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The thread of pardons - first up, Mike Flynn


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18 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Or he's just a white nationalist himself. He never apologized for calling for the execution of the Central Park 5 even after it was crystal clear they were innocent.

 

I mean, yes, but Trump isn't an altruistic white nationalist. He's not fighting for any cause that isn't himself. Trump didn't know who any of these people are. Miller could be pushing for them. Miller totally has a little black book of racists.

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LegalEagle got mad today

 

 

 

Some of it I had never thought about it before in that way. Initially I was like "so Trump is pardoning cronies, that isn't really anything new." But then he starts talking about how what Trump is doing might be opening the door for pardoning people for political assassinations, or just using the presidency to further his own agenda and then pardoning everyone who worked for him. I don't think it's as bad as he's saying, but it is worrying.

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Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The pardon needs reform for at least needing affirmation by congress, if not abolishing it completely

I don't necessarily agree with affirmation by congress, as I think that introduces even more quid pro quo into the system.  I also don't know if I agree with abolishing it completely. A bunch of people are serving time in federal prison that shouldn't be there, or are serving sentences that are entirely too long, and presidential pardons may be the best way of helping them.

 

It's easy to say a president can't pardon his alleged friends or co-conspirators, but how do you define that? Who decides? the Senate? I think the last 20 years of the Senate has made me sour on them deciding fucking what I eat for lunch, let alone who gets pardoned for federal crimes.

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3 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I don't necessarily agree with affirmation by congress, as I think that introduces even more quid pro quo into the system.  I also don't know if I agree with abolishing it completely. A bunch of people are serving time in federal prison that shouldn't be there, or are serving sentences that are entirely too long, and presidential pardons may be the best way of helping them.

 

It's easy to say a president can't pardon his alleged friends or co-conspirators, but how do you define that? Who decides? the Senate? I think the last 20 years of the Senate has made me sour on them deciding fucking what I eat for lunch, let alone who gets pardoned for federal crimes.

 

Maybe two-thirds of each chamber to overturn a pardon instead of Congress having to explicitly agree with each and every pardon.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Maybe two-thirds of each chamber to overturn a pardon instead of Congress having to explicitly agree with each and every pardon.

Hell just a majority would be fine too (with a 120-day time limit or so on disapproving)

 

But we're getting to the point of the republic where some serious reform of all institutions is needed or the whole operation is prone to collapse into straight up empire

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

What's the point of labeling it bribery if there's no penalty attached and no actual laws prohibiting it?

 

I'm of the opinion that accepting the pardon in exchange for money is in itself bribery.  So yes, whatever crime they committed originally would be we pardoned, but they'd be facing bribery charges for accepting the pardon.

 

The President would also be susceptible to the same bribery charges. 

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3 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

I'm of the opinion that accepting the pardon in exchange for money is in itself bribery.  So yes, whatever crime they committed originally would be we pardoned, but they'd be facing bribery charges for accepting the pardon.

 

But what if it becomes briberyception with a pardon of the bribery charge? 

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