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Federal government oversteps its bounds, again


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The FDA said Thursday it will work toward a ban of menthol cigarettes and flavored cigars. But any menthol ban would take years to implement and will likely face legal challenges from tobacco companies.

 

I don't want people to smoke, but I also don't feel it's the government's job to prevent people from consuming tobacco.  

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There's a couple of things I hate about all this and one is the essentially religious dogmatism that anything that even LOOKS like smoking should be treated like smoking. Tobacco isn't the only source of nicotine, and nicotine isn't even the dangerous part of tobacco. 

 

For flavors, I'd feel better about just banning tobacco, I hate using "but kids like the flavors" to backdoor in restrictions. There's a better argument that tobacco is simply too dangerous to be legal. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

There's a couple of things I hate about all this and one is the essentially religious dogmatism that anything that even LOOKS like smoking should be treated like smoking. Tobacco isn't the only source of nicotine, and nicotine isn't even the dangerous part of tobacco. 

 

For flavors, I'd feel better about just banning nicotine, I hate using "but kids like the flavors" to backdoor in restrictions. 

 

Ya it's weird that I live in a state where weed is legal but I can't buy flavored ecigs/liquids.

 

Does anyone know if New York or PA have similar restrictions? As a final fuck you Zaku Trump passed a law banning the post office from mailing ecigs and such. I was flanking the restriction by buying menthol Juul pods directly from their site. They can't mail them out now so the order I got this month is my last order. The stores by me only carry tobacco flavors for some odd reason. (Methol is allowed but they don't stock it.

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

For flavors, I'd feel better about just banning nicotine, I hate using "but kids like the flavors" to backdoor in restrictions

When do you think people start smoking?

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Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

When do you think people start smoking?

 

Read what I edited in, I think it makes more sense to just outright ban tobacco. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Read what I edited in, I think it makes more sense to just outright ban tobacco. 

Does the FDA have the legal authority to ban tobacco? It seems to be treated differently by law than other drugs

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Fuck banning tobacco, in any shape or form. Just keep raising the taxes on it until no one wants to smoke anymore, that's what all the states are doing. Shit, the cigarettes I smoke are like $11.50/pack now.

 

Also I don't know how much water the whole "flavored/menthol are more inviting to kids" thing holds. I understand the whole fruit flavored vape juice thing, but menthols don't exactly taste like candy.

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I saw another tidbit that says they will push the regulate the nicotine levels to below the threshold of addiction; that seems like a much better option (assuming there is science behind it). 

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My awesome idea:  Remove nicotine from all tobacco products, but still allow nicotine laced products like vapes, gum, etc.  

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Like if you are a teenager and you are about to try smoking for the first time because you are a FUCKING BADASS REBEL, I don’t think you are really giving one shit if the cig tastes like cherry or not.

 

As a smoker who hopes to quit this year, I’m fine with measures to make it more difficult to obtain and to make it less desirable even if the logic is a bit whatever tho.

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2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

I saw another tidbit that says they will push the regulate the nicotine levels to below the threshold of addiction; that seems like a much better option (assuming there is science behind it). 

 

I thought this seemed like a good idea as well!

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I've heard a couple of radio commercials and it sounds like there is some company out there cutting out cigarettes altogether and just selling nicotine. Seems odd to me.

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3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Interesting. It seems weird to me because menthol is fucking gross, but if the science is there.

 

I would also be fine with nicotine-free tobacco products. Smoking for me is entirely oral-fixation-related. Some days I smoke half a pack, then there are some weekends when I don't smoke at all. It's just there are certain activities my brain associates with smoking. If I don't do those activities, I tend not to smoke.

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2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I've heard a couple of radio commercials and it sounds like there is some company out there cutting out cigarettes altogether and just selling nicotine. Seems odd to me.


I mean, nicotine is what makes smoking pleasurable, so it makes sense. Some smokers do enjoy the ritual or taste of it all, but for the most part it’s the nicotine rush that makes it enjoyable. 

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We get an Covid death toll from tobacco related disease in the US every year. There are externalities to those deaths that the government has legitimate interest in preventing.

