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Update: New Mexico issues "maximum" fine to Rust production company after report finds "serious and willful" safety violations


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9 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

TMZ reported that the gun was being used recreationally for target practice by some of the crew.

 

ed1739bc2edb4fa6b7f947a72a79ac8b_xl.jpg
WWW.TMZ.COM

The gun was supposedly being used for target practice, with real bullets

I heard that the other day from a buddy of mine who has a movie coming out that this A.D. also worked on. I didn't want to say anything here because it was just hearsay at the time but yeah. Supposedly they were target practicing with those guns. That's how a REAL bullet ended up in that gun on set... possibly.

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2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


I don’t believe we actually don’t know the circumstance that lead to the do and director to be down range of the barrel of the gun. Whether they walked into the line of fire, or Baldwin was being careless. I’m sure such details will be forthcoming, but it sounds like most of the cast and crew was outside so it may only be Baldwin, Hall, and Souza who know

We do know... they were setting up a shot where Baldwin was drawing the gun (A cross draw) into the camera. There was also a camera operator present and when the gun was fired, the shot BARELY missed him. Baldwin wasn't being careless, he was rehearsing a shot with what he thought was an unloaded gun. This has all been on reported from the director himself in that Guardian story @Commissar SFLUFANposted.

 

Quote

Alec Baldwin was practising a scene that involved him pointing a gun “towards the camera lens” when it accidentally went off, killing his director of photography, according to a written statement by the film’s director.

The director, Joel Souza, said he heard what “sounded like a whip and then a loud pop”. He said he saw the cinematographer Halyna Hutchins clutch her midriff and stumble backwards. Souza noticed that he himself was bleeding from the right shoulder.

The cameras were not rolling at the time. Baldwin was sitting on a wooden church pew on the set and trying out a scene in which he would “cross-draw” a revolver from its holster. Hutchins and Souza were checking the camera angle.

Moments before the accident, Baldwin was assured he was handling a “cold gun”, Souza told investigators. The film’s armourer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, checked prop weapons, and the assistant director, Dave Halls, rechecked them and handed them to the actors, Souza said. It was Halls who gave Baldwin the gun, police said.

No mystery how the gun went off. The question is why was it loaded and why was Baldwin told the gun wasn't loaded when it was. 

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Also, it seems it was an actual bullet.  They pulled it from The Director's shoulder.

 

27baldwin-flowers-facebookJumbo.jpg
WWW.NYTIMES.COM

The bullet that killed the cinematographer on the film “Rust” has been recovered, the Santa Fe County Sheriff said, and investigators believe there were more live rounds on the set.

 

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14 hours ago, sblfilms said:


I don’t believe we actually don’t know the circumstance that lead to the do and director to be down range of the barrel of the gun. Whether they walked into the line of fire, or Baldwin was being careless. I’m sure such details will be forthcoming, but it sounds like most of the cast and crew was outside so it may only be Baldwin, Hall, and Souza who know

They were setting up the shot behind the camera where he points and shoots toward the camera. Adjusting the lenses, focus, etc

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2 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

They were setting up the shot behind the camera where he points and shoots toward the camera. Adjusting the lenses, focus, etc

No, that's what the director who got shot in the shoulder and one of three people still alive who was actually there says happened in a statement to the police. We still don't know what actually happened according to the legal geniuses in this topic.

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16 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I heard that the other day from a buddy of mine who has a movie coming out that this A.D. also worked on. I didn't want to say anything here because it was just hearsay at the time but yeah. Supposedly they were target practicing with those guns. That's how a REAL bullet ended up in that gun on set... possibly.

 

These guys were definitely playing target practice on set. There is no other reason for this...

 

AP21298785585746-H-2021.jpg?w=1024
WWW.HOLLYWOODREPORTER.COM

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed and director Joel Souza wounded last week after Alec Baldwin discharged a firearm on the set of the Western.

 

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6 hours ago, Remarkableriots said:
GettyImages-1348070278-H-2021-1.jpg?w=10
WWW.HOLLYWOODREPORTER.COM

Internal financial pressures will mount as the Alec Baldwin film lacked a completion guarantee. Producers have retained a top lawyer for an investigation.

 

 

The film didn't have a completion guarantee? Wow. Some investors are gonna lose some money.

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1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

These guys were definitely playing target practice on set. There is no other reason for this...

 

AP21298785585746-H-2021.jpg?w=1024
WWW.HOLLYWOODREPORTER.COM

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed and director Joel Souza wounded last week after Alec Baldwin discharged a firearm on the set of the Western.

 

500 rounds of ammunition??? Yeah that's much more than was needed for "testing" purposes. Holy shit. I know I saw it reported that they found actually ammo on the set but had no idea it was that much.

