Television The Falcon and the Winter Soldier OT - It's the Same but Black!

[69los]

I feel like this season was booked like a wrestling card where this episode was a bit of a cool down before the main event. 2 montages!

[skillzdadirecta]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:08 PM, silentbob said:

So who do we think the power broker is? They seem like the mysterious character they are teasing for the next episode but also made it seem like it might be someone familiar. They said they haven’t been brought into the MCU movie-verse, but never said anything about tv. Anyone think Wilson Fisk is involved, or at least working through Vanessa. I’m only thinking this because of the stolen art and her involvement with art when she met Wilson in DareDevil.

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing them also maybe try and get a Red Hulk series. No reason for it at the moment but be cool to see. 
 

The only other character I can think of maybe being introduced is Norman Osborne. Didn’t he make himself into a giant green goblin via an experimental vial of some sort? Plus he would be the perfect buyer of the old downtown Avengers Tower, and start up the Dark Avengers (I think that’s what he did)

Power Broker is either Sharon Carter of Julia Luis Dreyfuss' character that they just introduced. I highly doubt if it's The Kingpin or Norman Osborne. Sony controls the rights to that character anyway.

[Ghost_MH]

9 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Power Broker is either Sharon Carter of Julia Luis Dreyfuss' character that they just introduced. I highly doubt if it's The Kingpin or Norman Osborne. Sony controls the rights to that character anyway.

 

She's either the Power Broker...

Spoiler

...or they're doing Thunderbolts and she's the one starting up the team. Now we just need her popping up in the next five Marvel movies and TV series handing out business cards to every villain and villain-adjacent super powered person like some dark side Coulson.

 

I feel like her introduction here was supposed to make a lot more sense if Black Window were already out since she's in that movie.

[skillzdadirecta]

15 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

She's either the Power Broker...

  Reveal hidden contents

...or they're doing Thunderbolts and she's the one starting up the team. Now we just need her popping up in the next five Marvel movies and TV series handing out business cards to every villain and villain-adjacent super powered person like some dark side Coulson.

 

I feel like her introduction here was supposed to make a lot more sense if Black Window were already out since she's in that movie.

Ah so she first appears in the Black Widow movie, eh? That character was the original Nick Fury's love interest in the comics. I'm surprised they didn't go with Valerie Cooper instead. Also the Wakandans said they were taking Zemo to The Raft so I can totally see him being a part of the Thunderbolts.

[Ghost_MH]

17 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Ah so she first appears in the Black Widow movie, eh? That character was the original Nick Fury's love interest in the comics. I'm surprised they didn't go with Valerie Cooper instead. Also the Wakandans said they were taking Zemo to The Raft so I can totally see him being a part of the Thunderbolts.

 

Possibly, but I don't see how MCU Zemo does that considering his motives and distaste for supers. If we're putting together a Thunderbolts team in the MCU, I say you go US Agent, Batroc, Ghost, and...the MCU has a real problem killing off villains. Vulture is still alive, as is the Prowler even if he has yet to become the Prowler. Tim Roth will be in She Hulk, so he'd be a good choice here. He's not exactly young, but luckily the Abomination is 100% CG so he should be good.

[Ghost_MH]

So, we aren't going to talk about how...

 

Spoiler

Sharon was totally on the phone with Batroc offering him more money to...rendezvous with the Flag Smashers?

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

Possibly, but I don't see how MCU Zemo does that considering his motives and distaste for supers. If we're putting together a Thunderbolts team in the MCU, I say you go US Agent, Batroc, Ghost, and...the MCU has a real problem killing off villains. Vulture is still alive, as is the Prowler even if he has yet to become the Prowler. Tim Roth will be in She Hulk, so he'd be a good choice here. He's not exactly young, but luckily the Abomination is 100% CG so he should be good.

 

The MCU has been way to kill-happy with its villains but this is also a universe where it's not that difficult to come up with a justification for un-deading someone if the writers really want to.

[dualhunter]

There was a scene during the credits (before the Georgia Film Credit screen).

