GW Reminds People That Space Nazis Are Not Role Models

[Kal-El814]

So for those that don’t know there’s been a lot of chatter recently about cleaning up the tabletop gaming space as it is traditionally not especially welcoming to women, POC, the LGBTQ+ community.

 

One of the manifestations of this is within the war gaming space, and with 40K being both the most popular as well as having fashy themes, it’s not surprising that it’s attracted more than its fair share of bad actors. To wit, at a recent tournament in Spain, someone showed up wearing straight up Nazi iconography. Not only were they not given the boot, but when players refused to match up against him, the TO treated those rounds as conceded.

 

Warhammer 40K Op-Ed: Lets Talk About The Community's Nazi Player Problem - Bell of Lost Souls

WWW.BELLOFLOSTSOULS.NET

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Well. If you didn't know it before, the 40K community has a Nazi problem.

 

 

So now we’ve got the Warhammer community coming out there with this, which is both appreciated for its candor as well as depressing in its necessity.

 

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

WWW.WARHAMMER-COMMUNITY.COM

 

My reluctance to get into 40K is because of this kind of shit specifically. I’ve dabbled with the release of Indomitus and the new Kill Team set, and I’m happy to see GW getting out there and being vocal about it. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

GW can be vocal about it, but the underlying issue is that the fascistic, totalitarian Imperium of Man IS depicted as the ostensible "good guys" in the grimdark future of the 40K universe where there is only war.

 

It's really hard to detect any sense of "satire" based on the presentation.

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

GW can be vocal about it, but the underlying issue is that the fascistic, totalitarian Imperium of Man IS presented as the ostensible "good guys" in the 40K universe.

 

It's really hard to detect any sense of "satire" based on the presentation.

 

I’m the furthest you could be as a 40K historian, but my limited understanding is that the satire, such as it is, used to be more obvious. It’s possible to do satire without comedy of course, but the argument that 40K is satirical is… a stretch.

 

And in broad strokes I agree, it’s difficult for GW to claim that the Imperium of Man aren’t “the protagonists” even if they’re not “the good guys.” It’s adjacent to being a distinction without a difference.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

I’m the furthest you could be as a 40K historian, but my limited understanding is that the satire, such as it is, used to be more obvious. It’s possible to do satire without comedy of course, but the argument that 40K is satirical is… a stretch.

 

This is absolutely correct!

For its first few editions, it was IMPOSSIBLE to NOT interpret 40K as pure satire.  In recent years that has simply not been the case.

[Zaku3]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

This is absolutely correct!

For its first few editions, it was IMPOSSIBLE to NOT interpret 40K as pure satire.  In recent years that has simply not been the case.

 

Yes the earlier editions were heavy with the satire. However since 3rd ed they have been playing the grim dark straight. It's an interesting problem in that the setting is satirical but there are now countless works (including the GW rulebooks and codexes) that play it straight. 

 

Tbh i dont think admitting it's satire will have the desired effect. 

[Xbob42]

Even if it was more clearly satire there is the ever-present problem that is stupid people. 

[Zaku3]

21 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Even if it was more clearly satire there is the ever-present problem that is stupid people. 

 

Yup. 

 

Also related to this I decided to reward GW for putting this statement out by buying minis. Lol let my guard down and spent over 400 dollars. Got some Sisters to paint up, Daemons of Khorne for daemons of the ruinstorm, some AT Knights, some new tools, and paints I need for Raven Guard, Blood Angels, and Sons of Horus.

[Kal-El814]

3 hours ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Yup. 

 

Also related to this I decided to reward GW for putting this statement out by buying minis. Lol let my guard down and spent over 400 dollars. Got some Sisters to paint up, Daemons of Khorne for daemons of the ruinstorm, some AT Knights, some new tools, and paints I need for Raven Guard, Blood Angels, and Sons of Horus.

 

My paint collection has reached… problematic levels.

