General Gaming Gris: a beautiful 2D "poetic platformer" about personal loss (Update: 1m copies sold!)

[Kal-El814]

Gamers: "Games are art!"

 

Outlets write about games as though games are art. Gamers: "OLO how pretentious!"

 

Quick, someone release another game where the protagonist has a emotionally strong yet comfortably distant paternal relationship with a child so I can feel like a REAL MAN!

 

2 hours ago, Moa said:

There are plenty of games that are better value propositions but 3-4 hours of entertainment for $20 is a fair price.

 

Boy y'all came out of the woodworks to shit on a game for having an audience other than salty old coregamers. 95% of games are made with you as their target audience. One game that doesn't pander to you isn't the end of the world.

 

QFMFT

[Slug]

All I said was that it sounded boring. o_0 

[Keyser_Soze]

3 hours ago, ALIEN-gunner said:

Alright, I've heard about enough from you - D1P Supreme High Chancellor

 

It took him this long to realize it?

[Moa]

52 minutes ago, Slug said:

All I said was that it sounded boring. o_0 

 

How fucking dare you. 

[Slug]

2 minutes ago, Moa said:

 

How fucking dare you. 

I know, right?

[TheLeon]

I bet this is a lovely little game that’ll be $5 or in a Humble Bundle in a few months. That’s when I’ll get it and add it my “eh, maybe some day” Steam list. 

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Slug said:

All I said was that it sounded boring. o_0 

FWIW what I said wasn’t directed to you at all 🙂

[stepee]

Yeah this will be a nice humble bundle release!

[darkness35]

7 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

It took him this long to realize it?

Please tell me he's been purged.

[stepee]

23 minutes ago, darkness35 said:

Please tell me he's been purged.

 

After a decade or so of being a terrible person, I would quite like the idea of this being the thing to finally end it.

[Keyser_Soze]

4 hours ago, darkness35 said:

Please tell me he's been purged.

 

Shitting on a Wade authored thread is extreme sacrilege, any user who does so shall be smited from thee patch!

[Bloodporne]

14 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

Gamers: "Games are art!"

 

Outlets write about games as though games are art. Gamers: "OLO how pretentious!"

 

Quick, someone release another game where the protagonist has a emotionally strong yet comfortably distant paternal relationship with a child so I can feel like a REAL MAN!

 

 

QFMFT

I personally never claimed "games are art!" and while I don't disagree with that, I think many interpretations of that statement are cringe-worthy. I don't think video games need to be validated by any other medium and fan base. 

 

Since you're obviously addressing me, my opinion has nothing to do with having to feel like a "real man", especially via video games. I have zero against emotional content beyond being some dickhead shooting everyone and everything and dropping cool 80's one-liners, I just find the overly cloying on-the-nose approach of many of these types of games corny. Kind of like the opposite end of the spectrum of something like CoD's ultra-macho drivel. 

 

In short, I don't begrudge games like this their basic existence, I dislike the cliched approach of without fail most of these having to suffer from lackluster gameplay and absurdly saccharine presentation like a weeping person on the cover. If that were presented in film or literature, critics would rip on those aspects as being ham-fisted I think. 

 

I'm an avid fan of poetry and sit in museums staring at paintings for two hours regularly, I'm certainly no "hardcore man's man" who thinks all feelings are totz gay, I simply think the execution and integration into the video game format has generally been really awkward. Maybe I should go easy on it because it'll probably be an evolutionary step for something more synergistic in the future.   

[Kal-El814]

@Bloodporne

 

The lament about “pretentious” reviews wasn’t directed at you specifically, but about comments that slag longer form, or introspective, or “thought piece” writing about videogames in general. I can absolutely understand that not being what someone comes to videogames or writing about videogames for. I just don’t understand calling it out, either. There’s so much digital ink, video, audio, etc., spent on discussing games these days that’s it’s inevitable that someone is going to have takes on gaming that aren’t someone’s speed specifically. I just don’t think it warrants being called out unless it’s hateful or negative.

