Jump to content

GabeN bans all NFT/blockchain games from Steam, update: Tim Epic says that he's "open" to NFT/blockchain games on EGS


Commissar SFLUFAN
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Commissar SFLUFAN changed the title to GabeN bans all NFT/blockchain games from Steam, update: Tim Epic says that he's "open" to NFT/blockchain games
  • Commissar SFLUFAN changed the title to GabeN bans all NFT/blockchain games from Steam, update: Tim Epic says that he's "open" to NFT/blockchain games on EGS

I will have to start keeping an eye on new EGS releases. I'm kinda looking for an NFT game to make some money on. I honestly wasn't so hot on the EGS when it launched and it took free Remnant for me to get on there but I am liking some of the things they do a lot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not aware of NFT games, but given that NFTs themselves are basically a scam, I can't blame Epic or Valve for not wanting scam based games on their platforms.

 

That said, it is a pretty thin line between having in game currencies like ISK in EVE that have a direct correlations to real money and are only transferable in game to what I presume an NFT based game would have, which is an in game currency or object that has real monetary value that may be transferable outside of the game. Hell, Valve itself tried to make a card game where each digital card had an assignable value. The fact that it's being tracked on the blockchain doesn't seem like it should matter.

 

However, it also doesn't seem like it should matter to the players either. If a digital Magic card is tradable and has some monetary value, it shouldn't matter if it's ownership is being tracked in an open blockchain or in some dev's private servers. Especially if that item only has value in a game that is wholly controlled by one company. What possible value could an NFT that tracks an in game item have if that game isn't supported anymore?

 

So yeah, consider me unbothered by NFT's exclusion from game stores.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I'm not aware of NFT games, but given that NFTs themselves are basically a scam, I can't blame Epic or Valve for not wanting scam based games on their platforms.

 

That said, it is a pretty thin line between having in game currencies like ISK in EVE that have a direct correlations to real money and are only transferable in game to what I presume an NFT based game would have, which is an in game currency or object that has real monetary value that may be transferable outside of the game. Hell, Valve itself tried to make a card game where each digital card had an assignable value. The fact that it's being tracked on the blockchain doesn't seem like it should matter.

 

However, it also doesn't seem like it should matter to the players either. If a digital Magic card is tradable and has some monetary value, it shouldn't matter if it's ownership is being tracked in an open blockchain or in some dev's private servers. Especially if that item only has value in a game that is wholly controlled by one company. What possible value could an NFT that tracks an in game item have if that game isn't supported anymore?

 

So yeah, consider me unbothered by NFT's exclusion from game stores.

 

For smaller devs there's probably a lower barrier of entry for "put it on someone else's blockchain" than "build out our own secure infrastructure". I don't know if anyone else offers those kinds of services and even then, it wouldn't be "free" to maintain like NFTs would be too devs. Free because it might be free to them compared to running a bunch of servers, but that's in exchange for burning the atmosphere. Those are just minor details, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

For smaller devs there's probably a lower barrier of entry for "put it on someone else's blockchain" than "build out our own secure infrastructure". I don't know if anyone else offers those kinds of services and even then, it wouldn't be "free" to maintain like NFTs would be too devs. Free because it might be free to them compared to running a bunch of servers, but that's in exchange for burning the atmosphere. Those are just minor details, though.

I've never written any blockchain software, and nothing more than toy games, but I'm dubious as to how "free" maintaining in-game items as NFTs would be. Unless the game client itself is checking the blockchain to see what items I own, you probably have some internal database you're maintaining. You could be right though, that as an indie dev it might be cheaper or easier to some significant degree.

 

 

 

I started looking for a better explanation of why you'd want a blockchain based game and have to say that I don't find the arguments very compelling.

This is a terrible example since all the punitive action taken by Blizzard had to do with their eSports system.

 

This article seems to point towards ever lasting digital goods as the best case for NFT games. They tell you to imagine what a world it would be if your Pokemon you collected on the gameboy had been stored in the blockchain for you to retrieve in later games.

 

That's all well and good, but that requires a very specific scenario of someone building a game using a decentralized storage system, and then building a new game that used the same one. I think about the shift from Destiny to Destiny 2. They still had all the player data, but it wasn't worth it for Bungie to import all those old characters. They wanted to start from scratch. Where the data was stored was never an issue, had all that gear was in NFTs, it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Besides, if they shut the servers down for good, it wouldn't matter where your gear was stored. Heck, a single patch could easily prevent any existing NFTs from working.

 

Maybe there's a case to be made for an open source NFT game, but now you're getting into pretty hypothetical territory.

