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as a generation we are saddled by student debt, poor job prospects and economy generally, two "once in a generation" economic crashes, a pandemic, unsustainable health care and child care costs, to say nothing of housing and transportation costs. So it's not hard to see why the birth rate is cratering after peaking around 2008.

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I've never not had health insurance as an adult. It's really cool that I still got saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt after my child. First there was a miscarriage that the insurance didn't really cover because just waiting to naturally abort at home on a toilet is cheaper and then she nearly died after being in labor for a week. That was all pretty cool. I'm not even getting into the life saving surgery my son needed at less than a month old that left us even more in debt. Best part? Since he was so young they put us up in the children cancer ward which was a very nice wing of the hospital...and also apparently charges way more. That was all really cool. At least he was born in late December so he counted as a tax break for the entire year :rolleyes:

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There has basically never been a time in my adult life where the cost of having a child wasn't pure insanity. And those few times where it wasn't, in hindsight I am glad I didn't.

 

Watching my niece and her fiance go through their 20's now having the exact same experience.

 

Advocating for the right of a clump of cells to conceal carry a gun should not make you the party of family values. Advocating policies that make it fucking mathematically feasible to have a child should.....or at least be a decent start.

 

 

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No complaints here! Raising kids is really hard and the costs both to the planet and your bank account are devastating. Economies will find a way to adapt to less people. 

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There’s a lot of factors that probably go into this. The shitty economy is one of them, but maybe not the sole reason either. We are the therapy generation. More of us are becoming aware of our own traumas that were passed on to us from our parents - trauma that are parents were simply not aware they had. So we are fully aware how easy it is to screw kids up, thus this generation views child rearing as a huge responsibility rather than an obligation. Plus, there are a growing amount of people my age that question the ethics of brining a child into a world where fascism and climate change are increasing at alarming rates.

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I’m glad we had babies when we were young and didn’t know any better. The wife and I have three and I’ll be 42 when my youngest graduates high school. 
 

One thing I’ve noticed in my friend group is that it’s actually the higher income earners who are either choosing not to have kids at all or waiting until later in life. They like the lifestyle they can live, not just financially, but also in regards to freedom to go and do what they would like both on a daily basis but also things like packing up and moving to a new city just for the experience of it. 

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2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

One thing I’ve noticed in my friend group is that it’s actually the higher income earners who are either choosing not to have kids at all or waiting until later in life

World News GIF by MOODMAN

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15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

We have an overpopulation problem anyway, and most people make terrible parents anyway and shouldn't be parents. This is good.


Sadly it seems those are the ones that are pumping out kids like they are on the clock at the factory. 

 

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The sooner we go extinct, the better!* Especially before we invent uploading our consciousness into machines.

 

*from an anti-natalist point of view. Being born is an affront to agency and freedom of choice.

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I certainly see this with my immediate millennial friends and family. Most of them don't have kids and likely won't (including me and my wife). Most of those that do have kids will stick with the one. Of the folks that have multiple kids, one couple had twins, and one person had multiple unplanned pregnancies. Pretty much all of this group is well educated and making decent money.

 

Even the contrast with the Gen Xers I know is severe, which seems to be indicated on the graph in the OP.

 

I have a hard time imagining this being something that turns around too much anytime soon. I think the pandemic will be a downward blip, but the overall trend seems likely to continue bar some significant change.

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40 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

We have an overpopulation problem anyway, and most people make terrible parents anyway and shouldn't be parents. This is good.

Those terrible ppl are still having kids tho

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I've always wanted children despite being a millenial but it hasn't worked out so far. My first kid, if you can call it that, was a miscarriage when I was very young, the second ended in abortion and the last chance went out the window with a divorce. I give zero fucks if having a child is bad for the planet nor do I worry whether I'll be a perfect parent or any of that, at this point in my life I just want another shot at having one really. 

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2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

I've never not had health insurance as an adult. It's really cool that I still got saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt after my child. First there was a miscarriage that the insurance didn't really cover because just waiting to naturally abort at home on a toilet is cheaper and then she nearly died after being in labor for a week. That was all pretty cool. I'm not even getting into the life saving surgery my son needed at less than a month old that left us even more in debt. Best part? Since he was so young they put us up in the children cancer ward which was a very nice wing of the hospital...and also apparently charges way more. That was all really cool. At least he was born in late December so he counted as a tax break for the entire year :rolleyes:

How's he doing now, you guys doing okay? 

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5 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I've always wanted children despite being a millenial but it hasn't worked out so far. My first kid, if you can call it that, was a miscarriage when I was very young, the second ended in abortion and the last chance went out the window with a divorce. I give zero fucks if having a child is bad for the planet nor do I worry whether I'll be a perfect parent or any of that, at this point in my life I just want another shot at having one really. 

 

You shouldn't worry about it being bad for the planet. We don't have a problem with population. Our issues are resource distribution and needing to make a society works better with the enviroment. 

 

I am also doing my part. Didn't have any children with my ex-wife and am single since my ex-gf. I love kids and want to be a father but at the same time we live in a pretty grimdark timeline so I don't think it's a good idea. 

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My mother wants me to have kids (need a woman as well) It’s just not affordable to do it as the rich get richer and nothing for the minions that run the shit (for the most part) Housing is another huge issue, especially in the Greater Toronto Area like where I live. My mom had the property taxes sent out and tell you your house value and we are around $380k value, according to the city. Meanwhile Covid hits and everyone wants out of the city into my area. Houses on my street shot through the fucking roof. About 2 months ago we had 1 go for over a million  and the other just shy of it. Then yesterday a house across the street about 5 houses up went for $1.6M. 
 

so I can’t afford the house to put a kid in or the money to raise them. I think this goes for a good portion of people out there now. The lockdowns don’t help either in me finding a new job

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2 minutes ago, Zaku3 said:

 

You shouldn't worry about it being bad for the planet. We don't have a problem with population. Our issues are resource distribution and needing to make a society works better with the enviroment. 

