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Spider-Man: No Way Home Trailer and Discussion Thread


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It seems like Doctor Strange would know better than to cast a spell with such a wide-reaching and potentially weird effects like erasing parts of an entire planets memory, but I guess I have to see the movie and how they get to the point where that seems like a good idea...

 

Still looks great!

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1 hour ago, silentbob said:


Still Loki’s fault because the time bureau would of reset the timeline to stop this shit from happening in the first place. Since no one is in control ‘Control’ they were allowing these branches to occur at the end of Loki. 

 

This is the one. There are always people running around fucking up the multiverse. The TVA was just able to keep it all in check. Loki, well Sylvie, has stopped that from happening. Strange would have been stopped were it not for them.

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1 hour ago, ort said:

It seems like Doctor Strange would know better than to cast a spell with such a wide-reaching and potentially weird effects like erasing parts of an entire planets memory, but I guess I have to see the movie and how they get to the point where that seems like a good idea...

 

Still looks great!

 

It doesn't seem that far-fetched that he's probably overcome with ego. At this point in the character's life, he's gone from being a top neuro surgeon that's done things people said were impossible, to becoming Sorcerer Supreme and being told he's the best of them, and then being the one to devise a way to defeat the effects of the Infinity Stones against impossible odds. So he's pretty high off of his own success by this point.

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4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Dune is fated to fail commercially based on its own merits regardless of the marketing :p

 

Stuff like Dune and Blade Runner are absolutely niche properties That predominantly vocal, male audiences chatter endlessly about them online does not change that fact, their appeal is inherently limited compared to more mainstream stuff.

 

And I say this as someone who loves both franchises.

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4 hours ago, silentbob said:


Still Loki’s fault because the time bureau would of reset the timeline to stop this shit from happening in the first place. Since no one is in control ‘Control’ they were allowing these branches to occur at the end of Loki. 

 

That makes sense, I suppose Strange wouldn't know about that and blame himself directly.

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The TVA is decidedly not opposed to all timeline / multiverse fuckery… they allowed Strange to delve the future, the time heist to happen, Cap come back with an alternate shield, etc. I don’t think we can assume that the TVA would stop to what Strange is doing here; if it was “supposed to happen” they’d have let it.

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23 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Also I think there's a distinction between alternate timelines and alternate dimensions. The TVA deals STRICTLY with the Timeline. Interdimensional fuckery is out of their purview. This movie seems to be dealing with the latter.

 

I don't agree with that distinction. I think for the purposes of the MCU, timelines/dimensions are the same thing.

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I was almost getting a kind of “It’s a Wonderful Life” vibe. Like Dr. Strange creates a massive spell so Peter can learn a lesson about appreciating where he is what he has and seeing the bright side, or whatever. Or just not asking him for really big, world altering spells. 
 

maybe they’re trying to give those vibes as a kind of misdirection, or I read things wrong. Neither would be a first for a Marvel trailer. 

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4 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

I don't agree with that distinction. I think for the purposes of the MCU, timelines/dimensions are the same thing.

I don't think we know for sure yet but we'll find out when the movie comes out. Both Ant Man and Dr Strange have dealt with other dimensions in their films that had nothing to do with time travel or altering the "sacred timeline" which again, is the main thing that the TVA is concerned with. I know in the comics, Alternate Timelines and Alternate Dimensions are two VERY different things. Alternate time lines are timelines that branch off from the main timeline depending on whatever choices are being made (which is basically what What If? is about) Alternate Dimensions run parrallel to the main dimension and are different in slight or major ways.

 

The Marvel Universe we know in the comics is based in Dimension 616 (unless they changed that) and the main DC universe is who knows what number these days. Comics have always treated timelines and dimensions as seperate things but maybe they are merging the two concepts in the movies to simplify thing? :shrug:

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6 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

I don't agree with that distinction. I think for the purposes of the MCU, timelines/dimensions are the same thing.

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I don't think we know for sure yet but we'll find out when the movie comes out. Both Ant Man and Dr Strange have dealt with other dimensions in their films that had nothing to do with time travel or altering the "sacred timeline" which again, is the main thing that the TVA is concerned with. I know in the comics, Alternate Timelines and Alternate Dimensions are two VERY different things. Alternate time lines are timelines that branch off from the main timeline depending on whatever choices are being made (which is basically what What If? is about) Alternate Dimensions run parrallel to the main dimension and are different in slight or major ways.

