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If I hated Sekiro, is it possible that I would enjoy any other From/Souls games?


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I've never played any Souls games, save for Sekiro which I thought was bullshit.  Is it possible that I would enjoy another one of these games?

 

I understand the elevator pitch about these games, about how the precise nature of the combat forces mastery, and the rules of the world force you to be patient and intentional with play.  I didn't get that with Sekiro.  What I started to understand over time is that the game didn't only want you to master its mechanics and systems, you were forced to master each individual enemy and boss.  So essentially it became starting at square one over and over each time you progress to a different area/arena.  I think that's intentionally frustrating and bad game design, and I finally gave up after making it past the Seven Spears guy, realizing that nothing about it was fun for me in the slightest.

 

That said, I still cannot resist the promise of amazing and specific combat and the dark and foreboding adventure that these games provide.  Are these games just on their face not for me given what I described above, or is Sekiro truly an outlier?

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Having not really enjoyed the little of Sekiro that I played, I would say yes. The other games still operate in a similar way - mastering the mechanics and learning specific patterns/move sets, but the weapon and class variety gives you more options in how to approach things (Bloodborne is a bit more restrictive in this regard, but not to the extent that Sekiro is). 

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Sekiro is by FAR the hardest Souls game and its also SO different than the others. There aren't a lot of "builds" in Sekiro and you're pretty much playing a set character. Int SOuls games you can spec out different character builds to suit your playstyle. That said, the faster paced gameplay of Sekiro makes it more enjoyable for me than the other games in the series.

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Yes Sekiro is way harder and it's different from the other games. So you could definitely start with DS remake or DS 3 or DS Remastered is probably easily found cheap these days. Bloodborne is good too, but it's pretty challenging as well until you get the hang of it (not nearly as bad as Sekiro though). DS2 sucks and I wouldn't touch it unless the other games hook you. 

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I think Souls might be what you expected to like about Sekiro but didn't get. Sekiro plays like a very specific and extremely narrow Action game in that there is seemingly only ever one ultra-precise solution to each boss and it has to be drilled into your muscle memory. Souls games allow for builds, leveling yourself out of a too-tight spot for your skill set (to an extent) and a less linear world design typically. 

 

Also, which I think may have frustrated the shit out of you because I sure felt that way, you're not constantly battling against a regenerating bar like the posture bar. I've rarely felt more frustrated during boss battles than in Sekiro when pulling off some great set of attacks, getting hit once, having to back off for a sec to heal and see that stupid fucking posture bar just dwindle back down. In Souls game you hit opponents and their health bar goes down, end of story, no endless blocking-fests and so on.

 

I'll add that even as a borderline From fanboy and as someone who enjoys the majority of Sekiro at this point, I think it's often a thoroughly off-putting game in how absurdly punishing it is especially in the beginning. I hope From doesn't continue this trajectory of mountain-sized brickwalls of initial difficulty. 

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I'm a huge Souls game fan and I did not like Sekiro that much.  It felt less like Souls combat and more like a series of quick-time events where you had to recognize the flashing symbol and respond with a correct button press.  So I can't say that you'll like the other Souls games, but I don't think your dislike for Sekiro is necessarily a determining factor in that.

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I would say that Sekiro is more skill based, whereas the Souls games are knowledge based. Yes, both require skill, but in Souls there is almost always a way to cheese a fight if you figure out the exact right equipment combo, plus you can level to compensate. 

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1 hour ago, EternallDarkness said:

Damn Sekiro is harder than the sounds game? I keep meaning to pick it up, but if its harder than souls I will have to pass. These days I don't have the patience for games that hard.

I'm not even sure purely 'hard' is it but it is ridiculously unforgiving in that it demands perfection in one way only from every specific fight. At least that's my experience with it. Even when I enjoy my time with it going through the no-doubt gorgeous levels, I usually find the combat exhausting rather than exhilarating even when I'm doing well. 

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4 hours ago, Bloodporne said:

I'm not even sure purely 'hard' is it but it is ridiculously unforgiving in that it demands perfection in one way only from every specific fight. At least that's my experience with it. Even when I enjoy my time with it going through the no-doubt gorgeous levels, I usually find the combat exhausting rather than exhilarating even when I'm doing well. 

I didn't... when you nail a fight in Sekiro it's ABSOLUTELY exhilarating.

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I found Sekiro to actually be pretty easy, since it forces you into a single playstyle. If you're even mildly decent at building on a simple skillset, you can plow through that game very easily provided you're generally good at games. If you're not, though... I imagine it's a fucking terrible experience. That same shoehorning of everyone into the same playstyle is exactly why I disliked the game, though. Each time From makes a game, they get farther and farther from what drew me in to begin with, it feels like.