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4 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

500 rounds of ammunition??? Yeah that's much more than was needed for "testing" purposes. Holy shit. I know I saw it reported that they found actually ammo on the set but had no idea it was that much.

 

According to the article, they found a mix of live and blank on set. Tie that with earlier reports of them having target practice on set and I'm thinking the crew were having "fun" with live ammo on the old Western set.

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4 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

According to the article, they found a mix of live and blank on set. Tie that with earlier reports of them having Target practice on set and I'm thinking the crew were having "fun" with live ammo on the old Western set.

Ah so it was 500 rounds TOTAL between blanks and bullets. Got it. Well depending on how much of that was actual bullets, it may not be so abnormal. Still seems dangerous to have live bullets on a set with guns that actually fire. 

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Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

Ah so it was 500 rounds TOTAL between blanks and bullets. Got it. Well depending on how much of that was actual bullets, it may not be so abnormal. Still seems dangerous to have live bullets on a set with guns that actually fire. Crazziness. I also found out that the AD in this debacle worked on a movie a buddy of mine just wrote called Castle Falls starring Dolph Lundgren and Scott Adkins.

 

Yeah, it also seems most of the guns on set were working guns that could handle live ammunition. All of this just seems like a really bag idea and I'm shocked someone want killed earlier. With all the live ammo on set, it makes more sense that there were accidental discharges during earlier filming. The fatal one was like the fourth misfire on set, right? I'm amazed it took this long for someone to get shot here.

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2 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Yeah, it also seems most of the guns on set were working guns that could handle live ammunition. All of this just seems like a really bag idea and I'm shocked someone want killed earlier. With all the live ammo on set, it makes more sense that there were accidental discharges during earlier filming. The fatal one was like the fourth misfire on set, right? I'm amazed it took this long for someone to get shot here.

According to the story you linked, no live rounds are supposed to be on set and the armorer said there weren't any, but the police allegedly found some on set. Such a clusterfuck.

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2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

No, that's what the director who got shot in the shoulder and one of three people still alive who was actually there says happened in a statement to the police. We still don't know what actually happened according to the legal geniuses in this topic.


That does not describe what you think it does. I don’t know how to dumb it down further, but for somebody who makes lots of claims about their experience in the industry you seem to lack some basic understanding that people move around the set even when “checking the camera” or whatever other version of that language you want to use.

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2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

According to the article, they found a mix of live and blank on set. Tie that with earlier reports of them having target practice on set and I'm thinking the crew were having "fun" with live ammo on the old Western set.


The previous reporting I saw said they were shooting live rounds off location. Which honestly, there isn’t anything wrong with that. The issues are all about what was going on back at the set.

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12 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The previous reporting I saw said they were shooting live rounds off location. Which honestly, there isn’t anything wrong with that. The issues are all about what was going on back at the set.

 

If they're storing those same guns with the movie weapons and storing live ammo anywhere on set, that's just begging for fatal mistakes to be made.

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Just now, Ghost_MH said:

 

If they're storing those same guns with the movie weapons and storing live ammo anywhere on set, that's just begging for fatal mistakes to be made.


The movie weapons are real guns that get used for purposes other than movies. The issue is the apparent poor standards on set with regard to how the armorer and AD operated.

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8 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The movie weapons are real guns that get used for purposes other than movies. The issue is the apparent poor standards on set with regard to how the armorer and AD operated.

 

The latest police report says they found a mix of regular guns and disabled, prop guns on set. This was definitely down to poor standards, but they're just begging for mistakes to be made when they bring live ammo on a set with real guns and then use that live ammo in those real guns while storing them all on the same set and just hoping nobody ever makes a mistake.

 

My entire career is based on the idea that people will always make a mistake at some point, and so the idea is to mitigate risk or contain the damage from those mistakes. These guys neither mitigated the risks real ammo on set brings, nor did they do anything to contain any potential damage. Even several misfires with these same guns on this same set led to no changes in protocol.

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7 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

My entire career is based on the idea that people will always make a mistake at some point, and so the idea is to mitigate risk or contain the damage from those mistakes.

 

This is good practice for almost any situation!

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1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

This is good practice for almost any situation!

 

You'd probably not be amazed how little it's actually put into practice.

 

Company I work for was purchased and I was amazed that one of the new companies primary hubs only had a single Internet connection. Amazed because I've included multiple Internet connections in every building project I've ever managed. I asked them, what happens if the Internet went down, and they responded with "it's never gone down, but if it did I guess it would take out the Eastern US and parts of Europe". Lo and behold, highway construction went on to knock out everything on the Atlantic for a couple of days. Nothing like losing millions of dollars because nobody likes to mitigate risks.