[skillzdadirecta]

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

So, we aren't going to talk about how...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Sharon was totally on the phone with Batroc offering him more money to...rendezvous with the Flag Smashers?

 

Yes because 

Spoiler

she's the Power Broker

 

[Reputator]

2 hours ago, dualhunter said:

There was a scene during the credits (before the Georgia Film Credit screen).

 

I missed this!

[johnny]

end credits scene was nothing special but i’m sure it’s cool for comic fans? 

 

liked this episode. think the finale is going to kick ass. 

[Kal-El814]

Really good episode aside from literally everything about the Flag Smashers continuing to be dumb as hell. It’s bizarrely timely with them cribbing Q’s slogan and disrupting a vote, it’s just all so nonsensical and lazy. 
 

Also was the timing of the second montage weird to anyone else? Sam and Bucky were killing the shield frisbee game and then Sam’s just whiffing? It was a cool scene, just weird that it came after the one with him and Bucky together. 

[johnny]

yeah the flag smashers have sucked every episode besides last weeks imo 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I just want to point out that the name "Flag Smashers" is non-sensical as you can't actually "smash" a flag as it's a piece of cloth.

 

"Flag Burners" would be a far better moniker.

[Reputator]

10 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I just want to point out that the name "Flag Smashers" is non-sensical as you can't actually "smash" a flag as it's a piece of cloth.

 

"Flag Burners" would be a far better moniker.

 

Literally every time I hear the name "Flag Smashers" I picture angry young adults stomping on a flag and think how stupid that looks.

[Pikachu]

Really good epiaode. Team up fight against John Walker. Sam Wilson's talk with Bradley was harrowing. The double montages, and Bucky and Sam having a good heart to heart convo. Excited to see Sam's new suit.

[cusideabelincoln]

Watched this one late at night and feel asleep halfway. Finished it this morning, and I'm not sure how I feel about Sam's turn towards taking the shield. That last montage implies Sam only feels comfortable taking up the mantle of Captain America when can finally... throw the shield really well.

 

 

13 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I just want to point out that the name "Flag Smashers" is non-sensical as you can't actually "smash" a flag as it's a piece of cloth.

 

"Flag Burners" would be a far better moniker.

Hulk accepts your challenge.

[Pikachu]

30 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Watched this one late at night and feel asleep halfway. Finished it this morning, and I'm not sure how I feel about Sam's turn towards taking the shield. That last montage implies Sam only feels comfortable taking up the mantle of Captain America when can finally... throw the shield really well.

 

 

Hulk accepts your challenge.

 

That's not correct. Sam feels more comfortable taking the mantle after his conversations with Isaiah Bradley and Sarah. He wants to prove that a black man can be accepted as Captain America.

[cusideabelincoln]

14 minutes ago, Pikachu said:

 

That's not correct. Sam feels more comfortable taking the mantle after his conversations with Isaiah Bradley and Sarah. He wants to prove that a black man can be accepted as Captain America.

 

I know, but the order/editing of the scenes made it seem the other way.  His shield training montage was just unnecessary really.  I was expecting a big moment for him taking up the shield.  But he has his talk with Isaiah and then he's still wavering.

[ort]

Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure what the flag smashers are even mad about. Who exactly are they at war with? The whole world? I don't feel like they've done a good job of really explaining the stakes.

 

I feel like this show went through a lot of re-writes or something. It feels kind of all over the place.

 

I still really like it and I'm having a good time. I like how they've really fleshed out Falcon... he was always sort of a background guy and they've done a good job with him. Looking forward to the finale.

 

Elaine!

[SuperSpreader]

48 minutes ago, ort said:

Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure what the flag smashers are even mad about. Who exactly are they at war with? The whole world? I don't feel like they've done a good job of really explaining the stakes.

 

I feel like this show went through a lot of re-writes or something. It feels kind of all over the place.

 

I still really like it and I'm having a good time. I like how they've really fleshed out Falcon... he was always sort of a background guy and they've done a good job with him. Looking forward to the finale.

