Television The Falcon and the Winter Soldier OT - It's the Same but Black!

[SuperSpreader]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:21 AM, Mercury33 said:

No not really

[69los]

[skillzdadirecta]

They have somehow made Zemo a sympathetic character... I guess not making him the son of a Nazi helps. I wonder if they will explore his WHOLE arc from starting the new Masters of Evil to founding The Thunderbolts as Citizen V. A lot to explore with him.

[NeoJoe]

The mad lads released the Zemo cut.

 

 

They also released an hour long version because why not. lol

 

 

[Ghost_MH]

Just came here to see if anyone posted that video. It's brilliant

 

[ort]

I get strong Ben Shapiro vibes off that video...

[EternallDarkness]

well that was a pretty solid episode 

[Zaku3]

55 minutes ago, EternallDarkness said:

well that was a pretty solid episode 

 

Watching now.

[cusideabelincoln]

Now that is America's Captain 

 

Spoiler

Interestingly the ending is a great metaphor arguing against the "good guy with a gun" power fantasy of safety.  Hoskins and Walker have a conversation about how they could have saved more lives in Afghanistan if they were super soldiers, then John becomes super and still can't save lives. 

 

And then he goes nuts with power.  America 

 

I know nothing of the John Walker comic arc.  Is the show's plot pulled from one?  And should we expect this to go even more interesting places?

 

[silentbob]

Now today’s episode is what I was waiting for. Them big, OH SHIT! moments and some cool battles once again. The first 3 episodes were ok, but this one has me excited for this series again and with only 2 episodes left. That ending though was perfect and enjoyed the darkness that you know is lying under their to be explored 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Well shit. That was a way to leave me hanging til next week. 

[Firewithin]

i guess this can still be a spoiler still but lol

 

Spoiler

 

[Reputator]

I watched the first episode when it came out but decided to wait a few weeks for some episodes to build up before continuing. Glad I did.

 

It was much more enjoyable and had much more momentum when I was able to watch the last three episodes back-to-back.

 

John Walker is a perfect corruption of the ideals of Captain America. I'm loving the concept.

[Kal-El814]

I still feel the show is doing a really bad job at making me care about The Flag Smashers at all. Endgame and Far From Home work really had to establish how important the blip was and as fans, we’re obviously invested in not having half the characters be dead. Having one character be really invested in the Flag Smashers and everyone else seemingly having misgivings about Karli killing people is a weird way to set up the threat.

 

I know the show is just as much about Sam, Bucky, and Nu Cap as it is the people they’re fighting but it feels really odd to me that they’re just kind of... there.

[skillzdadirecta]

On 4/9/2021 at 7:59 PM, cusideabelincoln said:

Now that is America's Captain 

 

  Hide contents

Interestingly the ending is a great metaphor arguing against the "good guy with a gun" power fantasy of safety.  Hoskins and Walker have a conversation about how they could have saved more lives in Afghanistan if they were super soldiers, then John becomes super and still can't save lives. 

 

And then he goes nuts with power.  America 

 

I know nothing of the John Walker comic arc.  Is the show's plot pulled from one?  And should we expect this to go even more interesting places?

 

Spoiler

In the comics he goes beserk too but for different reasons. His secret Identity is outed by former partners of he and Lemar (There were four of them originally) and becuase of that, His parents are taken hostage and he fails to save them and they are killed. This drives him crazy temporarily and he starts to really maim and kill his opponents until Steve fights him and takes the shield back. He's sane now in the comics but is still a douche. In the comics he was basically Capatain AMerica of post Viet Nam Rambo era. LEmar never dies in the comic and I;m sad to see him die on the show. Also both he AND LEmar are enhanced by the power broker before they ever became replacements for Cap. In the comic The Power Broker uses another process to give folks strength which makes them stronger than the super soldier serum... around Spiderman level.

[Ghost_MH]

6 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

I still feel the show is doing a really bad job at making me care about The Flag Smashers at all. Endgame and Far From Home work really had to establish how important the blip was and as fans, we’re obviously invested in not having half the characters be dead. Having one character be really invested in the Flag Smashers and everyone else seemingly having misgivings about Karli killing people is a weird way to set up the threat.