 

Reading a bit about Age of Rust, I don't see much reason to ban it. If Valve and Epic want to review individual games to make sure they're not scams, I don't think NFTs are necessarily evil, but I can't blame them for assuming that it's easier to brush aside the whole issue.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I've never written any blockchain software, and nothing more than toy games, but I'm dubious as to how "free" maintaining in-game items as NFTs would be. Unless the game client itself is checking the blockchain to see what items I own, you probably have some internal database you're maintaining. You could be right though, that as an indie dev it might be cheaper or easier to some significant degree.

 

 

 

I started looking for a better explanation of why you'd want a blockchain based game and have to say that I don't find the arguments very compelling.

This is a terrible example since all the punitive action taken by Blizzard had to do with their eSports system.

 

This article seems to point towards ever lasting digital goods as the best case for NFT games. They tell you to imagine what a world it would be if your Pokemon you collected on the gameboy had been stored in the blockchain for you to retrieve in later games.

 

That's all well and good, but that requires a very specific scenario of someone building a game using a decentralized storage system, and then building a new game that used the same one. I think about the shift from Destiny to Destiny 2. They still had all the player data, but it wasn't worth it for Bungie to import all those old characters. They wanted to start from scratch. Where the data was stored was never an issue, had all that gear was in NFTs, it wouldn't have made a lick of difference. Besides, if they shut the servers down for good, it wouldn't matter where your gear was stored. Heck, a single patch could easily prevent any existing NFTs from working.

 

Maybe there's a case to be made for an open source NFT game, but now you're getting into pretty hypothetical territory.

 

Reading a bit about Age of Rust, I don't see much reason to ban it. If Valve and Epic want to review individual games to make sure they're not scams, I don't think NFTs are necessarily evil, but I can't blame them for assuming that it's easier to brush aside the whole issue.

 

NFTs are evil because it's running your AC on blast out the front door all week just to make a single transaction. It's an incredibly wasteful way of doing anything and the world will be better off when all proof of work cryptocurrencies go away.

 

The thing about NFTs is that, conceivably, they never go away. If your Pokedex were an NFT, there's no way The Pokemon Company could never delete it and anyone else that wanted to do interesting things with your Pokedex data would be able to because all the data is right there. You know, as long as you don't lose your own token proving your ownership. If you did then it's lost forever and there's no way to ever recover it, oh well. Also, you'd have to assume Game Freak will forever make Pokemon games that use those NFTs. If the next entry stored Pokemon elsewhere, then too bad. However, if they did use NFTs then there could, conceivably, be an open market for trading and selling Pokemon. That would work out as well as you could possibly imagine. Also, every Pokemon sold is like chucking a burning tree into the stratosphere, so you know, totally worth it 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

NFTs are evil because it's running your AC on blast out the front door all week just to make a single transaction. It's an incredibly wasteful way of doing anything and the world will be better off when all proof of work cryptocurrencies go away.

 

The thing about NFTs is that, conceivably, they never go away. If your Pokedex were an NFT, there's no way The Pokemon Company could never delete it and anyone else that wanted to do interesting things with your Pokedex data would be able to because all the data is right there. You know, as long as you don't lose your own token proving your ownership. If you did then it's lost forever and there's no way to ever recover it, oh well. Also, you'd have to assume Game Freak will forever make Pokemon games that use those NFTs. If the next entry stored Pokemon elsewhere, then too bad. However, if they did use NFTs then there could, conceivably, be an open market for trading and selling Pokemon. That would work out as well as you could possibly imagine. Also, every Pokemon sold is like chucking a burning tree into the stratosphere, so you know, totally worth it 

 

Games are constantly rebalancing mechanics and it's tremendously easy for a game developer to just say the game no longer supports a certain version of an item that you "permanently" own. The whole idea is just inconsistent with how games work and are iterated on.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, legend said:

Games are constantly rebalancing mechanics and it's tremendously easy for a game developer to just say the game no longer supports a certain version of an item that you "permanently" own. The whole idea is just inconsistent with how games work and are iterated on.

 

Of course. It's silly to think otherwise. The only franchise that could make some sense using collectable NFTs is Pokemon, but The Pokemon Company and Nintendo are more than large enough to be able to afford their own servers to keep track of this stuff on their own while retaining full control of the market. They'd gain nothing but a few extra centimeters of Japan lost to the Pacific.

 

What other gaming franchise out there really deserves a collection of digital goods that's lasted decades across multiple platforms and generations? Still, how badly does anyone need that Gen 1 Charizard they evolved back in '98? At least they're still making Pokemon games and the franchise hasn't slowed down in the slightest. Is Age of Rust or any of these games really such evergreen franchises that we should expect to still need those NFTs we killed some polar bears over thirty years from now?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

NFTs are evil because it's running your AC on blast out the front door all week just to make a single transaction. It's an incredibly wasteful way of doing anything and the world will be better off when all proof of work cryptocurrencies go away.

