At this point, do you feel like the vaccine was the 'be all, end all' like they made it seem at the start of this?

[Joe]

Too many people fail to understand how much worse the Delta variant was compared to even Alpha (forget about the ancestral strain). The vaccines are literal fucking miracles that have saved countless lives.

[stepee]

11 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

I respect your opinion but we are each entitled to our own. I've had "covid" before the shots were available, "covid" if you want to call it was nothing but a regular cold for me and pretty much everyone I know who has had it. Not one person I know has died from it, unfortunately I can't say the same about the vaccine, I've know 6 people now who have taken it and died randomly due to heart attacks and or blood clots (23yo, 34yo and a 51yo who had no underlying conditions), that alone right there scares the fuck out of me considering I have prior heart issues and my doctor who I see every 6 months told me not to get it considering I have had the "covid" and the risks of the shot are not worth it for me considering natural immunity and the chance of myocarditis and or blood clots. I'm not against someone getting the shot but I will not be taking it for reasons stated above.

 

I know 87 people who died that did not get vaccinated. Among people I know who are vaccinated, a group of 323+ friends that have testified to me that they have been vaccinated, 220 of them are doing as well as they were at the time they got the shot. 103 of them have improved since then. And these are hard stats, actually documented in writing. 323-220=103/6=17.16 more than the reverse case you stated.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

I respect your opinion but we are each entitled to our own. I've had "covid" before the shots were available, "covid" if you want to call it was nothing but a regular cold for me and pretty much everyone I know who has had it. Not one person I know has died from it, unfortunately I can't say the same about the vaccine, I've know 6 people now who have taken it and died randomly due to heart attacks and or blood clots (23yo, 34yo and a 51yo who had no underlying conditions), that alone right there scares the fuck out of me considering I have prior heart issues and my doctor who I see every 6 months told me not to get it considering I have had the "covid" and the risks of the shot are not worth it for me considering natural immunity and the chance of myocarditis and or blood clots. I'm not against someone getting the shot but I will not be taking it for reasons stated above.

 

We have had probably 80 million people infected with Covid in the US, and around 750,000 people dead from it.
 

We have around 185 million people, and how many dead from vaccination?

[Paperclyp]

13 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

I respect your opinion but we are each entitled to our own. I've had "covid" before the shots were available, "covid" if you want to call it was nothing but a regular cold for me and pretty much everyone I know who has had it. Not one person I know has died from it, unfortunately I can't say the same about the vaccine, I've know 6 people now who have taken it and died randomly due to heart attacks and or blood clots (23yo, 34yo and a 51yo who had no underlying conditions), that alone right there scares the fuck out of me considering I have prior heart issues and my doctor who I see every 6 months told me not to get it considering I have had the "covid" and the risks of the shot are not worth it for me considering natural immunity and the chance of myocarditis and or blood clots. I'm not against someone getting the shot but I will not be taking it for reasons stated above.

I am very sorry for any personal loss you’ve endured. There’s no significant evidence that the vaccine causes deaths of that kind. 
 

Your post above was filled with so many easily verifiable falsities or misleading statements (ie vaccines have never needed other people to get them to be effective, that it is in any way poison, that natural immunity is always better than vaccines, and I could go on), that I’m frankly tired of it dude. You’re lying or so confident in your statements, that again, are easily just with a basic understanding of the human language or history found to be incorrect, and our society is just PLAGUED with this bullshit right now and I’m sick of it. I have to go in to covid rooms that are 80 percent unvaccinated people and treat them the same as the girl in the next room who is vaccinated but has immune deficiencies and may die because of misinformation and lies spread just like you did up there. 
 

It’s exhausting and tragic.  

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Amazing how I’ve spent the better part of two years on the frontlines fighting something that doesn’t exist. Doh’Kay. 

[Paperclyp]

5 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

I appreciate you having a civil conversation I really do unlike most here who just jump at the juggler, and I agree with you it is exhausting but I do my own research and gather my own opinions that may or not be wrong but no one really knows right now. It's a new thing, I hope we're all OK and get over this shit. 