 

Paints

IMGUR.COM

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Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

 

But that’s it! I’m out! Other than the set that I kickstarted but I have planned room for that! Once that’s done it’s one in, one out, unless I get rid of those bottles on their sides and the manuals which could hold more paint…

[Zaku3]

12 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

My paint collection has reached… problematic levels.

 

Paints

IMGUR.COM

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Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

 

But that’s it! I’m out! Other than the set that I kickstarted but I have planned room for that! Once that’s done it’s one in, one out, unless I get rid of those bottles on their sides and the manuals which could hold more paint…

 

Lol I was watching Uncle Adam (tabletop minion) I think you were the first person to post about him here. Was listening to his how to warhammer on the cheap video. He mentions buying only thr specific paints you need for a project. I wish I heard that advice when I first started. So many paints lol I guess I am also a paint collector.

 

It's why my friend has been bugging me so much. He wants me to stop painting the GW way (read the way I learned how to paint from white dwarf in like 2006) and switch to Vallejo paints and enamel washes etc. I resist it because I have so much GW paint I bought. He wants me to switch to be faster but between 2 kids and his wife. We probably can't play until his son (younger of the 2) is old enough for minis. I'm not gonna run out and replace it. I will use vallejo for maybe a color GW might miss or something. Hell I use mecha color for Gunpla but I'm not replacing all my paints. 

 

That set up is great. I have an old stand that holds my paint collection and a box from my Aya Neo using my in use paints. I do need to search for some of my paints. Mainly my mecha color. Your set up is goals. 

[Kal-El814]

7 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Lol I was watching Uncle Adam (tabletop minion) I think you were the first person to post about him here. Was listening to his how to warhammer on the cheap video. He mentions buying only thr specific paints you need for a project. I wish I heard that advice when I first started. So many paints lol I guess I am also a paint collector.

 

It's why my friend has been bugging me so much. He wants me to stop painting the GW way (read the way I learned how to paint from white dwarf in like 2006) and switch to Vallejo paints and enamel washes etc. I resist it because I have so much GW paint I bought. He wants me to switch to be faster but between 2 kids and his wife. We probably can't play until his son (younger of the 2) is old enough for minis. I'm not gonna run out and replace it. I will use vallejo for maybe a color GW might miss or something. Hell I use mecha color for Gunpla but I'm not replacing all my paints. 

 

That set up is great. I have an old stand that holds my paint collection and a box from my Aya Neo using my in use paints. I do need to search for some of my paints. Mainly my mecha color. Your set up is goals. 

 

I absolutely have too many paints, or rather more than I need. In my limited defense, I got a significant amount of my GW paints at less than cost / at cost from a FLGS going out of business / when I had a friend working at a FLGS, and all the Scale 75 stuff aside from the instant I got from combo-ing some coupons and sales, so probably at about 40% of retail. It’s still more than I need, but it helps me sleep better at night and helps bait friends over for buddy painting sessions so… it’s worth it for me.

 

It does have the side effect of being asked if I work at / run a nail salon during zoom calls and getting requests for links to the racks I bought so people can store their nail polish at home.

[Moa]

So much of 40k glorifies Nazism that I don't think any amount of work on the part of GW or the playerbase will be able to rid it of the association.

You just can't really have shit like this in your game and claim you're not courting the wrong crowd. Warhammer is cool and all, but apart from my lack of patience and artistic talent, this is a big reason I know I will never pursue it as a hobby.

 

Spoiler

In before "ItS rOmaN"

 

Spoiler

Magic is better anyway

 

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, Moa said:

So much of 40k glorifies Nazism that I don't think any amount of work on the part of GW or the playerbase will be able to rid it of the association.

You just can't really have shit like this in your game and claim you're not courting the wrong crowd. Warhammer is cool and all, but apart from my lack of patience and artistic talent, this is a big reason I know I will never pursue it as a hobby.

 

  Hide contents

In before "ItS rOmaN"

 

  Hide contents

Magic is better anyway

 

 

Yeah. I mean I think you CAN do that stuff without glorifying it, satirically or no, but I don’t think a good portion of 40K passes that sniff test.