 

The “real man” shit wasn’t directed at anyone here at all. I just think it’s sad / hilarious that men (not only men, but mostly) absolutely gush about games like Wild Hunt,  The Last of Us, and God of War for their portrayal of paternal relationships in the midst of male power fantasies and actively clamor for more of that... then many of those same people whine about the “sameness” of indie games, or dismiss shit that isn’t an indulgent power trip, etc.

[Bloodporne]

7 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

@Bloodporne

 

The lament about “pretentious” reviews wasn’t directed at you specifically, but about comments that slag longer form, or introspective, or “thought piece” writing about videogames in general. I can absolutely understand that not being what someone comes to videogames or writing about videogames for. I just don’t understand calling it out, either. There’s so much digital ink, video, audio, etc., spent on discussing games these days that’s it’s inevitable that someone is going to have takes on gaming that aren’t someone’s speed specifically. I just don’t think it warrants being called out unless it’s hateful or negative.

 

The “real man” shit wasn’t directed at anyone here at all. I just think it’s sad / hilarious that men (not only men, but mostly) absolutely gush about games like Wild Hunt,  The Last of Us, and God of War for their portrayal of paternal relationships in the midst of male power fantasies and actively clamor for more of that... then many of those same people whine about the “sameness” of indie games, or dismiss shit that isn’t an indulgent power trip, etc.

If I sounded like a dick towards you personally in the last post, that wasn't my intention for sure. I just assumed you meant my posts on the subject.

 

I didn't really call it out more so than I would say I call out anything I simply don't like and shoot the shit over on this board. I think it's only natural that a percentage of conversation on here is going to be about things people dislike. It's basically things being presented and saying "OK GO!" and I have an obvious penchant for getting rant-y. 

 

I'm actually really not into that cheesy "taking care of weaker people" thing either. 

[Kal-El814]

Nah dog, we good.

[Bloodporne]

2 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Nah dog, we good.

We both bashed RDR2 I think, there is hope yet. 

[nublood]

7 hours ago, darkness35 said:

Please tell me he's been purged.

 

6 hours ago, stepee said:

 

After a decade or so of being a terrible person, I would quite like the idea of this being the thing to finally end it.

 

14 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

It took him this long to realize it?

 

I really hope there's more to this other than somebody having a difference of opinion.

[Ghost_MH]

For what its worth, I picked the game up. I am enjoying myself, so far. This is definitely not a game for everyone. After all the fast twitch gaming I did with Owlboy and Smash Bros, it's really nice to take in some calm scenery. It's like an interactive art exhibit with some light puzzle solving and platforming. Then again, I quite enjoyed Florence, so what do I know.

[Greatoneshere]

Not sure how this game isn't any different from Flower, Journey, etc. Game looks beautiful, I'd enjoy losing myself in that game for a few hours for the experience - it's not like Nioh, Hollow Knight, etc. are going anywhere. 

 

You guys are weird - game looks beautiful. Maybe it is boring but not sure why other games of a similar nature aren't equally lambasted for being similarly "walking simulators" or "interactive art exhibits" then. 

 

It's okay for different games to aspire for different things. So long as they do those things well. Gris' main focus doesn't sound like gameplay, but a potentially emotive experience. 

 

Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice barely had gameplay and I recommend everyone play that game because it's fantastic. Kentucky Route Zero is such an experience in mood and tone and atmosphere and it hardly has what anyone here would call "gameplay" like Dark Souls or God of War but I'd still recommend Kentucky Route Zero to everyone because it is objectively good, just different from games like Dark Souls and God of War. But they're still games. If it's simply not your kind of niche or genre, that's fair, but this thread does feel like it is piling on Gris pretty hard overall. We should be celebrating what at least looks like a gorgeous work of art is getting released and getting recognition in the mainstream gaming press to some degree. 

[Moa]

KRZ ACT 5 WHEN

[Slug]

Look...art is art is art.  As with any medium people like different things.  Some people like metal, some people like R&B, some people like country.  Some people like Monet, some people like Pollack.  None of this shit is objective.  I can look at something like Gris and go, "that looks boring I don't want to play it", while still appreciating that it has it's place and will have it's fans the same way I can look at a Kuwayama and say, "...I don't get it"  while accepting that it is very compelling to some people.