I don't mind engaging because I want to understand why drives people to think generally like you do, but I want to hammer home a few things

 

A) Why would you would say that vaccines don't require that other people also have them?  The whole point of mandated vaccines for kindergarten and college and whatever is because this is the opposite of reality. We've had outbreaks of stuff like mumps in antivax places in the past 10 years or so due to the antivax push. Which really sucks if you have a kid under a certain age because it is not recommended that you get those vaccines until you are of a certain age. And guess what, that's a government implemented vaccine mandate. It is IMPERITAVE that everyone have those vaccines lest you risk an idiotic and easily preventable outbreak. 

 

B) Saying that natural immunity is better than vaccination is a misleading statement. I actually don't know the history of this in detail, but it's a blurry stance to have at best. All of us have had the flu, but it is still a good idea to get the flu shot every year (this goes to point A - the hospital systems have a general expectation of capacity changes in the winter due to flu season that is alleviated by a certain number of people getting the flu shot) because that particular virus mutates so quickly that your immunity from last year may do jack squat the following year. We don't know for sure what is better for COVID, so it's odd to make such a definitive statement about it. 

 

C) They've sequenced COVID, multiple strains, I think 

 

There is more I could break down, but these aren't really opinions I guess. It's incorrect information, and I just want to draw a distinction here. 

 

[SuperSpreader]

33 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

I appreciate you having a civil conversation I really do unlike most here who just jump at the juggler, and I agree with you it is exhausting but I do my own research and gather my own opinions that may or not be wrong but no one really knows right now. It's a new thing, I hope we're all OK and get over this shit. 

 

haha u dumb

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I mean, I had a "debate" with a coworker this week because her "opinion" is that Mexico is part of South America. And the USSR was some important ship or sub that did...something.

 

Some people will just always ignore easily verifiable facts. I guess at least hers aren't harmful to others.

[Bacon]

1 hour ago, BlueAngel said:

I respect your opinion but we are each entitled to our own.

Opinions mean nothing in the face of facts.

[legend]

3 hours ago, BlueAngel said:

It's poison it doesn't work, 99% of the people who don't want it are not anti-vax they're anti-mandate (I for one have had all of my shots up until now, I will however never take this one or any future one for anything not even related to covid my trust in the government alone with many others is gone) the government has no control over what I put in my body. Vaccines don't require other people to have the vaccine (it's never needed that, it's funny how before for example having the chicken pox meant you didn't need a vaccine because you already had it, aka natural immunity which is ALWAYS stronger at preventing re-infection but not with "covid"), because you know natural immunity but they don't want to talk about that because there are no profits to be made or passports to be had with natural immunity. It's strange the cdc literally re-worded what vaccine meant and what heard immunity means on their website, it's a fucking scam and you sheep are too committed to even notice or care, it's sad. They can't even sequence the genome of "covid" because it doesn't exist.

 

 

Untold legions of scientists working in academia studying this problem who make absolutely shit pay for the level of expertise they have with no financial connection tied to vaccines vehemently disagree with you. Stop thinking this is a profit-motivated conspiracy. Your understanding of vaccines is terrible and you should stop thinking you know better. You really fucking don't.

[Bacon]

@Commissar SFLUFAN What is one less? 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, BlueAngel said:

unlike most here who just jump at the juggler,

 

BA ITT. Jump at him!

 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Yeah, uh, all of science disagrees with you.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Yeah, uh, all of science disagrees with you.

 

[Bacon]

You don't believe in facts. Facts care not for belief. Facts are facts whether you like it or not. Opinions aren't facts just because you believe them to be so.  

[Paperclyp]

6 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

Facts that you believe, facts that might go against the grain are suppressed, why aren't they worth a look? Because you're led to belive one narrative? Individual thought doesn't exist anymore... we should be looking at all options and viewpoints but no that's not allowed, if something doesn't agree with the told narrative it's false outright lies. Were we not taught critical thinking?

these are vague statements that people with your talking points when backed into a corner ALWAYS recite. I provided simple and easily verifiable counters to lies and / or misinformation that you initially posted. What is the specific narrative that you actually believe that is backed up with any sort of verifiable information? What is the critical thinking that you are privy to that all of us and the medical community is missing? 
 