 

The Marvel Universe we know in the comics is based in Dimension 616 (unless they changed that) and the main DC universe is who knows what number these days. Comics have always treated timelines and dimensions as seperate things but maybe they are merging the two concepts in the movies to simplify thing? :shrug:

 

If that's true, wouldn't alternate dimensions each have their own "main" timeline that has it's own multiverse similar to "our" timeline with our multiverse in our dimension? That seems redundant and too endless. I've always taken alternate timelines and alternate dimensions to be the same thing. Now, traveling back and forth through time in one timeline is different. Time travel is different than alternate timelines/dimensions. You could theoretically time travel in just one timeline of many. 

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I can’t remember what Kang said exactly, I thought the implication was generally that timeline branches essentially create alternate universes and the TVA was created to prevent Kangs from these separate timelines from reaching out to one another across universes and coming into conflict. 

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13 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

If that's true, wouldn't alternate dimensions each have their own "main" timeline that has it's own multiverse similar to "our" timeline with our multiverse in our dimension? That seems redundant and too endless. 

Yes... Alternate dimensions have their own timelines and multiverses and all of that non-sense. It's why i said you guys could very well be right and that for the MCU, they are simplifying the concept by making alternate realities and alternate timelines the same thing. In comics, they aren't. For example, Shatterstar of the Xmen is from the future of an alternate dimension. This shit gets very complicated real quick which again, is why I said you guys could be right.

 

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

I can’t remember what Kang said exactly, I thought the implication was generally that timeline branches essentially create alternate universes and the TVA was created to prevent Kangs from these separate timelines from reaching out to one another across universes and coming into conflict. 

That's pretty much it.  The Quantum Realm in Ant Man is another dimension and that has nothing to do with time travel at all. That's why i said they are two different concepts I think. But again, i could be wrong. We'll know when the movie comes out. Dr. Strange DID have the Time Stone so that may have something to do with how he helps Peter.

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3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yes... Alternate dimensions have their own timelines and multiverses and all of that non-sense. It's why i said you guys could very well be right and that for the MCU, they are simplifying the concept by making alternate realities and alternate timelines the same thing. In comics, they aren't. For example, Shatterstar of the Xmen is from the future of an alternate dimension. This shit gets very complicated real quick which again, is why I said you guys could be right.

 

Yeah you're right about the comics, no question, I definitely think they'd simplify it for the MCU though, but we will need more info to confirm. In the comics it makes more sense but for general audiences that's a big ask.

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Also I think that the alternate timeline = alternate universe thing is kinda also implied by The Ancient One’s PowerPoint presentation in Endgame. Doesn’t she use language pretty similar to the TVA? That them going back in time and removing infinity stones would create bad realities if the stones aren’t put back right where they err taken from? That would also track with Kang / the TVA not really caring about what happened there, the Avengers behaved in a way that deliberately didn’t cause branches / alternate realities. 

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9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Yeah you're right about the comics, no question, I definitely think they'd simplify it for the MCU though, but we will need more info to confirm. In the comics it makes more sense but for general audiences that's a big ask.

I dunno... I remember a couple of years ago people thinking the whole concept of alternate realities was too much for general audiences. Spiderverse proved that wrong and alternate dimensions AND alternate timelines exist as concepts in the arrowverse too. Audiences don't seem to have too much problem following this stuff.

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8 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I dunno... I remember a couple of years ago people thinking the whole concept of alternate realities was too much for general audiences. Spiderverse proved that wrong and alternate dimensions AND alternate timelines exist as concepts in the arrowverse too. Audiences don't seem to have too much problem following this stuff.

 

I was gonna say, there's one time Barry fucks the timeline and Harry comes over from Earth 2 and immediately notices Barry's been sticking his dick in the Earth 1 timeline again because the E1 Star Labs looks different than the last time he was there. So clearly E1's timeline has nothing to do with E2's if Harry is able to tell. 

 

Then they do it again with Elseworlds, only E1's reality got overwritten so Kara could still correctly identify Barry and Oliver. 

