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Update: BBB has passed the House (220-213)


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4 hours ago, osxmatt said:

This $1.9T is over the course of 10 years, right? So it's less than $190B a year?

 

Doesn't the US spend nearly $750B on defense each year lol

Yes, and this year Biden's budget was more than the defense department asked for, and congress still passed more than $10B more than even that! All at a time when, for the first time in over a decade, we're not really at war overseas anymore. Somehow we're spending more on defense now than we were at any point during Trump, the number keeps going up, and it doesn't seem to get any debate or significant media attention.

 

That extra ~$10B is around the yearly cost that the infrastructure bill spends on roads and bridges or that Build Back Better spends to make two years of community college free.

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1 hour ago, marioandsonic said:

At this point, it might be better if we don't pass anything.

 

1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said:

Yup. Leave it alone. Don't pass anything. All these weakened versions allow the GOP more easily shut it down ala ACA

I understand the impulse, and I've got plenty of problems with the ACA, but something is still better than nothing, both in a political sense and in a real practical one. Even a severely scaled back bill would do some real good, and I'd rather the message in the next election cycle be "here's what we got so far, elect more democrats and we can do more."

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2 hours ago, TwinIon said:

 

I understand the impulse, and I've got plenty of problems with the ACA, but something is still better than nothing, both in a political sense and in a real practical one. Even a severely scaled back bill would do some real good, and I'd rather the message in the next election cycle be "here's what we got so far, elect more democrats and we can do more."

 

Well...I suppose they should pass whatever they can before the GOP wins in 2022 and 2024 and turns the US into the fourth Reich. 

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2 hours ago, TwinIon said:

 

I understand the impulse, and I've got plenty of problems with the ACA, but something is still better than nothing, both in a political sense and in a real practical one. Even a severely scaled back bill would do some real good, and I'd rather the message in the next election cycle be "here's what we got so far, elect more democrats and we can do more."

 

That, and while 4 weeks of paid leave ain't enough and should be higher, right now we have unpaid leave only. Perfect doesn't have to be the enemy of advancing a good cause and having something there. Many programs that progressives cherish were not in fully-formed when they began.

 

But what you're saying is likely falling on deaf ears. As it stands, I may have to abandon this thread. It's reading more and more like reactions from left-wing pundits and what some members' Twitter feeds look like, and regular stories on it aren't shared or discussed. And since everything is negative, everybody who broke after 2016 is going down a toilet bowl of emotions, so every 10th post is somebody talking about the end of everything.

 

Maybe it'll improve. Or not, I've kind of given up on that front. 

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23 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

That, and while 4 weeks of paid leave ain't enough and should be higher, right now we have unpaid leave only. Perfect doesn't have to be the enemy of advancing a good cause and having something there. Many programs that progressives cherish were not in fully-formed when they began.

 

But what you're saying is likely falling on deaf ears. As it stands, I may have to abandon this thread. It's reading more and more like reactions from left-wing pundits and what some members' Twitter feeds look like, and regular stories on it aren't shared or discussed. And since everything is negative, everybody who broke after 2016 is going down a toilet bowl of emotions, so every 10th post is somebody talking about the end of everything.

 

Maybe it'll improve. Or not, I've kind of given up on that front. 

Well, some of us--who aren't wordsmiths like you and Twin--share your thoughts but we just don't post them. We like reading them though. Don't abandon the thread.

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41 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

That, and while 4 weeks of paid leave ain't enough and should be higher, right now we have unpaid leave only. Perfect doesn't have to be the enemy of advancing a good cause and having something there. Many programs that progressives cherish were not in fully-formed when they began.

 

But what you're saying is likely falling on deaf ears. As it stands, I may have to abandon this thread. It's reading more and more like reactions from left-wing pundits and what some members' Twitter feeds look like, and regular stories on it aren't shared or discussed. And since everything is negative, everybody who broke after 2016 is going down a toilet bowl of emotions, so every 10th post is somebody talking about the end of everything.

 

Maybe it'll improve. Or not, I've kind of given up on that front. 