You are parroting talking points that bad actors and manipulative liars give you to back away from a conversation without saying anything other than welp agree to disagree when confronted with real life information.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

You realize you’re wasting energy typing out thoughtful responses to someone who has no interest in reality. 

[Bacon]

[Paperclyp]

5 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

You realize you’re wasting energy typing out thoughtful responses to someone who has no interest in reality. 

You’re probably right, I have a nagging optimism recently though. 

[Joe]

10 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

All facts now are msm science, actual science is suppressed. 

Honest question: what’s your opinion regarding how some blue governors made the lamentable decision to send COVID infected nursing home residents back into their nursing homes, which caused a high number of deaths in those places early on in the pandemic?

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, BlueAngel said:

Facts that you believe, facts that might go against the grain are suppressed, why aren't they worth a look? Because you're led to belive one narrative? Individual thought doesn't exist anymore... we should be looking at all options and viewpoints but no that's not allowed, if something doesn't agree with the told narrative it's false outright lies. Were we not taught critical thinking?

Can you give an example of a fact that supports any of your claims here?

[SuperSpreader]

He's a dum dum and will live the rest of his life with dummy problems, you're wasting your time. 

[Brian]

@Commissar SFLUFAN I second @Bacon nomination for judgeship 

[Keyser_Soze]

@Paperclyp Sir. Between being at the front lines of a pandemic and the peformance of the corn huskers I suggest you disengage. I commend you for bringing genuine discourse to the thread but sadly it is wasted here. Your attempt to understand the other side is a waste of time as there is no reasoning with a troll.

[thewhyteboar]

"I respect your opinion but we are each entitled to our own."

Yeah, that's for like, favorite pizza toppings, not whether or not one believes in the germ theory of medicine.

[stepee]

19 hours ago, sblfilms said:

This was done and published for the first time in a January of 2020 in the journal Nature

 

This shit cracks me up because you know the people saying this have no fucking clue what sequencing a genome is, like seriously, their entire expertise on the matter is having memorized the line “they couldn’t even sequence the genome of covid” , which anyone can see is false if they have 5 seconds and access to google.

 

Then again, my dad who is into this dumb shit too says now that google is also msm fake news and all the results lead you to false information so anything you find on google is wrong.  You have to use duckduckgo or something and I’m not kidding.

 

The entire thing is so pointless, these people have removed all possible avenues for anything true to be accepted as facts. Something can now only be true if it comes from a fringe source. Things are considered false just BECAUSE they are proven and accepted to be true.

 

They talk about sheep but my lord it’s like they all get a pamphlet and read off it verbatim. They do and believe whatever right wing pundits/pols tell them, word for word. I’ve never seen a mass of people so led by a leash by their politicians than the current maga crowd of republican and they somehow have no awareness of what’s being done to them. The only consistency they have is who they follow, since what they believe in can change based on what the people they follow feed to them.

 

Somehow they don’t realize that by making everything “msm”, that all mainstream information is fake, they think they are being unique free thinkers, but all they did was create a bubble for themselves where something can only be true if they are told so first by right wing propaganda.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SuperSpreader]

3 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

This shit cracks me up because you know the people saying this have no fucking clue what sequencing a genome is, like seriously, their entire expertise on the matter is having memorized the line “they couldn’t even sequence the genome of covid” , which anyone can see is false if they have 5 seconds and access to google.

 

Then again, my dad who is into this dumb shit too says now that google is also msm fake news and all the results lead you to false information so anything you find on google is wrong.  You have to use duckduckgo or something and I’m not kidding.

 

The entire thing is so pointless, these people have removed all possible avenues for anything true to be accepted as facts. Something can now only be true if it comes from a fringe source. Things are considered false just BECAUSE they are proven and accepted to be true.