 

I know the show is just as much about Sam, Bucky, and Nu Cap as it is the people they’re fighting but it feels really odd to me that they’re just kind of... there.

 

Yeah, I was hoping for a little more world building here since I totally empathize with the Flag Smashers cause.  With Sam's sister being introduced, I thought we'd get a bit more insight into the lives of those that managed to pick themselves up after the snap and then lost it all again when everyone came back.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

Yeah, I was hoping for a little more world building here since I totally empathize with the Flag Smashers cause.  With Sam's sister being introduced, I thought we'd get a bit more insight into the lives of those that managed to pick themselves up after the snap and then lost it all again when everyone came back.

 

Right? I feel like a bunch of people displaced by the blip that are interested in getting back to the sense of collaboration that existed after the snap happened could be really interesting! Instead it's a bunch of super soldiers who seem to have no idea what they're doing other than blowing some things up. Even if Sam and Bucky don't have access to Avengers tech and resources, this feels like something that Spider-Man could have Edith take care of on a Sunday morning?

 

Between that and having one of the main set pieces take place in Southeast Asia while having functionally zero visible Southeast Asians on screen... I dunno. I really enjoy what we're getting but I can't help but wish that were getting something with a little more punch.

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Between that and having one of the main set pieces take place in Southeast Asia while having functionally zero visible Southeast Asians on screen

 

It seemed pretty clear it was supposed to be a Dubai kind of thing where it's only expats (or in this case foreign criminals taking advantage of the lack of an extradition treaty) hanging around in certain types of establishments. It's not like they were subtle about it being an extreme hard split between "rich playground" and "desperate poverty".

[Kal-El814]

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

It seemed pretty clear it was supposed to be a Dubai kind of thing where it's only expats (or in this case foreign criminals taking advantage of the lack of an extradition treaty) hanging around in certain types of establishments. It's not like they were subtle about it being an extreme hard split between "rich playground" and "desperate poverty".

 

I get it, it still kinda sucks.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Right? I feel like a bunch of people displaced by the blip that are interested in getting back to the sense of collaboration that existed after the snap happened could be really interesting! Instead it's a bunch of super soldiers who seem to have no idea what they're doing other than blowing some things up. Even if Sam and Bucky don't have access to Avengers tech and resources, this feels like something that Spider-Man could have Edith take care of on a Sunday morning?

 

Between that and having one of the main set pieces take place in Southeast Asia while having functionally zero visible Southeast Asians on screen... I dunno. I really enjoy what we're getting but I can't help but wish that were getting something with a little more punch.

 

I don't think having any super soldiers here really helps. Without them, the story could instead be focused on all the regular people, especially the poor across the globe, spring the cause. Once it's a cause supported by everyday regular people, it gets a lot harder to throw a nuke like Edith or Hulk into the mix. At that point it makes perfect sense to go smaller scale with someone like Sam. I feel like that's the direction they were going in, but sort of lost its way. Zemo would totally be down with the Flag Smashers if not for the supers they employ.

 

That all said, there are two a couple more episodes left and new Cap has certainly put on quite the show. There's still time to make this an issue of a ton of civilians versus a few super powered individuals representing uncaring world governments. I just don't know if there's enough time to adequately resolve that...though maybe you don't really have to.

[Reputator]

Zemo kills Captain John Walmart at the end, right? That's where we all think this is headed?

[Ghost_MH]

37 minutes ago, Reputator said:

Zemo kills Captain John Walmart at the end, right? That's where we all think this is headed?

 

I hope they don't kill off Walker. I'd prefer he end up on some vigilante team everybody hates in the future. Narratively, it'll be better to have Bradley left to live in near poverty after being used by the government and Walker getting to walk away and make a mint for some shady military contractor.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

I don't think having any super soldiers here really helps. Without them, the story could instead be focused on all the regular people, especially the poor across the globe, spring the cause. Once it's a cause supported by everyday regular people, it gets a lot harder to throw a nuke like Edith or Hulk into the mix. At that point it makes perfect sense to go smaller scale with someone like Sam. I feel like that's the direction they were going in, but sort of lost its way. Zemo would totally be down with the Flag Smashers if not for the supers they employ.