That said, Sekiro still uses the basics from From's lineup. You will still have to fight the same bosses over and over as you learn them, but you'll have a wider array of ways to do so, including overleveling, using overpowered builds, or summoning other players/friends/NPCs to help you deal with battles.


Sekiro gave none of these difficulty modifiers and instead forced every single player down the same route with the same build to fight every boss as though all players have an equal level of skill, when in reality many people have dramatically varying levels of skill, time, patience, dedication, etc. to devote to a single game. The Souls games are far more accommodating to those who lack one or more of these traits, and even if you have all of those traits, I still find them far more fun because I think variety is far more exciting in a long RPG than forcing me to play a single way.

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9 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

I found Sekiro to actually be pretty easy, since it forces you into a single playstyle. If you're even mildly decent at building on a simple skillset, you can plow through that game very easily provided you're generally good at games. If you're not, though... I imagine it's a fucking terrible experience. 

 

The thing I hated most about Sekiro was that I could dodge/block/parry/whatever attacks just fine, but it didn't matter because I didn't use the "right" dodge/block/parry/whatever so I could never counter-attack effectively.  I suck at quick time events.  I really do.  My brain-to-hand speed I guess just isn't fast enough to recognize and react which symbol flashes over an enemy's head before they attack so I end up screwing those up most of the time by doing the "wrong" thing to avoid a particular attack.  I avoid or block the attack successfully, just not the way the game wants me to.   The end result was a series of looooong boring fights that ended with me eventually just giving in.

 

That's the big difference between Sekiro and traditional Souls games to me.  In a given Souls encounter you can approach things multiple ways, you can dodge or block or parry or run or whatever to avoid an attack while you look for openings to get damage in and counter.  Everything is valid and it's up to you to discover what works for you.  With Sekiro the devs were like, "we not only want you to play this one way we also want you do this one very specific thing in response to this specific action that you'll only have a split second to realize is happening else punish".

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Sekiro to me was basically an old school arcade game dressed up like a modern day title. Simple to learn, hard to master and you absolutely will die... a lot. Once you learn the game's mechanics you start looking forward to fights. I remember the first time I played it, I quit when I got to Genjuro. That dude in retrospect is so easy that I laughed at myself for letting him punk me the first time. 

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game again at somepoint.

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15 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Sekiro to me was basically an old school arcade game dressed up like a modern day title. Simple to learn, hard to master and you absolutely will die... a lot. Once you learn the game's mechanics you start looking forward to fights. I remember the first time I played it, I quit when I got to Genjuro. That dude in retrospect is so easy that I laughed at myself for letting him punk me the first time. 

I'm actually looking forward to playing the game again at somepoint.

I've kinda thought of Sekiro as a rhythm game, or like rock band or guitar hero on extreme. Cuz like you don't have other builds to beat a song. And if you miss too many notes in a row you fail the song. Of course, many other games be be described like that, mess up too many times and you fail, but Sekiro really gives me that same feeling of failing a song on guitar hero. That is due to the perfectness in which you have to parry which feel similar to hitting notes with the strum bar. 

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@Baconyou're definitely right... when your rhythm is on in Sekiro everything clicks... when it's off :doh:

I could tell within the first couple of seconds of a tough boss battle if I was gonna have a chance or not based on how the flow of the fight felt. If it was off, I would just let the boss kill me and start over. When things clicked though, the game feels amazing. Watching some of those no damage runs and perfect parry runs online is a thing of beauty. 

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I will say though that I do hope From will do a Sekiro 2. I think the atmosphere, world and even combat are legit fantastic and it's gorgeous to look at to boot. I just really think there is a lot that could be tweaked and improved for an incredible sequel. 

 

I'm also a total fucking sucker for eerie medieval Japan settings. It reminded me of the very first Tenchu's atmosphere but From'd/Souls'd out. I still break that game out once in a while to this day. 

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11 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I didn't... when you nail a fight in Sekiro it's ABSOLUTELY exhilarating.

Actually, I just noticed that whenever I look back on Sekiro for some reason I remember all the negatives because the game did cause me insane amounts of frustration on my first playthrough. My second and third (well, never beating the final boss :/did indeed have moments like that. I did have moments of awe and wonder but somehow it took me an entire playthrough to even be decent at it, damn, no wonder I'm Mr. :salt:

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3 minutes ago, Slug said:

This thread is making me want to give it another go after I finish Ghost. Damnit, I still have Nioh to start. :/

If you get stuck on a boss or elite enemy then maybe consider watching a youtube video of that encounter. I usually don't recommend using guides for video games, but if you wouldn't beat a game otherwise then use a guide. 