I feel like things have gotten better lately. At least Jason and especially b_m have gotten better. Or maybe I just don’t visit as much as I used to.

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It doesn't seem like anything has really changed since Senator Manchin said he wouldn't go above 1.5 trillion dollars. I skip all the outrage tweets and I'm in better mental health because of it. I'm most disappointed that the climate provisions are being gutted. A carbon tax is even supported by some oil companies.

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9 minutes ago, Joe said:


I feel like things have gotten better lately. At least Jason and especially b_m have gotten better. Or maybe I just don’t visit as much as I used to.

I've found other ways to vent since my doom posting can easily overwhelm this board

 

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23 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I suppose I'd jettison the free community college as well if I had to make hard cuts.

 

Hell, that's probably the easy, no-brainer one to make.

 

The only hard cut in this instance should be the spinal columns of a few Senators. 

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9 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

Agree with this, but it's also worth noting that these new programs don't get the analysis and attention they deserve because of the filibuster and having to put all of this in one big bill rather than several smaller bills one at a time

 

 

There's the rub, isn't it?

 

I just don't have the sense that the "theoretical" economic benefits of tax credits will be able to effectively offset the "real" economic costs of the increased provider wages.  

 

If the credit benefit could be received "up front", then that could assuage at least some of those concerns.

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1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

There's the rub, isn't it?

 

I just don't have the sense that the "theoretical" economic benefits of tax credits will be able to effectively offset the "real" economic costs of the increased provider wages.  

 

If the credit benefit could be received "up front", then that could assuage at least some of those concerns.

A particular problem when coming up against a tightened labor market where wages could increase at a rate faster than the subsidies can accommodate

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19 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

A particular problem when coming up against a tightened labor market where wages could increase at a rate faster than the subsidies can accommodate

 

Right - a situation that begs for some form of indexing methodology to be built-in to the calculations.

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When it comes to the choice between fewer programs being enacted but scaled back and with sunset dates, or fewer more robust more permanent programs, I prefer the latter. Pass the legislation with the expectation that the GOP will be in power when it's time is up. If the program, no matter how popular, goes away without them having to do anything, it'll probably go away. If they have to actually pass a bill to replace something, it's far more likely to be effective.

 

I think the ACA is actually a reasonable example in favor of that approach. The entire GOP ran against that. Their messaging was extremely effective, and the bill as a whole had a poor approval rating. Still, when it came time to replace it, they had no ideas and were unwilling to pass something that killed off the many popular parts of the bill. If you get paid family leave or community college or any of the other broadly popular provisions passed and put the GOP in a position where they'd need to enact their own legislation to take it down, and I think it's going to stick around.

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1 hour ago, TwinIon said:

When it comes to the choice between fewer programs being enacted but scaled back and with sunset dates, or fewer more robust more permanent programs, I prefer the latter. Pass the legislation with the expectation that the GOP will be in power when it's time is up. If the program, no matter how popular, goes away without them having to do anything, it'll probably go away. If they have to actually pass a bill to replace something, it's far more likely to be effective.

 

I think the ACA is actually a reasonable example in favor of that approach. The entire GOP ran against that. Their messaging was extremely effective, and the bill as a whole had a poor approval rating. Still, when it came time to replace it, they had no ideas and were unwilling to pass something that killed off the many popular parts of the bill. If you get paid family leave or community college or any of the other broadly popular provisions passed and put the GOP in a position where they'd need to enact their own legislation to take it down, and I think it's going to stick around.

 

I imagine the gamble is that if they end up being popular and set to sunset while Republicans hold power it would be politically damaging to let them expire. Which is a shitty way to run a government, but that's just how things go these days.

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“There is a sense in which we no longer live in a democracy,” New York Rep. Ritchie Torres told CNN of the caucus’ (somewhat dramatic) feelings toward Sinema, “we live under the tyranny of Kyrsten Sinema.”

 

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  • Commissar SFLUFAN changed the title to Update: BBB has passed the House (220-213)

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