Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I don't know if it would make my five, but since my favorites have been mentioned plenty already, I would like to shout out Dust: An Elysian Tail. Really fun game made almost entirely by one dude. I haven't played it since it came out (almost 9 years ago, yikes!) but I have fond memories of it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

That's probably the game mentioned I'd be least likely to consider for a list.  It's, alright?  I don't have any fond memories of it, moreso just grinding for monsters abilities.  Might be the reason I haven't gotten arround to SoTN yet.

Metroid Fusion is another I'm pretty meh about.  Controls are ace, boss fights are great, and SA-X is awesome.  But otherwise, its even more straight-jacked than Other M was.  Much, much, much too linear.

 

 

Probably why I love Hollow Knight more than some of you all.  Backtracking across the map comes with the territory with Metroidvanias, IMO.  Otherwise, you might as well make it a game with world map and isolated dungeons, like Zelda II.

The map is quite large though.  So I get the complaints about distant warp points and such.  I could see someone loving Ori but disliking Hollow Knight for that reason.

 

 

Yeah Aria and Dawn are both good but grinding for souls sucks. SOTN doesn't have that problem or any other kind of filler and that's one of the main reasons I think it's better than the other Metroidvania Castlevanias so don't let your memories of Dawn of Souls keep you from it.

 

What bothered me about Fusion is that in some ways it's not a Metroidvania. As you mentioned, backtracking comes with the territory, so there shouldn't be missables in a Metroidvania since even if you get temporarily locked out of an area you can come back for what you missed eventually. In Fusion you can permanently miss upgrades. I can't remember if the game had an actual time limit or just a story one (i.e. that game says you have a hour but the time in the story doesn't advance until the next story event even if you take 3 hours to get there) but either way I didn't like feeling rushed. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember when Other M came out, and everyone was rightly shitting the trashy characterization and plot.  Controls were also love or hate.  But gradually that disappointment started to creep into negative opinions about the world structure, and I got more and more bewildered by some of it.

 

Like, did no one realize it was basically doing Fusion one better?  It's still rail guided at times, but peeled back the layers and artificial locks the further in you got.  Unlike Fusion, there's also plenty worth backtracking for.  You didn't feel as if you had completed areas the moment you got back in the elevator. 

Everyone was spoiled by the Prime series by that point.  I kind of wish Sakamoto and Team Ninja got a second chance, with the lessons learned.  But not as badly as I want Prime 4 done right.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

Probably why I love Hollow Knight more than some of you all.  Backtracking across the map comes with the territory with Metroidvanias, IMO.  Otherwise, you might as well make it a game with world map and isolated dungeons, like Zelda II.


The map is quite large though.  So I get the complaints about distant warp points and such.  I could see someone loving Ori but disliking Hollow Knight for that reason.

I know it comes with the territory, but there is a point where every prominent feature of the genre can go too far. Hollow Knight rides that line for better or worse when it comes to exploration. The warp points definitely do not help the situation much. I know it sounds like I'm complaining a lot, but I really did enjoy the game, but I felt like me having to either backtrack a huge map with little to guidance on the next step or pull out google is just a bad design choice. It held the game back for me from being a 9-10/10 and I hated the game the first 2 times I tried to play it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Nokt said:

I know it comes with the territory, but there is a point where every prominent feature of the genre can go too far. Hollow Knight rides that line for better or worse when it comes to exploration. The warp points definitely do not help the situation much. I know it sounds like I'm complaining a lot, but I really did enjoy the game, but I felt like me having to either backtrack a huge map with little to guidance on the next step or pull out google is just a bad design choice. It held the game back for me from being a 9-10/10 and I hated the game the first 2 times I tried to play it.

 

All is fair.  I don’t actually think the warp points are bad, it’s more that it can get overwhelming given the size of the map in general.  Hopefully Silksong can address this.

 

I beat it without a guide, though I understand why some would resort to it.  I don’t think it’s that much more cryptic in its progression than Super Metroid was though.  I’d go so far to say the Prime games are probably worse about it at points.  (Anything to do with ‘keys’)

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

All is fair.  I don’t actually think the warp points are bad, it’s more that it can get overwhelming given the size of the map in general.  Hopefully Silksong can address this.

 

I beat it without a guide, though I understand why some would resort to it.  I don’t think it’s that much more cryptic in its progression than Super Metroid was though.  I’d go so far to say the Prime games are probably worse about it at points.  (Anything to do with ‘keys’)

 

I think a lot of my problem with Hollow Knight is that it all kind of looks the same, and the level design is more convoluted than necessary. When I think about Super Metroid, I can visualize every room in my head because it's so unique. Hollow Knight has great art and atmosphere, but everything just blends together and you're constantly in your map trying to navigate.