 

So much of the miniature hobby was its roots in war gaming and so much of that is based on painting realistic outfits, weapons, arms, etc.  I have and use this color pretty often despite never having painted any WWII models:

 

 

 

It’s obviously not apples to apples, recreating fake fascism for the hobby, vs. attempting to have historically accurate stuff, even if some of the latter has some problematic appeal.

[Zaku3]

On 11/23/2021 at 8:23 AM, Kal-El814 said:

 

Yeah. I mean I think you CAN do that stuff without glorifying it, satirically or no, but I don’t think a good portion of 40K passes that sniff test.

 

So much of the miniature hobby was its roots in war gaming and so much of that is based on painting realistic outfits, weapons, arms, etc.  I have and use this color pretty often despite never having painted any WWII models:

 

 

 

It’s obviously not apples to apples, recreating fake fascism for the hobby, vs. attempting to have historically accurate stuff, even if some of the latter has some problematic appeal.

 

I broke and bought some 12mm WW2s. I am hoping to use them to play Battlegroup. Got a British force, American, and German force. I unfortunately have to figure out what German div to do. Maybe the 21st Panzer. I enjoyed them in Steel Division. Need to buy the vallejo paint sets for WW2 US, German, and British.

 

Also got 12mm Civil War and gotta make that eventually. I wish I won the lotto to just paint and assemble models.

 

Edit: Got the Germans becaus3 they were cheap and to get people to play new games you need both sides. 

 

 

[BloodyHell]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:57 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

GW can be vocal about it, but the underlying issue is that the fascistic, totalitarian Imperium of Man IS depicted as the ostensible "good guys" in the grimdark future of the 40K universe where there is only war.

 

It's really hard to detect any sense of "satire" based on the presentation.

Exactly this.

When 40k was first released, and id say up to around 2000-05, there was actually plenty of satire and nonsense, but then they did a kind of rebranding to the super serious grim dark that they say is satire, but the evidence is incredibly thin for it.

 

That said, most bigger gaming spots have wonderful people. Its the tiny places where the the same people play together for years on end where you find this stuff.

I can tell you that very few TO's would allow the stuff that happened in the original post. In all my years playing, I've never met anyone like that. I've met plenty of sore losers (and one really, really sore loser in a game of WFB) while gaming, but never outright hateful bigots. 

[BloodyHell]

On 11/22/2021 at 6:37 PM, Kal-El814 said:

 

My paint collection has reached… problematic levels.

 

Paints

IMGUR.COM

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Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

 

But that’s it! I’m out! Other than the set that I kickstarted but I have planned room for that! Once that’s done it’s one in, one out, unless I get rid of those bottles on their sides and the manuals which could hold more paint…

Nice setup!

How are GW paints now? I haven't bought a pot of anything but their contrast and technical paints in a decade. I found their base paints way too thick, personally, and even with flow improvers, they don't work very well in an air brush.

I amrecently bought two kits of Monument Hobbies: Pro Acryl, but I haven't actually tried them yet. Plan on using them on a new Tyranids force. 

I generally stick to Vallejo air and army painter.

[Kal-El814]

2 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

Nice setup!

How are GW paints now? I haven't bought a pot of anything but their contrast and technical paints in a decade. I found their base paints way too thick, personally, and even with flow improvers, they don't work very well in an air brush.

I amrecently bought two kits of Monument Hobbies: Pro Acryl, but I haven't actually tried them yet. Plan on using them on a new Tyranids force. 

I generally stick to Vallejo air and army painter.

 

Most GW paints at this point are good. There are a couple I don’t mess with; whatever white they have in their Base range is honestly one of the most miserable paints I have ever worked with, but that’s the exception. I still like their shades better than most others, though I find uses for the Army Painter strong/light/mid tone and Vallejo’s grey wash, since Nuln Oil from GQ has some brown in it and I want one that doesn’t have that tone in it pretty regularly.