 

Elaine!

They are mad that post snap all these ppl came back and they were doing better without them. Say border laws got more lax or some rich dude had ppl move into his properties. Well he's back and y'all owe him 5yr of rent. 

 

 

Edit: can't type. 

[skillzdadirecta]

44 minutes ago, ort said:

Yeah, I'm still not 100% sure what the flag smashers are even mad about. Who exactly are they at war with? The whole world? I don't feel like they've done a good job of really explaining the stakes.

 

I feel like this show went through a lot of re-writes or something. It feels kind of all over the place.

 

I still really like it and I'm having a good time. I like how they've really fleshed out Falcon... he was always sort of a background guy and they've done a good job with him. Looking forward to the finale.

 

Elaine!

The Flag Smashers are mad about a returnt to the status quo before the blip. As seen in End Game, the world united when the blip happened. When everyone came back, so did the old way of doing things. People that were welcomed into countries through open borders were once again relegated to being refugees. That's what they're fighting against.

1 hour ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

I know, but the order/editing of the scenes made it seem the other way.  His shield training montage was just unnecessary really.  I was expecting a big moment for him taking up the shield.  But he has his talk with Isaiah and then he's still wavering.

If you take the scene literally, I guess it would seem that way. Another way of looking at it is that as he becomes more and more comfortable with the idea of being Captain America, he gets better with the shield. It's a literal visual representation of him growing into the role, accepting the mantle and the challenge of being a proud black man AND Captain America.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I’m ready for the finale, but I feel like they’re gonna have to cram a lot into one episode. The pacing has been a bit all over the place. 
 

And the Flag Smashers are pretty lame. Worst part of the show. 

[cusideabelincoln]

27 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

If you take the scene literally, I guess it would seem that way. Another way of looking at it is that as he becomes more and more comfortable with the idea of being Captain America, he gets better with the shield. It's a literal visual representation of him growing into the role, accepting the mantle and the challenge of being a proud black man AND Captain America.

 

I just don't think the montage was the way to do it because of all the scenes we've had over the last 5 episodes where he is slowly being convinced to become Captain America.  I simply expected those scenes to be the slow build, then we have some big "aha" scene where Sam flips the switch like we've seen in every other MCU movie starting with Tony watching Jensen die in Iron Man.  The montage was more of a slow burn on top of the slow burn and I didn't expect it.  I will rewatch and re-evaluate upon series conclusion though.

 

Also, while I loved the first fight, it did come across as some 6 six year olds fighting over a toy.  The way Sam, and Bucky, have kept talking about the symbolism behind the shield, I was also expecting the literal existence of the shield to stop being so important.  Shed the shield, embrace the ideals.

[skillzdadirecta]

17 hours ago, johnny said:

end credits scene was nothing special but i’m sure it’s cool for comic fans? 

 

liked this episode. think the finale is going to kick ass. 

Spoiler

Basically Walker making his own shield and becoming USAGENT... curious if they are going to keep that name. I ALWAYS thiught it was lame. He might also call himself THE CAPTAIN.

 

[skillzdadirecta]

9 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

I just don't think the montage was the way to do it because of all the scenes we've had over the last 5 episodes where he is slowly being convinced to become Captain America.  I simply expected those scenes to be the slow build, then we have some big "aha" scene where Sam flips the switch like we've seen in every other MCU movie starting with Tony watching Jensen die in Iron Man.  The montage was more of a slow burn on top of the slow burn and I didn't expect it.  I will rewatch and re-evaluate upon series conclusion though..

But we DID get that "Aha" moment in his conversation with his sister. Him seeing his nephews and realizing what it would mean for THEM to see him taking up the role and his conversations with Bucky and the respect they've earned for for each other. The shield throwing thing was in addition to these other story elements. had to get that "we need a montage" moment in there somehow 

 

13 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Also, while I loved the first fight, it did come across as some 6 six year olds fighting over a toy.  

