we'll get more people like this Buffalo psycho white supremacist.

 

Regulation alone isn't going to solve the problem; what's needed to solve it is a change in the Big Data business model, i.e., the model wherein A.) people give their data to Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. for free in exchange for using a 'free' platform, and then B.) Big Data monetizes it by selling it to advertisers, who pay to influence people's behavior.  If this were changed so that people were *paid for the data they create*,  Big Data would be less incentivized to stoke negative emotions to generate clicks and re-incentivized to find ways to invest in the production of the highest quality data.  And because they'd need to pay for this data, we wouldn't have the exacerbations of wealth inequality that the Big Data 'advertising model' has stimulated.  Of course, that means in turn consumers would probably also be paying for services like Facebook--but it's a small price to pay for a sane society and a middle class.

 

I can see why initially this might seem impossible, but I can envision it happening via some combination of strengthened personal data rights, and something like 'data unions', or organizations that will bargain with Big Data to set the price of the data they will use.  I don't see the latter as any more impossible than labor unions were in the 19th and early 20th century.

[stepee]

23 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

 

 

I've probably said all this before, but I think this is the big issue, rather than 'violent video games'.

 

It's not just YouTube algorithms.  It's the algorithms used by Big Data, which are predicated on the Big Data 'advertising business model'.  They are designed by Ph.D's at Stanford, Berkeley and other tech hubs to maximize 'engagement'--which mostly amounts to clicks, likes, etc.--by exposing people to certain kinds of content.  And because they don't have a great way to measure this beyond clicks, they are geared towards exposing people to content that gets the most clicks *in the short run*.  And in the short run, what gets people to click the quickest and in the greatest quantity is content that makes them angry and/or anxious and/or depressed.  Positive emotions take longer to build up--i.e., it takes awhile to build trust, even though trust can be lost very quickly--even though they can, on the whole, be more powerful.

 

On any one person, the algorithms' effect is usually small, but it is compounding; so spread out over an entire society, it will create larger and larger numbers of people who are paranoid, cranky, and angry, to a greater and greater degree.  Meaning we'll get more people like this Buffalo psycho white supremacist.

 

Regulation alone isn't going to solve the problem; what's needed to solve it is a change in the Big Data business model, i.e., the model wherein A.) people give their data to Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. for free in exchange for using a 'free' platform, and then B.) Big Data monetizes it by selling it to advertisers, who pay to influence people's behavior.  If this were changed so that people were *paid for the data they create*,  Big Data would be less incentivized to stoke negative emotions to generate clicks and re-incentivized to find ways to invest in the production of the highest quality data.  And because they'd need to pay for this data, we wouldn't have the exacerbations of wealth inequality that the Big Data 'advertising model' has stimulated.  Of course, that means in turn consumers would probably also be paying for services like Facebook--but it's a small price to pay for a sane society and a middle class.

 

I can see why initially this might seem impossible, but I can envision it happening via some combination of strengthened personal data rights, and something like 'data unions', or organizations that will bargain with Big Data to set the price of the data they will use.  I don't see the latter as any more impossible than labor unions were in the 19th and early 20th century.

 

100%, it’s really at the root of so many modern day problems/escalations, people are essentially being targeted in a way that is almost like cyber warfare on mental health.

 

I always turn off news and interests and the default home pages news feeds when setting up work pcs because even a new device out of the box is getting ready to start algorithm-ing you.

 

I’m currently in a battle with my Google homepage to get it to not feed me right wing propaganda and you really have to manually fight against it reporting pages and such to try to keep it away from you. Sucks because it works well for showing me gadget news I like.

[unogueen]

Can't blame this on 'content'. America is a nation set out by extremists and cemented by generals. Peace is not a common language. Abuse has ripples. Anyone who has ever faced this knows that there is no recovery from being demeaned to such a state. And to the extent that chattel slavery has caused. there hasn't been an honest word or gesture.

[Massdriver]

4 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

 

 

I've probably said all this before, but I think this is the big issue, rather than 'violent video games'.

 

It's not just YouTube algorithms.  It's the algorithms used by Big Data, which are predicated on the Big Data 'advertising business model'.  They are designed by Ph.D's at Stanford, Berkeley and other tech hubs to maximize 'engagement'--which mostly amounts to clicks, likes, etc.--by exposing people to certain kinds of content.  And because they don't have a great way to measure this beyond clicks, they are geared towards exposing people to content that gets the most clicks *in the short run*.  And in the short run, what gets people to click the quickest and in the greatest quantity is content that makes them angry and/or anxious and/or depressed.  Positive emotions take longer to build up--i.e., it takes awhile to build trust, even though trust can be lost very quickly--even though they can, on the whole, be more powerful.