 

Another thing with Super Metroid, as long as you're not sequence breaking, it really funnels you down the critical path as long as you're being the slightest bit observant. In Hollow Knight, you can go a lot of places with only a few select upgrades. I don't even think I got the second in-air dash upgrade until like 25 hours in or something, because I went one way and not another.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I get the issues people have with hollow knight, but when that game is hitting on all cylinders it nails (ha!) what it’s going for better than most games over the past decade or so.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Blaster Master

Super Metroid

Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night

Tomb Raider (Game Boy Color)

 

I have a lot of Metroidvania games for PS4 that I bought during PS Store sales, but I haven’t played most of them yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

I think a lot of my problem with Hollow Knight is that it all kind of looks the same, and the level design is more convoluted than necessary. When I think about Super Metroid, I can visualize every room in my head because it's so unique. Hollow Knight has great art and atmosphere, but everything just blends together and you're constantly in your map trying to navigate.

 

Definitely disagree there.  For remaining committed to a somber tone throughout, I think the visual diversity is actually one of the game's strongest points.

The only two areas that kind of bleed together in my mind visually are: Queen's Gardens and Greenpath.  Otherwise, there's no way I'm mistaking Deepnest for Ancient Basin, Fungal Wastes and Fog Canyon, City of Tears for Kingdom's Edge, etc.

The transition may be gradual in some screens, but that's a good thing.  And there's all sorts of neat layout touches in there, like the City of Tears' rain being caused by the lake resting above it.
 

2 hours ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

Another thing with Super Metroid, as long as you're not sequence breaking, it really funnels you down the critical path as long as you're being the slightest bit observant. In Hollow Knight, you can go a lot of places with only a few select upgrades. I don't even think I got the second in-air dash upgrade until like 25 hours in or something, because I went one way and not another.

 

I think this is more due to the size of it.  Super Metroid's heavy hand does takes a back seat for a while, after you get the Ice Beam.  There's several points in Hollow Knight I'd consider to have similar divergent paths before it narrows again.

Hollow Knight can force you down a path unwillingly.  Deepnest in particular.  I actually love that about it.  Shit feels dangerous in a 'what have I got myself into' way.  But you're still making progress regardless.  They spread the major powerups and abilities evenly around, for the most part.  You're going to pick up some abilities much earlier or later than other folks because of that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Definitely disagree there.  For remaining committed to a somber tone throughout, I think the visual diversity is actually one of the game's strongest points.

The only two areas that kind of bleed together in my mind visually are: Queen's Gardens and Greenpath.  Otherwise, there's no way I'm mistaking Deepnest for Ancient Basin, Fungal Wastes and Fog Canyon, City of Tears for Kingdom's Edge, etc.

The transition may be gradual in some screens, but that's a good thing.  And there's all sorts of neat layout touches in there, like the City of Tears' rain being caused by the lake resting above it.

 

What I meant was, within each area it all blends together. The rooms aren't memorable enough and everything is so dense that I was in my map for half the game.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bjomesphat said:

 

What I meant was, within each area it all blends together. The rooms aren't memorable enough and everything is so dense that I was in my map for half the game.

 

I sorta see it in places, there are repeating design ideas in parts.  But I think  it's more confusing remembering what connects to what than just remembering where you are.  That's also because everything is so big.  The point A to point B across the map can get daunting.  It's often hard to figure what is the most optimal route.

As far as similar looking corridors and vertical hubs, it's got a handful, but then again so do most Metroidvanias.  I beat NES Metroid without a map.  It was total bullshit, don't get me wrong.  But perhaps that speaks to my personal tolerance.  Navigating Hollow Knight is a cakewalk by comparison.  I did get to a point where I felt like I knew it.

Part of me also thinks that if Hollow Knight were as generous about the map features as other Metroidvanias, people would think differently about the structure.  For better or worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/31/2021 at 9:36 PM, crispy4000 said:

All is fair.  I don’t actually think the warp points are bad, it’s more that it can get overwhelming given the size of the map in general.  Hopefully Silksong can address this.

 

I beat it without a guide, though I understand why some would resort to it.  I don’t think it’s that much more cryptic in its progression than Super Metroid was though.  I’d go so far to say the Prime games are probably worse about it at points.  (Anything to do with ‘keys’)

Its hard to say. Still just a small nitpick in a great game. I haven't beaten Prime since near its release and I've played SM too many times to remember how cryptic anything was my first couple times playing it. It could have just been the fact that I started looking on the wrong half of the map for one of the two items I needed to get to the final dreamer. Maybe I didn't pick up on some subtle hints on where I should have been going.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Prime 2's invisible keys are seared in my memory.  It's just bad game design, straight up.  Almost ruins the game.

I don't think I've been a fan of visor-vision in any Metroid ever.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Assuming we just mean classic 2D style:

 

1. Hollow Knight, by a landslide.

 

 

2. Shadow Complex This one doesn't get mentioned a lot but I thought it was pure fun, especially back when it came out.

3. Dead Cells

4. Ori and the Will of the Wisps

5. Bloodstained

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of my favorites have already been mentioned, so I’ll shout out a few that don’t get much praise:

 

Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance 

 

Shantae and the Pirate’s Curse

 

Metroid: Samus Returns

 

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: Radical Rescue

 

Blaster Master Zero

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I just looked that one up.  Pretty slick for a Gameboy game.

 

 

Yeah it’s pretty good! And surprisingly challenging. 
 

Definitely a unique take on a Turtles’ game, since those are usually “just” brawlers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...