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4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

I've heard a couple of radio commercials and it sounds like there is some company out there cutting out cigarettes altogether and just selling nicotine. Seems odd to me.

Nicotine has some potential benefits when disconnected from burning tar sticks.

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  • Commissar SFLUFAN changed the title to Federal government oversteps its bounds, again
2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Just ban tobacco and nicotine and then let people "smoke" whatever they want. 

 

Bans work well.  We can then have the cops kill more black people for selling tobacco, like are being killed now over other drugs. 

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1 minute ago, Chris- said:


I mean, nicotine is what makes smoking pleasurable, so it makes sense. Some smokers do enjoy the ritual or taste of it all, but for the most part it’s the nicotine rush that makes it enjoyable. 

For me, the nicotine is what got me started, but it isn't important anymore. I go days without smoking sometimes and I don't feel different. It's the ritual and the oral fixation, like there are certain activities where my brain goes "this is when you smoke now," and it's hard to resist the temptation simply because it's like my hands reach for the lighter.

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24 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Just ban tobacco and nicotine and then let people "smoke" whatever they want. 

 

From my readings I don't think nicotine is bad in and of itself. It's more the delivery method. 

 

I enjoy smoking but don't like cigarettes because they taste bad. Once vaping turned up and it being less bad then cigarettes, smells better, the oder doesn't stick to everything, etc I jumped in.

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29 minutes ago, Chris- said:


I mean, nicotine is what makes smoking pleasurable, so it makes sense. Some smokers do enjoy the ritual or taste of it all, but for the most part it’s the nicotine rush that makes it enjoyable. 

And menthol specifically lessens the burn of smoking allowing deeper inhalations.

 

Limiting nicotine in tobacco is difficult and years off at best.

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56 minutes ago, Chris- said:

I saw another tidbit that says they will push the regulate the nicotine levels to below the threshold of addiction; that seems like a much better option (assuming there is science behind it). 

 

This seems dumb given it's not the nicotine that's dangerous. 

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15 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

This seems dumb given it's not the nicotine that's dangerous. 

 

Except nicotine is what makes it addictive, which is the point. Also IIRC nicotine still has adverse affects on your vascular system. 

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As a former smoker it’s always puzzling to me that libertarian chose cigarette restrictions as a 0hill to die on. If it weren’t for the ridiculously high taxes in cigarettes I wouldn’t have quit as soon as I did, and perhaps never would have.

 

Funny that you generally don’t see libertarians concerned about all of the anti-trans bills that are currently going around. And by funny I mean completely expected.

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Libertarians just always struck me as people who got stuck at the age of around 18-20 for their whole lives in terms of their outlook on things. It's one of the most juvenile political points of view I think I've ever encountered.

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Libruls:  Let's set up safe injection sites for heroin users AND ban cigarettes.

Conservacucks: Let's wage a war on heroin and have babies smoke cigarettes.

Libertarians:  Let's set up safe injection sites and let people smoke if they want to. They can wreck their bodies if they so choose.  

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Also libertarians: "It's ephebophilia, not pedophilia!"

 

EDIT - I do agree that banning nicotine is going too far. Banning cigarettes might be too far as well...but I'd be 100% behind banning them in any place outside your own property.

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2 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

Fuck banning tobacco, in any shape or form. Just keep raising the taxes on it until no one wants to smoke anymore, that's what all the states are doing. Shit, the cigarettes I smoke are like $11.50/pack now.

 

Also I don't know how much water the whole "flavored/menthol are more inviting to kids" thing holds. I understand the whole fruit flavored vape juice thing, but menthols don't exactly taste like candy.


11.50 a pack? Yikes. I’m glad I quit like 20 years ago. 

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8 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Libruls:  Let's set up safe injection sites for heroin users AND ban cigarettes.

Conservacucks: Let's wage a war on heroin and have babies smoke cigarettes.

Libertarians:  Let's set up safe injection sites and let people smoke if they want to. They can wreck their bodies if they so choose.  

Also libertarians: have the heroin come in cool colors and flavors in hello kitty packaging

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