I lol'd

[Reputator]

21 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

If you take the scene literally, I guess it would seem that way. Another way of looking at it is that as he becomes more and more comfortable with the idea of being Captain America, he gets better with the shield. It's a literal visual representation of him growing into the role, accepting the mantle and the challenge of being a proud black man AND Captain America.

 

This is how I saw it as well.

[skillzdadirecta]

6 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

This is how I saw it as well.

I saw my sisters talking about the episode on Facebook... they saw it the same way with no prompting from me 

[ort]

I mean, on the surface I get what the flag smashers are mad about... I just don't think the show has done a good job enough of world building. I don't feel like they've done the work of explaining the exact stakes... and why they are so high that they feel like blowing people up or dying. 

[Chadatog]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:06 PM, Kal-El814 said:

Also was the timing of the second montage weird to anyone else? Sam and Bucky were killing the shield frisbee game and then Sam’s just whiffing? It was a cool scene, just weird that it came after the one with him and Bucky together. 

You think a kid playing catch with their dad can catch a heater to first base in a major league game?

[skillzdadirecta]

Satisfying ending to a great series that took more risks than I would have imagined a series on Disney to take. Definitely sets up more stuff in the MCU like

 

Spoiler

Julia Louis Dreyfuss' Contessa also being Valerie Cooper it seems... I think she's building her own squad of heroes for Walker to lead along with Zemo potentially. The Thunderbolts?

and

Spoiler

What's up with Isaiah's grandson? I was hoping we'd get a sense that he inherited some of his grand dad's strength.

 

and the biggest ramification of the series

 

Spoiler

Sharon Carter breaking bad  We all suspected she was the power broker but she's gone full on traitor now. Gonna be interesting to see what they do with her in the future.

 

So we have a month of no Marvel stuff until Loki in June, huh?

[Ghost_MH]

Yeah, were getting Star Wars for May want then back to Marvel in June.

 

Spoiler

Val is very likely working on a Thunderbolts team, but I don't know if Zemo will actually join. He really doesn't like Walker and Zemo isn't really a gun for hire. He has no need for money once he's outside. Also, if he were to break out and join the Thunderbolts that would put the team on Wakanda's radar and I don't think anyone wants that. I wonder how long she's going to be popping up in the MCU recruiting folks before she has her team fully assembled.

 

Sharon Carter pulling traitor is exactly the kind of villain I was complaining the MCU needed. She's found a new life in the world during the blip, so it's not crazy that she isn't just heading back to her old life now that's she's been given the opportunity. I figured she wasn't all that good after she melted that Flag Smasher. That's not the kind of weapon "good guys" in the MCU carry.

 

[Ghost_MH]

@skillzdadirecta

Spoiler

As far as Eli Bradley goes, I'm not really sure. He seems like an obvious choice for a Young Avengers team up if/when that happens. He could also just be sitting on the sidelines and get bright back or recast in the future if Disney ever needs to replace Anthony Mackie and bring in a new Captain America in.

 

I run under the assumption that Disney has replacements in mind for a lot of their core heroes even if they don't exactly match up with their counterparts in the comics.

 

[Reputator]

Well, it definitely took risks. Some good social commentary. As for the story though, I'm having a hard time tagging along with some of the ideas.

 

Walker does the obvious thing and stops a truck full of people from falling off the edge. Now everyone's cool with him, after.... Everything.

 

Sharon being the power broker... huh. That's a bit of a jumping the shark moment for me. Apparently Steve Rogers was a poor judge of character when he dated her, but I guess he's not infallible. But she's gone full traitor after everything her aunt fought for? She stole the shield and Falcon's wings to do what she thought was right, and was punished for it. But after a full pardon as promised, she's apparently just in it for the money now. It feels flimsy to me, like an idea done for the shock value.

 

I'm sure ten people here will disagree, so I await the responses.

[NeoJoe]

Well the government that she dedicated her life to fucked her over and put her on the run for over 7 years. Compounded by the effects of the blip and being abandoned by the remaining Avengers. I would assume that changes a person. If you got fucked by an institute that badly then they were like "oops our bad, want your old job back?". How would you feel?