 

That all said, there are two a couple more episodes left and new Cap has certainly put on quite the show. There's still time to make this an issue of a ton of civilians versus a few super powered individuals representing uncaring world governments. I just don't know if there's enough time to adequately resolve that...though maybe you don't really have to.

 

If they don't resolve it maybe it's because they intend for it to be a continuing theme in the next phase of movies?

[Pikachu]

John Walker could become leader of the Thunderbolts.

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

If they don't resolve it maybe it's because they intend for it to be a continuing theme in the next phase of movies?

 

I hope it is and this is just an origin story for the Flag Smashers. I feel like Captain Better Represents America than Steve's latest actions could further embolden their members. What's America and the rest of the world gonna do? Kill a bunch of poor, mostly brown people?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Steve Rogers represents the United States we'd like it to be.  John Walker represents the United States as it truly is.

 

*Note: I stole this from @Joestradamus's Instagram

[skillzdadirecta]

5 hours ago, Pikachu said:

John Walker could become leader of the Thunderbolts.

Or him AND Zemo 

[Kal-El814]

I dunno that they could really “do” the Thunderbolts the way they did in the comic. Something like that would be really rad, I just don’t know how they’d go about it at all.

[Joestradamus]

16 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Steve Rogers represents the United States we'd like it to be.  John Walker represents the United States as it truly is.

 

*Note: I stole this from @Joestradamus's Instagram

I'm happy to know at least someone pays attention to what I post every now and then, but also sorry for all the stupid or annoying shit I may be posting lol

[skillzdadirecta]

7 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

I dunno that they could really “do” the Thunderbolts the way they did in the comic. Something like that would be really rad, I just don’t know how they’d go about it at all.

I've been thinking about how they could make a Thunderbolts team work in the MCU... they just have to stop killing all of the damn villains. I think Ghost from Ant Man and The Wasp is still alive. Her, John Walker, Taskmaster, Abomination (He's still around some where right?) and you have the beginnings of a team.

[NeoJoe]

 

[silentbob]

So who do we think the power broker is? They seem like the mysterious character they are teasing for the next episode but also made it seem like it might be someone familiar. They said they haven’t been brought into the MCU movie-verse, but never said anything about tv. Anyone think Wilson Fisk is involved, or at least working through Vanessa. I’m only thinking this because of the stolen art and her involvement with art when she met Wilson in DareDevil.

 

I wouldn’t mind seeing them also maybe try and get a Red Hulk series. No reason for it at the moment but be cool to see. 
 

The only other character I can think of maybe being introduced is Norman Osborne. Didn’t he make himself into a giant green goblin via an experimental vial of some sort? Plus he would be the perfect buyer of the old downtown Avengers Tower, and start up the Dark Avengers (I think that’s what he did)

[Kal-El814]

47 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I've been thinking about how they could make a Thunderbolts team work in the MCU... they just have to stop killing all of the damn villains. I think Ghost from Ant Man and The Wasp is still alive. Her, John Walker, Taskmaster, Abomination (He's still around some where right?) and you have the beginnings of a team.

 

True. Black Widow used that face masking tech in Winter Soldier, so you could get cute that way, too. Would be hard to keep the casting a secret though. I dunno that any of the villains left have enough heat to make the reveal really punchy. It being called The Thunderbolts would be a big tell, too. Maybe they’d do something really wild like make a Force Works movie but at the end reveal that it was made up of Doctor Doom, Magneto, and Kraven the Hunter or some shit

[silentbob]

2 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I've been thinking about how they could make a Thunderbolts team work in the MCU... they just have to stop killing all of the damn villains. I think Ghost from Ant Man and The Wasp is still alive. Her, John Walker, Taskmaster, Abomination (He's still around some where right?) and you have the beginnings of a team.

Abomination is coming back, along with Tim Roth reprising the role in the She-Hulk series

[skillzdadirecta]

4 minutes ago, silentbob said:

Abomination is coming back, along with Tim Roth reprising the role in the She-Hulk series

I would think Tim Blake Nelson would be coming back too... they set him up to become The Leader in that movie. Be interesting if they could establish that he;s been behind the scenes all of these years building a criminal Empire. I always thought The Leader was under utilized in the comics.