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7 minutes ago, Slug said:

This thread is making me want to give it another go after I finish Ghost. Damnit, I still have Nioh to start. :/

 

Same. I didn't get super far but I think I'll have to start from the beginning since I'd probably be clueless about the mechanics.

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4 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Same. I didn't get super far but I think I'll have to start from the beginning since I'd probably be clueless about the mechanics.

 

Yeah I'd have to start fresh even though I wasn't very far when I phoned it in.  Some on fire village with a pond in the back.  

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What helped me greatly with the combat was focusing on the swords' sound rather than visual feedback actually which sounds weird. There's a distinct 'block/parry break' sound when you stagger your opponent in a parrying showdown and there's a reason the sword fx mix is really high. Basically I parry until I hear that specific clang and immediately start attacking. 

 

Also, you don't HAVE to do Lady Butterfly early on despite it being kind of presented that way. Typical Souls trickery. 

 

Edit: I realize that's probably some pretty basic shit to say about the game but...yeah, to me it was somehow a big change in the combat's flow to really focus on listening instead.

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13 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Lady Butterfly

Is actually really easy, even early, if you cheese. You can do this spinning dodge attack over and over again and it makes the fight so easy you could possibly do it with your eyes closed. This video that I'll put in spoilers in basically how I did. I think I died 2-3 times before I found this strat on my own, and it seems like a lot of others found this out on their own as well 

Spoiler

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Slug said:

 

Yeah I'd have to start fresh even though I wasn't very far when I phoned it in.  Some on fire village with a pond in the back.  

 

Actually I remember they just recently had a big update for the game so if you were going to get back into it, now is the time!

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10 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Is actually really easy, even early, if you cheese. You can do this spinning dodge attack over and over again and it makes the fight so easy you could possibly do it with your eyes closed. This video that I'll put in spoilers in basically how I did. I think I died 2-3 times before I found this strat on my own, and it seems like a lot of others found this out on their own as well 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Step-Dodge move in general, if that's what you were doing, is super useful but new to Sekiro from Souls/Bloodborne so I overlooked it for quite a bit when first trying to get into the game. Step-Dodge is apparently what the Chained Ogre is supposed to be teaching you but yeah, I kept trying to jump over him which looks like it should work but the game does not want that.

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1 hour ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Same. I didn't get super far but I think I'll have to start from the beginning since I'd probably be clueless about the mechanics.

I started over from the begining on second playthrough to relearn the mechanics. The game DOES do a decent job of teaching you how to play... you just have to actually learn it and play the game for what it is and not as if its some other game.

 

1 hour ago, Bloodporne said:

The Step-Dodge move in general, if that's what you were doing, is super useful but new to Sekiro from Souls/Bloodborne so I overlooked it for quite a bit when first trying to get into the game. Step-Dodge is apparently what the Chained Ogre is supposed to be teaching you but yeah, I kept trying to jump over him which looks like it should work but the game does not want that.

 

Dodging is almost as important as parrying in this game. They key also is to focus on posture damage and not actual damage. Doing that will keep you from getting too greedy and attacking when you're not supposed to. Lady Butterfly isn't that tough and neither is Genichiuro as both of them have very low posture bars and can be deathblowed pretty quickly if you parry them properly. Sekiro can be a frustrating game... but also a very satisfying one once you "get good" at it as most skill based games are.

 

 

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I just found it all very unsatisfying. Even when I beat the final boss it was more like "Well, that's over." followed by me immediately uninstalling and looking up any other endings/secrets on YouTube. Didn't help that I generally find Japan, especially medieval Japan, to be a fairly boring setting. 

 

Compared to the fantastical setting of the Souls games, the wider array of player choice and comparatively enormous variety of ways to engage in combat, including online play, Sekiro felt like a super limited gimmick rather than a brand new IP from the creators of Souls and Bloodborne. The few things I was sure I'd love like the grappling hook/prosthetic were unbelievably limited or underutilized. It really felt like they didn't know what they wanted to do, and were happy to settle for "just parry a lot, mostly" as the core design of an entire game. 

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I’ve beat and enjoyed every Souls, and “Soulslike” game ever made and I couldn’t stand Sekiro. I really tried though. But after about 15-20 hrs I realized it just isn’t fun. Like someone else said, the constant spike in difficulty takes all the fun out of it. To be fair, it is polished and well developed with smart game design. But for me it’s just not worth the trouble of the constant frustration. My hat’s off to anyone who finished this game.

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