 

They talk about sheep but my lord it’s like they all get a pamphlet and read off it verbatim. They do and believe whatever right wing pundits/pols tell them, word for word. I’ve never seen a mass of people so led by a leash by their politicians than the current maga crowd of republican and they somehow have no awareness of what’s being done to them. The only consistency they have is who they follow, since what they believe in can change based on what the people they follow feed to them.

 

Somehow they don’t realize that by making everything “msm”, that all mainstream information is fake, they think they are being unique free thinkers, but all they did was create a bubble for themselves where something can only be true if they are told so first by right wing propaganda.

 

 

 

 

 

 

cry moar lib

[Paperclyp]

20 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

This shit cracks me up because you know the people saying this have no fucking clue what sequencing a genome is, like seriously, their entire expertise on the matter is having memorized the line “they couldn’t even sequence the genome of covid” , which anyone can see is false if they have 5 seconds and access to google.

 

Then again, my dad who is into this dumb shit too says now that google is also msm fake news and all the results lead you to false information so anything you find on google is wrong.  You have to use duckduckgo or something and I’m not kidding.

 

The entire thing is so pointless, these people have removed all possible avenues for anything true to be accepted as facts. Something can now only be true if it comes from a fringe source. Things are considered false just BECAUSE they are proven and accepted to be true.

 

They talk about sheep but my lord it’s like they all get a pamphlet and read off it verbatim. They do and believe whatever right wing pundits/pols tell them, word for word. I’ve never seen a mass of people so led by a leash by their politicians than the current maga crowd of republican and they somehow have no awareness of what’s being done to them. The only consistency they have is who they follow, since what they believe in can change based on what the people they follow feed to them.

 

Somehow they don’t realize that by making everything “msm”, that all mainstream information is fake, they think they are being unique free thinkers, but all they did was create a bubble for themselves where something can only be true if they are told so first by right wing propaganda.

 

It’s probably not worth me thinking about but I think a lot about it (in part because I have several family members who have gone down this crazy road as well), but it’s always confused me that since they don’t believe the information that is widely available, how can you believe anything at all with any confidence? I could see being some skeptical of things that you’re just almost in a state of perpetual paranoia and don’t think anyone’s telling the truth, but to latch on to these grifters who can so easily be shown to be misleading you or flat out lying about easy things, that I don’t get. 
 

There’s the whole Q aspect of it, sure, which goes into cult thinking and a lot of those people feel alienated from society and want to feel a sense of community and like they understand something most people don’t yadda yadda, but it just seems like that’s not the only thing at play here. 
 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Hey, I use Duckduckgo and guess what? It's the same info as Google.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Hey, I use Duckduckgo and guess what? It's the same info as Google.

 

So you and BA have something in common?

[gamer.tv]

Looking forward to my Covid booster next year. 

[HardAct]

Oh man this topic has really changed the way I look at "US" as a whole. I'm incredible disappointed by the speed and effectiveness in which all the anti-vac'ers and misinformation spreaders, the conspiracy theorists etc have caused what very well could have been Americas crowning moment in a world wise pandemic to fail miserably!  I have 5 children, and 10 grandchildren {Yes I know...lol} so i'm seeing all sides in my very family. Me, my wife and my youngest daughter couldn't wait to be vaccinated. Gladely and very appreciated for it. My oldest son 32 believes this is all political and that it's just like the flu! FUCK! we made the hardest decision because of this and as of a year ago told all kids we wouldn't do visitation of any kind until we all came together and got vaccinated. Needless to say 2 kids have, 2 are hell bent not to, and it seems won't unless forced and that's another story too. I'm saddened, and embarrassed, and am still in shock over how divided we actually are.  not that it's related {I feel it actually is}, my oldest also fully believes that Trump won the election, and that it was stolen too. It's not funny, I didn't think we could believe suck nonsense but here it is, in my family too guys. My moms vaccinated, my youngest and her husband is too, I hope you all eventually will be. As a 50+ year old and completely anti social media person myself I'm still in hopes soon we can turn this around, but I do not think so.