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3 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

You'd probably not be amazed how little it's actually put into practice.

 

Company I work for was purchased and I was amazed that one of the new companies primary hubs only had a single Internet connection. Amazed because I've included multiple Internet connections in every building project I've ever managed. I asked them, what happens if the Internet went down, and they responded with "it's never gone down, but if it did I guess it would take out the Eastern US and parts of Europe". Lo and behold, highway construction went on to knock out everything on the Atlantic for a couple of days. Nothing like losing millions of dollars because nobody likes to mitigate risks.


What gets me is when the cost of mitigation is incredibly low in nominal terms and people still don’t do it.

 

As an example, my dad is a locksmith and all the new style electronic keypads come with a primary and back up battery slot. The entire purpose of the back up is to prevent a situation where the locking mechanism gets stuck in the middle of its action because the battery died. If that happens, the safe had to be drilled open which is really costly.

 

But tooonnnnnns of people don’t bother loading the back up slot with a $5 battery and instead end up spending $1000 to get the safe open and repaired.

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8 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

You'd probably not be amazed how little it's actually put into practice.

 

Company I work for was purchased and I was amazed that one of the new companies primary hubs only had a single Internet connection. Amazed because I've included multiple Internet connections in every building project I've ever managed. I asked them, what happens if the Internet went down, and they responded with "it's never gone down, but if it did I guess it would take out the Eastern US and parts of Europe". Lo and behold, highway construction went on to knock out everything on the Atlantic for a couple of days. Nothing like losing millions of dollars because nobody likes to mitigate risks.

 

But if you mitigated the risks and then the risks didn’t get realized, you wasted money. QED.

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2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

But if you mitigated the risks and then the risks didn’t get realized, you wasted money. QED.

 

I've forced companies to move data centers across the country out of fear of hurricanes or blizzards. Like yeah, it's cool that your guys can drive to both of them and you save on airfare, but they're both on the same damn grid. The same hurricane will knock them both offline. I've used meteor strike, in a completely sincere sense, on more than one occasion. Terrorist attack works pretty well, depending the crowd.

 

I find a large portion of my job is to convince people to spend money when they don't really want to.

 

All risks are realized at some point. It just depends on your timeframe. At some point, the Earth will be swallowed by the sun and then you'll really wish you had backed up all your data to that reasonably priced colo in Alpha Centauri.

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51 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

The latest police report says they found a mix of regular guns and disabled, prop guns on set. This was definitely down to poor standards, but they're just begging for mistakes to be made when they bring live ammo on a set with real guns and then use that live ammo in those real guns while storing them all on the same set and just hoping nobody ever makes a mistake.

 

My entire career is based on the idea that people will always make a mistake at some point, and so the idea is to mitigate risk or contain the damage from those mistakes. These guys neither mitigated the risks real ammo on set brings, nor did they do anything to contain any potential damage. Even several misfires with these same guns on this same set led to no changes in protocol.

They were definitely playing with fire literally and they ignored not only the safety protocols on set, but the warnings from the experienced crew that was on set and had brought their safety concerns to the producers. Crazy that it came to this and the more you find out about the story the crazier it seems. The source of the problem seems to be an inexperienced armorer and an A.D. who seems to have a history of rushing crews and ignoring safety standards. Both of them said they checked the guns before handing them off althought the AD said he couldn't remember if he checked each chamber in the gun which means he didn't. Not sure what criminal charges could be brought here if any but there is a HELL of a civil suit brewing.

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3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

That does not describe what you think it does. I don’t know how to dumb it down further, but for somebody who makes lots of claims about their experience in the industry you seem to lack some basic understanding that people move around the set even when “checking the camera” or whatever other version of that language you want to use.

 

What you're doing is called speculation. What we have, and ALL that we have, indicates they were standing behind camera.

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7 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

What you're doing is called speculation. What we have, and ALL that we have, indicates they were standing behind camera.


I’m not speculating at all. I’m saying that the minimal details in a police report tells us nothing about what was actually going on in the moments leading up to the shooting. What is happening right now is taking very scant details and then filling in the gaps based on what people imagine may have happened.

 

Quote

Reid went on to say, that while setting up his camera, there was no video or audio being filmed as it was just preparation of the scene and setting. Reid said while preparing, there was a shadow coming from the outside light and they had to move the camera at a different angle from Alec. He said Alec was trying to explain how he was going to draw out the firearm and where his arm would be at when the firearm was pulled from the holster.


For example, we don’t know the exact timing of any of these things. It is clear that the three people besides Baldwin were not just standing still the entire time he was practicing as they moved the camera in response to a shadow being thrown on Baldwin that wasn’t there when they had originally set up the shot prior to lunch.