[Greatoneshere]

18 minutes ago, Moa said:

KRZ ACT 5 WHEN

 

I don't know but I haven't played Act 4 so I can have more when Act 5 comes out. I'm pumped. 

 

16 minutes ago, Slug said:

Look...art is art is art.  As with any medium people like different things.  Some people like metal, some people like R&B, some people like country.  Some people like Monet, some people like Pollack.  None of this shit is objective.  I can look at something like Gris and go, "that looks boring I don't want to play it", while still appreciating that it has it's place and will have it's fans the same way I can look at a Kuwayama and say, "...I don't get it"  while accepting that it is very compelling to some people.

 

Exactly. I like all of the above myself but everyone's got different tastes. It just has to be done well for what it is going for, not per se please everyone. 

[Boyle5150]

I don’t care what anyone else thinks about it, that was beautiful 

[ALIEN-gunner]

Don't worry everyone, I'm going to commit suicide tonight. 

[SimpleG]

12 minutes ago, ALIEN-gunner said:

Don't worry everyone, I'm going to commit suicide tonight. 

[RedSoxFan9]

Looks good 

[crispy4000]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

Exactly. I like all of the above myself but everyone's got different tastes. It just has to be done well for what it is going for, not per se please everyone. 

 

Saying that different games are made for different people is kind of a cop out though.  I'll absolutely play games in genres I don't traditionally gravitate towards when they review extremely well.  In most genres, there's games that rise above preconceived notions of what you'd typically enjoy.

I'm pretty sure Journey didn't catch this much shit, for example.  There's some games that stand so far above criticism (like: Mario Galaxy 2) that it really isn't a different strokes sort of thing.  Some people just haven't tried them, more or less.

 

Tetris Effect is another interesting case.  Everyone started flipping their shit over Tetris again because of visual flair.  And spending $40 on a score attack puzzle game in 2018.

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Saying that different games are made for different people is kind of a cop out though.  I'll absolutely play games in genres I don't traditionally gravitate towards when they review extremely well.  In most genres, there's games that rise above preconceived notions of what you'd typically enjoy.

I'm pretty sure Journey didn't catch this much shit, for example.  There's some games that stand so far above criticism (like: Mario Galaxy 2) that it really isn't a different strokes sort of thing.  Some people just haven't tried them, more or less.

 

Tetris Effect is another interesting case.  Everyone started flipping their shit over Tetris again because of visual flair.  And spending $40 on a score attack puzzle game in 2018.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to point out that contradicts anything I said.  

 

I agree with you - if Gris is bad for what it is trying to be, then it should review poorly. But it shouldn't review poorly for what it clearly isn't trying to be. If people think Tetris Effect is balls out amazing for what it is, and it reviews as such, then maybe it is balls out amazing. Is that impossible?

[Pikachu]

 

[Reputator]

I don't usually raise my head for stuff like this, like others in this thread, but this definitely has the makings of a game that can potentially be an extremely poignant grief aid for those that need it.

 

I mean good lord that's some gorgeous art. And it actually looks like it's saying something, rather than just being pretty pictures.

[Xbob42]

Before I start, keep in mind this is from what I've gleaned from trailers and reviews, I haven't played this game, so consider it more of a complaint about games like this in general.

 

For my part, I think "it's not for everyone," is kind of a lazy way for us to excuse bad or mediocre gameplay. The fact that people bring up more traditional games as the only viable alternative to slowly running and doing puzzles so easy they might as well not even exist is kind of the point of the criticism. Why make something so beautiful and infuse it with such bland, trite gameplay? At what point would it be better served as a really nice screen saver or an animation or something?

 

The entire benefit of the medium is interactivity, what does interactivity truly add to a project like this? Why is it a game as opposed to something else is my real question.

 

If I see a beautiful and heartfelt animation, I don't generally end it with "That was really pretty, but why was it an animation?" Whereas I find myself asking that a lot with certain games. 