 

Pro Acryl, Scale 75, and Vallejo are my main paints right now and they all play pretty nicely with an airbrush. I don’t think I’ve ever used any GW paints through an airbrush other than their Air line, and I only have a few of those, mainly ones I bought mistakenly thinking they were Base paints.

[Zaku3]

6 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Most GW paints at this point are good. There are a couple I don’t mess with; whatever white they have in their Base range is honestly one of the most miserable paints I have ever worked with, but that’s the exception. I still like their shades better than most others, though I find uses for the Army Painter strong/light/mid tone and Vallejo’s grey wash, since Nuln Oil from GQ has some brown in it and I want one that doesn’t have that tone in it pretty regularly.

 

Pro Acryl, Scale 75, and Vallejo are my main paints right now and they all play pretty nicely with an airbrush. I don’t think I’ve ever used any GW paints through an airbrush other than their Air line, and I only have a few of those, mainly ones I bought mistakenly thinking they were Base paints.

 

Gotta water em down. I got 1 to 1 with the base paints and less with the layers. I do want to try out the air line though. Need to get Mephiston red for BA. Picked up Sons of Horus air and Lupercal Green for Son of Horus. Just need the non air version of those.

[Kal-El814]

On 12/6/2021 at 4:14 PM, Zaku3 said:

 

Gotta water em down. I got 1 to 1 with the base paints and less with the layers. I do want to try out the air line though. Need to get Mephiston red for BA. Picked up Sons of Horus air and Lupercal Green for Son of Horus. Just need the non air version of those.

No matter how much I diluted GWs Base white I hated it. White’s a tricky paint but theirs is just bad. 

[Zaku3]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:50 PM, Kal-El814 said:

No matter how much I diluted GWs Base white I hated it. White’s a tricky paint but theirs is just bad. 

 

Oo that was meant for airbrushing. The white paint I don't have much experience. When I did World Eaters (30k) I just primed them white and used a wash recipe from forgeworld on em. I did use white scar as a highlight but I think that is the layer paint.

[Kal-El814]

26 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

Oo that was meant for airbrushing. The white paint I don't have much experience. When I did World Eaters (30k) I just primed them white and used a wash recipe from forgeworld on em. I did use white scar as a highlight but I think that is the layer paint.

 

It is. It’s better than their Base white, but I’ve just moved on to whites from other brands across the board, there are enough good ones out there that it’s just not worth messing with Citadel’s offerings.

[Theimperiumsthrowaway]

Oh contraire 

 

>the Imperium is evil guys!
>and yet they're at the forefront of all marketing material, focusing on the heroic and self-sacrificial nature of the Imperium's military, from the humble Guardsmen to the noble Space Marine, all of which willingly lay down their lives in defense of their home and race
>we will also portray the complete cleansing of a planet overrun by another race as a grim fate for all humans remaining on the planet, but ultimately the correct sacrifice to make
>while everyone else is notably bereft of positive, humanizing traits

 

Purge the Heretic

 

Kill the Mutant

 

Burn the Unclean

 

,':| you figure it out (hint gw itself is full of them apparently)=heretic

 

Cock choppahs =mutant

 

The brown tide= unclean

[Moa]

Your honor @Commissar SFLUFAN, I rest my case.

[BloodyHell]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:32 AM, Moa said:

So much of 40k glorifies Nazism that I don't think any amount of work on the part of GW or the playerbase will be able to rid it of the association.

You just can't really have shit like this in your game and claim you're not courting the wrong crowd. Warhammer is cool and all, but apart from my lack of patience and artistic talent, this is a big reason I know I will never pursue it as a hobby.

 

  Hide contents

In before "ItS rOmaN"

 

  Hide contents

Magic is better anyway

 

Your last comment is just objectively wrong 😜 Magic is so bad right now, it's absurd. Its a game I used to love that I won't even look at it anymore.