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10 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I dunno... I remember a couple of years ago people thinking the whole concept of alternate realities was too much for general audiences. Spiderverse proved that wrong and alternate dimensions AND alternate timelines exist as concepts in the arrowverse too. Audiences don't seem to have too much problem following this stuff.

 

In broad strokes, I think there are 2 kinds of people who see these movies. People like us who talk about them on the internet and can keep up with the meta / lore, and people who just show up for pew punch pew punch, who spend no time thinking about the movies before the screen fires up, and who stop thinking about them as soon as the movie ends.

 

So yeah, I think you’re right. The audience who cares can follow this stuff easily, the audience that doesn’t care still just has fun on a movie by movie basis and doesn’t really connect the dots. I have friends who own every MCU movie on digital / blu ray or whatever and still occasionally wonder why Superman doesn’t show up to help out Spider-Man, or people who see Star Wars movies on opening night and don’t know what The Mandalorian is. Other than watching the movies they have ZERO connection to the fiction.

 

It’s wild but there’s almost certainly more of them than there are of us. :p

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1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

In broad strokes, I think there are 2 kinds of people who see these movies. People like us who talk about them on the internet and can keep up with the meta / lore, and people who just show up for pew punch pew punch, who spend no time thinking about the movies before the screen fires up, and who stop thinking about them as soon as the movie ends.

 

So yeah, I think you’re right. The audience who cares can follow this stuff easily, the audience that doesn’t care still just has fun on a movie by movie basis and doesn’t really connect the dots. I have friends who own every MCU movie on digital / blu ray or whatever and still occasionally wonder why Superman doesn’t show up to help out Spider-Man, or people who see Star Wars movies on opening night and don’t know what The Mandalorian is. Other than watching the movies they have ZERO connection to the fiction.

 

It’s wild but there’s almost certainly more of them than there are of us. :p

Star Wars Episode 3 GIF

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

 

I was gonna say, there's one time Barry fucks the timeline and Harry comes over from Earth 2 and immediately notices Barry's been sticking his dick in the Earth 1 timeline again because the E1 Star Labs looks different than the last time he was there. So clearly E1's timeline has nothing to do with E2's if Harry is able to tell. 

 

Then they do it again with Elseworlds, only E1's reality got overwritten so Kara could still correctly identify Barry and Oliver. 

Right there's plenty of examples from the arrowverse ALONE i could pull from that show these are two different conceots and that auduences seemed to be able to keep track... this stuff is so common in traditional comics that it's pretty clear to me. But Like I said, Marvel COULD be combining the two concepts, Alternate Dimensions and Timelines for simplicity's sake... we don't really know yet.

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1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

In broad strokes, I think there are 2 kinds of people who see these movies. People like us who talk about them on the internet and can keep up with the meta / lore, and people who just show up for pew punch pew punch, who spend no time thinking about the movies before the screen fires up, and who stop thinking about them as soon as the movie ends.

 

So yeah, I think you’re right. The audience who cares can follow this stuff easily, the audience that doesn’t care still just has fun on a movie by movie basis and doesn’t really connect the dots. I have friends who own every MCU movie on digital / blu ray or whatever and still occasionally wonder why Superman doesn’t show up to help out Spider-Man, or people who see Star Wars movies on opening night and don’t know what The Mandalorian is. Other than watching the movies they have ZERO connection to the fiction.

 

It’s wild but there’s almost certainly more of them than there are of us. :p

Either way, the notion that this stuff is too heady for general audiences is constantly being proven wrong. I've read comics pretty much my whole life since my stepfather introduced them to me when I was five and my mother showed little to no interest in Marvel when i was growing up. Now she's seen all of these movies more times than I have. Same with my Sister and one of my cousins. If they ever get confused by something, they go to the internet first, THEN they call me :p That's why you see so many "such and such explained" articles and youtube videos. People DO have an interest in this stuff that goes beyond the movies.

 

We're going on what, 14 years of Marvel movies being the driving for in cinema at this point? This stuff is pretty much mainstream now between the popularity of the MCU and the Arrowverse on CW, not to mention all of the other superhero shows and movies that have come out and mainstreamed popular comic book tropes. 