 

Note that interaction with the game doesn't mean sick ass parkour and slaughtering enemies. Journey was simple but part of the game was exploration (not the same as a super guided, super linear path in 2D, holding right is not exploration) and the feelings of connection and loss when other players would fade in and out of your game.

 

Gone Home was about you exploring this empty home and coming to your own conclusions and looking at what you wanted to look at and inspect, again, very simple, but I didn't question why it was a game.

 

I also believe that questioning whether something is better or worse for being a game is a very different argument than the silly notion of questioning whether something IS a game or not. Gris is absolutely a game, I just wonder if that was the best thing it could be.

 

I don't believe that "this game wasn't meant for you," makes good or valid shorthand to excuse a game lacking in a critical element.

[darkness35]

I'm just kind of curious why Gris is getting so much flak, yet other games like To the Moon weren't criticized at the same time.

[Xbob42]

30 minutes ago, darkness35 said:

I'm just kind of curious why Gris is getting so much flak, yet other games like To the Moon weren't criticized at the same time.

I absolutely think To The Moon would've been better served as something besides a video game. Being a game really didn't add much to it.

[Ghost_MH]

3 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I absolutely think To The Moon would've been better served as something besides a video game. Being a game really didn't add much to it.

 

To The Moon would have been better as a Gone Home kind of game, but I'm not exactly sure turning it into a book or something else would have told the story as well. Maybe a visual novel? Even then, I'm not sure.

 

That said, Gris has solid gameplay. The game controls great, the puzzles and platforming slowly get harder as the game progresses, but it never becomes a Meatboy or Celeste kind of platformer. It's an easy game for anyone that has been playing games all their lives, but I wouldn't put it in visual novel territory.

 

Gris is a lot more of a "game" than Florence and Florence is definitely a game that would not have worked as anything other than a game.

[Xbob42]

12 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

To The Moon would have been better as a Gone Home kind of game, but I'm not exactly sure turning it into a book or something else would have told the story as well. Maybe a visual novel? Even then, I'm not sure.

 

That said, Gris has solid gameplay. The game controls great, the puzzles and platforming slowly get harder as the game progresses, but it never becomes a Meatboy or Celeste kind of platformer. It's an easy game for anyone that has been playing games all their lives, but I wouldn't put it in visual novel territory.

 

Gris is a lot more of a "game" than Florence and Florence is definitely a game that would not have worked as anything other than a game.

For me, thinking on this longer, it sort of comes down to the projected capability of the people making the game. I accept To The Moon as a weird little RPG Maker game because it was clear that was what Ken Gao could do his absolute best with. I don't think his mastery over spelling, grammar, etc. would've lent itself well to a book, but he also can't really animate, to the best of my knowledge. So a simple story told using RPG Maker was his springboard to make something awesome. (Although he might've been able to get away with making a video of the events in the game and just releasing that as-is, he'd clearly be bombarded with people wanting the game itself, or to turn it into a game.)

But then I see something like Gris, with what appears to be a team of extremely talented individuals, and it's almost like they're "settling" on making a kind of OK light puzzle-platformer thing. Obviously I have no insight into their team, so that's a total guess, but it's the feeling I get when I look at it. Is this the way they could do their absolute best with what they were aiming for? Maybe, but it's hard for me to see it that way.

Gris is obviously doing extremely well, and that's great! My thoughts on a title I haven't played aren't very important in the grand scheme of things, which is why I said it's best to consider this a general statement of games like this. In my head, these kinds of titles are just a few steps away from being absolute masterpieces, if only the studios would get as creative and vibrant with the gameplay as they do with the art itself. Again, good/interesting gameplay doesn't have to take away from the art, it can add so much to it!

As an example, the swim button prompt at the end of Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons made every second of the semi-awkward gameplay worth it, and was a brilliant moment of hitting a single button. If you were invested in that tale, hitting that button (and even realizing that you needed to/could hit it) flooded you with a surge of emotions. That was gameplay as art done magnificently.