 

I have to say this too. My oldest sisters twins ones an ER nurse, and it's been devastating watching the toll on her. She caught Covid over 1 year ago befor the vaccines. At first it was fine, on the 4th day she really turned to bad and scary, no taste, etc, etc. She has recovered, but is still experiencing symptoms like hard to breath, etc. She's 38 very healthy, and of course is vaccinated now too. My oldest Daughter also caught Covid along with her 8 year old daughter. Both got very sick, mostly my kid though. For over a week she was very touch and go on needing hospitalization too. shes, anti vac too, but has recovered and thank goodness for that. Tired of people believing shit on facebook over CDC and fact check sited, fox news loving bullshit people, just please look around. These hospitals ARE NOT full of flu people, it isn't the same. This is serious, and and a very bad look for us as a world leading nation. Embarrassed to my core. I am proud of the hard work the scientists have done, getting this vaccine out to us in a very short time, we can rally around these brave men and women that are on the front lines, the amazing nurses and doctors that treat us no matter our beliefs but we have a long way to go still, I have to have hope that we can overcome these lies that have deeply imbedded a large group in our very country that are showing no signs of reality, and it's horrifying! 

 

PS: This was supposed to be a quick response, but I'm a rambler with a long history of evergoing soliloquies. I just do me. I also know there's a lot of spelling errors and other missuses sentence structure. I'm just gonna leave it, delete it if you want to. Not caring today!

[stepee]

On 10/20/2021 at 1:25 PM, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

Hey, I use Duckduckgo and guess what? It's the same info as Google.

 

 

lol yeah, it’s just an actual search engine combining from other actual search engines so you’ll get the same information. It’s just something to say further blocking off paths of what’s considered as acceptable sources for truth.

 

If you correct them on that, then it’s something else, and on and on until you are only left with right wing propaganda outlets as accepted sources of info and find yourself living in a fantasy land.

 

 

[best3444]

The vaccine has been very productive and has helped countless lives. I haven't been sick since getting the shots and feel safe that I did. I'm still very responsible towards my 82yr old mother and father. 

[Kal-El814]

On 10/20/2021 at 1:56 PM, stepee said:

This shit cracks me up because you know the people saying this have no fucking clue what sequencing a genome is, like seriously, their entire expertise on the matter is having memorized the line “they couldn’t even sequence the genome of covid” , which anyone can see is false if they have 5 seconds and access to google.

 

Then again, my dad who is into this dumb shit too says now that google is also msm fake news and all the results lead you to false information so anything you find on google is wrong.  You have to use duckduckgo or something and I’m not kidding.

 

The entire thing is so pointless, these people have removed all possible avenues for anything true to be accepted as facts. Something can now only be true if it comes from a fringe source. Things are considered false just BECAUSE they are proven and accepted to be true.

 

They talk about sheep but my lord it’s like they all get a pamphlet and read off it verbatim. They do and believe whatever right wing pundits/pols tell them, word for word. I’ve never seen a mass of people so led by a leash by their politicians than the current maga crowd of republican and they somehow have no awareness of what’s being done to them. The only consistency they have is who they follow, since what they believe in can change based on what the people they follow feed to them.

 

Somehow they don’t realize that by making everything “msm”, that all mainstream information is fake, they think they are being unique free thinkers, but all they did was create a bubble for themselves where something can only be true if they are told so first by right wing propaganda.

 

The company I work for develops cancer detection assays and genomic sequencing is something we do literally every day. I talk to these people literally every day. We have something like 2,000 employees. Our parent company probably employs >100K people. And we're one company in our respective space. The tests we develop eventually get reviewed by the FDA and equivalent, international regulatory bodies when we look to secure reimbursement. So genomic sequencing happens all the time, and if some accepts that it happens for cancer, then it should be easy to accept it can happen for other things.

 

I don't think the boobs who say stuff like "COVID has never been sequenced" have an appreciation for the notion that "faking it" would mean that between scientists, first responders, medical professionals, people in logistics, etc., there are something like hundreds of thousands if not millions of people engaging in the world's largest pandemic LARP. It's the stupidest fucking notion in the world.