 

On any one person, the algorithms' effect is usually small, but it is compounding; so spread out over an entire society, it will create larger and larger numbers of people who are paranoid, cranky, and angry, to a greater and greater degree.  Meaning we'll get more people like this Buffalo psycho white supremacist.

 

Regulation alone isn't going to solve the problem; what's needed to solve it is a change in the Big Data business model, i.e., the model wherein A.) people give their data to Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc. for free in exchange for using a 'free' platform, and then B.) Big Data monetizes it by selling it to advertisers, who pay to influence people's behavior.  If this were changed so that people were *paid for the data they create*,  Big Data would be less incentivized to stoke negative emotions to generate clicks and re-incentivized to find ways to invest in the production of the highest quality data.  And because they'd need to pay for this data, we wouldn't have the exacerbations of wealth inequality that the Big Data 'advertising model' has stimulated.  Of course, that means in turn consumers would probably also be paying for services like Facebook--but it's a small price to pay for a sane society and a middle class.

 

I can see why initially this might seem impossible, but I can envision it happening via some combination of strengthened personal data rights, and something like 'data unions', or organizations that will bargain with Big Data to set the price of the data they will use.  I don't see the latter as any more impossible than labor unions were in the 19th and early 20th century.

I used to think that your ideas on this were too radical and wouldn’t work, but I’m 100% on board now. This is the way and it needs to happen somehow. 

[SoberChef]

On 5/16/2022 at 8:27 AM, SaysWho? said:

 

 

To be fair, the only thing I miss about the pandemic is that we had little to no mass shootings for such a long stretch of time, it was quite peaceful in that sense.

 

12 hours ago, MarSolo said:

 

THIS is frightening AF! Like legit, strikes me as it's own form of religious indoctrination.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

I used to think that your ideas on this were too radical and wouldn’t work, but I’m 100% on board now. This is the way and it needs to happen somehow. 

I think it's the kind of thing where the outcome sounds radical when first described, but is actually achievable via incrementalist reforms and some authentic human innovation.

 

At an advanced stage, I can envision a economic situation in which people receive something akin to royalty 'nanopayments' for the data they have created, and that these payments will compound over a lifetime into a livable, middle class income.  Although if it occurs there could be some frictional awkwardness in the arrangements--it might be something that isn't perfect but 'works well enough'.  Some organic inventiveness would be required by people to get it to work, probably.  

 

But this would also be acceptable to a broad majority running across the center-left and the center-right, in that both groups could begrudgingly agree that a society that lacks a middle class is not sustainable in the long term without a totalitarian state.

 

At the end of the day, that's what this is mostly about.  From a certain perspective, that's sort of what democracy can be boiled down to--warding off totalitarianism using the buffer of a middle class.

[Keyser_Soze]

Back on the subject of African Americans. I have this shirt. I'm not sure how I got it, must be from my aunt or something but in Delaware they have an Afro-American Hall of Fame. So not even Black people can get it right!

 

DAASHOF - Delaware Afro-American Hall of Fame, Inc. - Welcome!

WWW.DAASHOF.ORG

 

@Kal-El814

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

9 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

At an advanced stage, I can envision a economic situation in which people receive something akin to royalty 'nanopayments' for the data they have created, and that these payments will compound over a lifetime into a livable, middle class income.  Although if it occurs there could be some frictional awkwardness in the arrangements--it might be something that isn't perfect but 'works well enough'.  Some organic inventiveness would be required by people to get it to work, probably.  

How does that math add up when the value of a given user is only a couple hundred dollars to the biggest companies

[skillzdadirecta]

Buffalo suspect's posts about attack plans could be seen online 30 minutes before mass shooting | CNN

WWW.CNN.COM

---

Thirty minutes before an 18-year-old White man allegedly carried out a racist mass shooting Saturday at a supermarket in a mostly Black enclave of Buffalo, New York, he revealed his monthslong plot to some on social media.

 

He invited people to a private Discord server and showed his detailed plans to them. NOT ONE of them alerted Law Enforcement. This could have been prevented