 

This is so incredibly uninformed that I am just half tempted to reply you are evil for owning an AC unit even. Those coins used to make NFT's are already farmed it's like blaming one person on an airplane for all of its pollution. Proof of work crypto does need to go away Etherium is supposed to be switching to proof of stake and Cardano already is. Honestly proof of work cryptocurrencies wouldn't be an issue if the world was serious about green energy but here we are.

 

12 hours ago, legend said:

 

Games are constantly rebalancing mechanics and it's tremendously easy for a game developer to just say the game no longer supports a certain version of an item that you "permanently" own. The whole idea is just inconsistent with how games work and are iterated on.

 

I have a problem with certain types of games rebalancing stuff all the time (and really annoyed MTG Arena just did it with their digital only cards). However I have some ideas on how to use NFT's in a game that I think has potential. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, DPCyric said:

 

This is so incredibly uninformed that I am just half tempted to reply you are evil for owning an AC unit even. Those coins used to make NFT's are already farmed it's like blaming one person on an airplane for all of its pollution. Proof of work crypto does need to go away Etherium is supposed to be switching to proof of stake and Cardano already is. Honestly proof of work cryptocurrencies wouldn't be an issue if the world was serious about green energy but here we are.

 

Every new NFT sold is a new NFT mined. Since Ethereum is a proof of work crypto, every transaction is incredibly energy inefficient.

 

business_nft_climate.jpg?mbid=social_ret
WWW.WIRED.COM

The sale of a piece of crypto art consumed as much energy as the studio uses in two years. Now the artist is campaigning to reduce the medium’s carbon emissions.

 

Correction. Calling it energy inefficient is an understatement. Every Ethereum transaction sucks. All of these proof of work cryptos can fuck off and NFTs attaching themselves to one such blockchain certainly isn't helping.

 

power.jpg
DIGICONOMIST.NET

The Ethereum Energy Consumption Index provides the latest estimate of the total energy consumption of the Ethereum network.

 

The common argument I hear is that NFTs aren't responsible for the waste that is Ethereum, but that's like arguing my wife's engagement ring didn't feed the trade of blood diamonds. They're just lies we tell ourselves so we can sleep at night while we're leaving a Waterworld to our grandkids.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DPCyric said:

I have a problem with certain types of games rebalancing stuff all the time (and really annoyed MTG Arena just did it with their digital only cards). However I have some ideas on how to use NFT's in a game that I think has potential. 

 

I'm sure developers have made bad rebalancing decisions at various times. But a game without any rebalacing is probably doomed and then the only resolution is people move on to a different game or sequel.

 

I suspect you probably don't actually need NFTs for a game. Just digitally sign whatever content you were thinking about using as an NFT and let the users hold onto their own data.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, legend said:

 

I'm sure developers have made bad rebalancing decisions at various times. But a game without any rebalacing is probably doomed and then the only resolution is people move on to a different game or sequel.

 

I suspect you probably don't actually need NFTs for a game. Just digitally sign whatever content you were thinking about using as an NFT and let the users hold onto their own data.

 

I think the main problem is developers just do they lazy thing and nerf stuff instead of bringing weaker stuff up. Also developers tend to listen to the loudest voices which tend to just be the whiners that really don't know what's good for the game. I watched Duelyst tank over bad balancing and a few other things so I steered clear of Godfall.

 

@SimpleG no the changes to Davril's Withering and Davril himself. Also the changes to the Companion rule in paper was concerning. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose the one thing that does make sense to me about using NFTs in game is that it would open up trading of those items possibly without the need for the dev to maintain an API. The relative permanence of the blockchain does absolutely nothing to guarantee an in game item will remain available or usable, but it might make it easier for devs to allow players to build their own marketplaces.

 

A decent API could accomplish the same thing, but I suppose you could kind of get that "for free" by using the blockchain. Of course, any game to use such a system would effectively be making real money purchases of digital items common, and would be doing so without the dev getting a cut. If you're going to build a game around the idea that in game items can be bought and sold for real money (like Artifact), it makes a lot more sense for the dev to just build the storefront and make some money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, SimpleG said:

Memory lapse ban ?

 

Eh, they suspended it should just banned it and gave is the wildcards. Don't know if my edited @ in the last post pinged you or not. Granted I don't think Lapse ban was the right call and so far my concerns seem to have been warranted. Honestly I think they should have just unbanned some of the stuff they never even gave a chance when Strixhaven came out (was kinda insane they let Brainstorm loose but thought Bolt, StP, Natural Order and Dark Ritual were too good).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...