 

That is why I don’t think @Ghost_MHcan assume that Baldwin was pointing the gun at the other three during his rehearsal of the move. Maybe so, or maybe something else occurred like the DP walking into the line of fire at the moment the gun discharged. We don’t know based on the limited details because police reports like those aren’t meant to be definitive accounts, but to get her facts to give investigators direction for further questioning.

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2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:


I’m not speculating at all. I’m saying that the minimal details in a police report tells us nothing about what was actually going on in the moments leading up to the shooting. What is happening right now is taking very scant details and then filling in the gaps based on what people imagine may have happened.

 


For example, we don’t know the exact timing of any of these things. It is clear that the three people besides Baldwin were not just standing still the entire time he was practicing as they moved the camera in response to a shadow being thrown on Baldwin that wasn’t there when they had originally set up the shot prior to lunch.

 

That is why I don’t think @Ghost_MHcan assume that Baldwin was pointing the gun at the other three during his rehearsal of the move. Maybe so, or maybe something else occurred like the DP walking into the line of fire at the moment the gun discharged. We don’t know based on the limited details because police reports like those aren’t meant to be definitive accounts, but to get her facts to give investigators direction for further questioning.

 

Eh, what the DP and director were doing when they got shot is of almost no consequence for me. If Alec was pointing his gun toward people that's bad. If the victims walked in front of him while he was holding up the gun, that's also bad. Neither of those are properly respecting a potentially deadly weapon and blame goes to all. I know several people I trust with my life. If they have a gun that they say is empty, I don't want it pointed at me. If I check it and verify it's empty myself, I still don't want it pointed at me.

 

Either way, none of that matters because the actual problem here isn't any of them, so I don't really care how that piece of the puzzle fits. All blame goes on the armorer and AD. Those two are too blame. They're the ones actually responsible for the guns and the safety on the set.

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4 hours ago, sblfilms said:


That does not describe what you think it does. I don’t know how to dumb it down further, but for somebody who makes lots of claims about their experience in the industry you seem to lack some basic understanding that people move around the set even when “checking the camera” or whatever other version of that language you want to use.

Someone doesn't know how to use a camera 

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26 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Eh, what the DP and director were doing when they got shot is of almost no consequence for me. If Alec was pointing his gun toward people that's bad. If the victims walked in front of him while he was holding up the gun, that's also bad. Neither of those are properly respecting a potentially deadly weapon and blame goes to all. I know several people I trust with my life. If they have a gun that they say is empty, I don't want it pointed at me. If I check it and verify it's empty myself, I still don't want it pointed at me.

 

I agree with the end sentiment, literally my only point here is that there is only very broad descriptions of what occurred and quite importantly the descriptions were not quotations but paraphrases by the LEO who submitted the affidavit for the search warrant. This is not a professional filmmaker describing the events, this was a police officer distilling the details of the interviewees.

As an example

Quote

Joel said he was standing beside (Cinematographer) Halayna Hutchins viewing the camera angle on camera lens. 

nobody involved in professional filmmaking has ever used the sentence “we were viewing the camera angle on camera lens.” That is how the LEO interpreted what Joel said. It is entirely possible that the cameraman, the DP, and the director were standing huddled around the camera while Baldwin was pointing the gun that way, it just isn’t accurate to say the affidavit says so when it in fact doesn’t. And to the best of my knowledge the most detailed account so far is the affidavit, though I could be wrong about that.


And If you have ever have to get a police report made on an event for which you were a witness it may surprise you how poorly police interpret the things you said when you read back their version!

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50 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

Eh, what the DP and director were doing when they got shot is of almost no consequence for me. If Alec was pointing his gun toward people that's bad. If the victims walked in front of him while he was holding up the gun, that's also bad. Neither of those are properly respecting a potentially deadly weapon and blame goes to all. I know several people I trust with my life. If they have a gun that they say is empty, I don't want it pointed at me. If I check it and verify it's empty myself, I still don't want it pointed at me.

 

Either way, none of that matters because the actual problem here isn't any of them, so I don't really care how that piece of the puzzle fits. All blame goes on the armorer and AD. Those two are too blame. They're the ones actually responsible for the guns and the safety on the set.

It's a movie set. They point guns at the camera and other actors all the time. That's why it's up to those in charge of set safety and the weapons to be absolutely sure of their jobs and to follow protocol. Baldwin was preparing to shoot a close up of him firing into the camera and was told he had am empty gun by the people whose job it is to be responsible for those things. They failed him. His responsibility if any, comes with being a producer on this film and probably the best paid and most experienced and influential person on set. That's why he's not entirely out of the woods here. But the actual accident itself? Nothing from what I've heard so far indicates any irresponsible behavior   on his part or the director and DP. But wtf do I know?

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