 

All of this is besides the point though. We still don't know how Marvel is handling the Multiverse/Timeline stuff but all indications seem to be that Phase 4 is building to some kind of multiversal threat that I think will be bigger than Kang ultimately. You have the introduction of The Watcher on What if? Kang on Loki, and The Celestials in the Eternals. Gorr the God Butcher will be in the next Thor and Adam Warlock is coming in the next Guardians. Marvel seems to be really leaning into their cosmic lore for Phase 4 so who's left as a big bad antagonist? I'm thinking they're either building up to Galactus and the introduction of the Fantastic Four or The Beyonder and some version of Secret War :o

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7 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Either way, the notion that this stuff is too heady for general audiences is constantly being proven wrong. I've read comics pretty much my whole life since my stepfather introduced them to me when I was five and my mother showed little to no interest in Marvel when i was growing up. Now she's seen all of these movies more times than I have. Same with my Sister and one of my cousins. If they ever get confused by something, they go to the internet first, THEN they call me :p That's why you see so many "such and such explained" articles and youtube videos. People DO have an interest in this stuff that goes beyond the movies.

 

We're going on what, 14 years of Marvel movies being the driving for in cinema at this point? This stuff is pretty much mainstream now between the popularity of the MCU and the Arrowverse on CW, not to mention all of the other superhero shows and movies that have come out and mainstreamed popular comic book tropes. 

 

All of this is besides the point though. We still don't know how Marvel is handling the Multiverse/Timeline stuff but all indications seem to be that Phase 4 is building to some kind of multiversal threat that I think will be bigger than Kang ultimately. You have the introduction of The Watcher on What if? Kang on Loki, and The Celestials in the Eternals. Gorr the God Butcher will be in the next Thor and Adam Warlock is coming in the next Guardians. Marvel seems to be really leaning into their cosmic lore for Phase 4 so who's left as a big bad antagonist? I'm thinking they're either building up to Galactus and the introduction of the Fantastic Four or The Beyonder and some version of Secret War :o

 

You forgot America Chavez in Dr Strange. She's not alternate timeline, but alternate dimension in the comics. Where she comes from in Dr Strange 2 should definitively settle the angle they're going for.

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Just now, Ghost_MH said:

 

You forgot America Chavez in Dr Strange. She's not alternate timeline, but alternate dimension in the comics. Where she comes from in Dr Strange 2 should definitively settle the angle they're going for.

I forgot she's in that too... good call. I'm not TOO familier with her character though but I know who she is.

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8 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Either way, the notion that this stuff is too heady for general audiences is constantly being proven wrong

 

Whether it's heady or not, I personally think it's dumb. Infinite timelines in infinite universes, while maybe not too much to keep track of, just seems silly, But hey, if they make the characters matter and the drama potent, I'm in.

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38 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Whether it's heady or not, I personally think it's dumb. Infinite timelines in infinite universes, while maybe not too much to keep track of, just seems silly, But hey, if they make the characters matter and the drama potent, I'm in.


There is only one way they can fix it

 

Season 4 Falling GIF by Rick and Morty

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On 8/25/2021 at 3:37 PM, Greatoneshere said:

 

Whether it's heady or not, I personally think it's dumb. Infinite timelines in infinite universes, while maybe not too much to keep track of, just seems silly, But hey, if they make the characters matter and the drama potent, I'm in.


It certainly lowers the stakes and drama in my mind when every character is just one variation of an infinite number of themselves

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42 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It certainly lowers the stakes and drama in my mind when every character is just one variation of an infinite number of themselves

 

As long as we don't deal with variations that are too close to one another, it shouldn't really matter. Like, if movie Loki dies, it's not just a continuation of the character if he's replaced with Sylvie. If not, then it wouldn't be a big deal when Peter Parker dies and is replaced by Miles.

 

I'd completely agree if we start dealing with the Dr Strange that started his day with latte vs the other Dr Strange that went for an Americano.

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Purely speculative spoilers based on my earlier comments about Dr. Strange knowing better...

 

I've seen some online theories that the Doctor Strange we see in the trailer is actually Mephisto tricking Peter...



 

Makes some amount of sense...

 

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