I'm good with that too. My personal desire for children supersedes any fucks I could give about any bigger picture. They'll figure it out...or maybe they won't, I'll be dead then and won't care. Hopefully my kid will be some Interstellar level shit and save the planet and everyone goes hooray Bloodporne you're not only really good at From Software games but also saved the planet and everyone now gets along and war is solved!

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2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

I've never not had health insurance as an adult. It's really cool that I still got saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt after my child. First there was a miscarriage that the insurance didn't really cover because just waiting to naturally abort at home on a toilet is cheaper and then she nearly died after being in labor for a week. That was all pretty cool. I'm not even getting into the life saving surgery my son needed at less than a month old that left us even more in debt. Best part? Since he was so young they put us up in the children cancer ward which was a very nice wing of the hospital...and also apparently charges way more. That was all really cool. At least he was born in late December so he counted as a tax break for the entire year :rolleyes:

 

I understand your pain as me and the wife have gone through multiple miscarriages ourselves (2 were around 20 weeks). After going through the first one in Canada I realized if we were in the states (i'm from Cali) that it would have destroyed us financially and I probably would have given up on having kids right there. 

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17 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

How's he doing now, you guys doing okay? 

 

He just turned 5 in December. He's been a skinny twig since the surgery and can't gain weight, but he's healthy and fine in every other sense. I guess that's what happens when you have to cut a chunk out of a newborn's gastrointestinal track. It'll catch up to him. He can finally eat like a small monster, but he'll never catch up to his sisters. He'll likely forever have his growth stunted. My wife and I are really short, so he was already working with poor stock. Like, my 3yo is in the 100th percentile for weight and 90th for height and is a chunk of pure muscle. She's already outgrowing 6yo clothes, so my son is doomed. It's a little scary since she's autistic, but she's super sweet so fingers crossed. I hope nobody tries to bully her when she gets older because she won't know not to stomp on fools.

 

My wife and I make fairly good money for anywhere else in the US, and above average for Massachusetts. We're doing...fine. Our credit took a nasty hit thanks to all that medical debt, that we finally almost dug out of until COVID hit. Nothing like losing half your income for a year.  Can't complain too much. Working for a government contractor does have its perks. The Army doesn't cut back on expenses when the rest of the government is trying to hold the economy together.

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We could afford a kid, but we’ve never wanted any. Love our lifestyle and finances being child free. Even before the world got shittier, I’ve just never wanted kids. I remember being a kid and never wanting any for my future. 
 

Plus, we’re on track to retire early and comfortably. I don’t wanna mess that up. 

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I had a child in my mid-thirties. Would I have liked her earlier? Sure but it takes time to find a partner, build a life together, and get your ducks in a row. I don’t think it’s a big deal that we are on the older side. Most people in the area are in a similar situation. The only expense that is completely out of control is daycare costs. We pay $1700 a month for it and that’s the lower end.

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1 minute ago, chakoo said:

I understand your pain as me and the wife have gone through multiple miscarriages ourselves (2 were around 20 weeks). After going through the first one in Canada I realized if we were in the states (i'm from Cali) that it would have destroyed us financially and I probably would have given up on having kids right there. 

 

That's exactly it. My wife had a few failed pregnancies before our first, but needed a DNC for one where she was some 18 weeks along. Our insurance was willing to cover medication to induce an abortion, but not the the procedure itself since it wasn't life threatening. Nothing like hearing from the insurance that you either pay for it all out of pocket or go home with some pills and wait anywhere from 1 to 4 weeks...if the pills actually do their thing. I told the hospital to schedule the surgery for as soon as possible and just bill me for the costs. That doesn't even cover the costs of the all the ultrasounds and tests she went through in the preceding weeks as doctors tried to see if the pregnancy was salvageable.

 

Anyone that thinks or current system is great is either wealthy or has lived a wildly lucky/comfortable life.

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22 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

He just turned 5 in December. He's been a skinny twig since the surgery and can't gain weight, but he's healthy and fine in every other sense. I guess that's what happens when you have to cut a chunk out of a newborn's gastrointestinal track. It'll catch up to him. He can finally eat like a small monster, but he'll never catch up to his sisters. He'll likely forever have his growth stunted. My wife and I are really short, so he was already working with poor stock. Like, my 3yo is in the 100th percentile for weight and 90th for height and is a chunk of pure muscle. She's already outgrowing 6yo clothes, so my son is doomed. It's a little scary since she's autistic, but she's super sweet so fingers crossed. I hope nobody tries to bully her when she gets older because she won't know not to stomp on fools.

 

My wife and I make fairly good money for anywhere else in the US, and above average for Massachusetts. We're doing...fine. Our credit took a nasty hit thanks to all that medical debt, that we finally almost dug out of until COVID hit. Nothing like losing half your income for a year.  Can't complain too much. Working for a government contractor does have its perks. The Army doesn't cut back on expenses when the rest of the government is trying to hold the economy together.

I got very lucky in a similar in that 90% of my work is in healthcare-related construction. OR renovations and so on. I actually made bank during Covid for working on temporary facilities and so on. Either way, I'm glad to hear your boy is at least relatively doing alright. You'll rattle back, cheers man 

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If I still don't want kids by the time I'm 35 I'm just going to get snipped so I don't have to worry about it anymore.

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