Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[CitizenVectron]

Just a note - a child subsidy is a fantastic way to bring many families out of poverty. It's worked very well in Canada over the last 10 years.

[SuperSpreader]

Some of those items will turn around some of the ppl who lean slight GOP, oh shit I can pay my bills and take care of my kids!? Wait I can get healthcare?? Childcare, what! Those checks should be monthly and go to everyone. Tax the rich! (Bud also cut them a $2k check)

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

17 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

Some of those items will turn around some of the ppl who lean slight GOP, oh shit I can pay my bills and take care of my kids!? Wait I can get healthcare?? Childcare, what! Those checks should be monthly and go to everyone. Tax the rich! (Bud also cut them a $2k check)

the problem with many that “lean” GOP is they might love some of that stuff if they themselves need it. But if they don’t, they don’t want their taxes going to anyone else that can’t take care of themselves. Choices, consequences, responsibility, boot straps, etc. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

if they get this done, that's incredibly impressive. Let's fucking do it!

 

 

Housing vouchers ain't gonna do shit without fixing zoning.

[Uaarkson]

9 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Housing vouchers ain't gonna do shit without fixing zoning.

this. throwing money at our broken development pattern is actually worse than not spending any money at all.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

8 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Housing vouchers ain't gonna do shit without fixing zoning.

I mean make the vouchers/funding contingent on zoning reform

[Jason]

4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

I mean make the vouchers/funding contingent on zoning reform

 

Spoiler alert: they won't.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

16 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Spoiler alert: they won't.

[Chris-]

Uh, housing vouchers absolutely will ‘do shit’ because there is more than enough supply; zoning and new development impact market pricing and affordability, but housing vouchers sidestep those issues by just getting people into existing housing (of which there is enough). 

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Uh, housing vouchers absolutely will ‘do shit’ because there is more than enough supply

 

Not in Los Angeles.

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Not in Los Angeles.

 

Yeah, but that's not the case in the vast majority of the country. That's especially true for all those people that will be getting evicted as soon as the eviction moratorium is lifted since they don't just have thousands of dollars sitting in their bank to help them catch up with months of back rent.

[Chris-]

12 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Not in Los Angeles.

I wouldn’t pretend to be an expert in LA housing stock, but there is a 0% chance a fully-funded Section 8 would have little to no impact on LA homelessness. 

[Uaarkson]

21 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Uh, housing vouchers absolutely will ‘do shit’ because there is more than enough supply; zoning and new development impact market pricing and affordability, but housing vouchers sidestep those issues by just getting people into existing housing (of which there is enough). 

There is not enough housing supply in 75% of the country. Here in Michigan, we technically have plenty of supply, but it’s either too expensive for the average person or in dangerous neighborhoods. There’s nothing in between

[Jason]

12 minutes ago, Chris- said:

I wouldn’t pretend to be an expert in LA housing stock, but there is a 0% chance a fully-funded Section 8 would have little to no impact on LA homelessness. 

 

It might make a dent but it's literally illegal to build anything other than a single family house in most of Los Angeles. The black line is showing how many people the city has been zoned for over time, in terms of if you built to the maximum allowed across the entire land area--so for a number of reasons the actual built housing is below the red line now.

 

 

 

The ability to build a meaningful number of apartments in the multi-family areas is severely limited by parking minimums.

 

 

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

There is not enough housing supply in 75% of the country. Here in Michigan, we technically have plenty of supply, but it’s either too expensive for the average person or in dangerous neighborhoods. There’s nothing in between

 

In California the supply is in places where people will have 2 hour each way car commutes to their jobs and/or in wildfire zones.

[Bloodporne]

22 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

As a son of Pakistani immigrants who has a decent number of immigrant friends my age as a result, it's so very true. They don't even understand the issue. Their resentment over their own difficult process to get a greencard or citizenship the "slow, right way" makes them hate anyone who does it faster, or through loophole means. I have one dumb Pakistani immigrant friend who actually liked Trump closing the "loophole" on marrying and giving birth in the country or some such. He truly believed immigrants don't show up for their court dates and that coyotes were just playing red light, green light at the border.

 

I explained to him, and showed him DOJ data, that most immigrants do in fact show up to their court hearings, and that immigrants are showing up at legal political asylum checkpoints requesting political asylum, not running like a lunatic over the border. And that they are requesting political asylum often because their lives where they are coming from are threatened by gang or governmental violence or death. This friend of a friend just looked annoyed and frustrated, but he shut up.

 

I do not get this immigrant resentment thing. My own wife even has it a little bit until I explained things to her thoroughly. You'd think they'd be more empathetic? I don't get irritated when others are able to do something easier or quicker than I did if I know they are suffering/need it more. 

I've had a rant or two about my mother on here before but she just received her citizenship after being here as a permanent resident for 20 years and immediately voted for Trump. A huge part of her resentment is that idiotic "anyone who does it faster" thing you described. She literally calls for all kinds of immigration reform regularly while both her own fucking children aren't citizens. When confronted, the answer is exactly the whole Good Immigrant nonsense where everyone but the immigrants in your family or that you happen to know as actual people is some lazy criminal trying to get one over on the system. She even watched me, for years, go to day-labor construction jobs and hang out with the exact demographic she wants essentially banned. 

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

I've had a rant or two about my mother on here before but she just received her citizenship after being here as a permanent resident for 20 years and immediately voted for Trump. A huge part of her resentment is that idiotic "anyone who does it faster" thing you described. She literally calls for all kinds of immigration reform regularly while both her own fucking children aren't citizens. When confronted, the answer is exactly the whole Good Immigrant nonsense where everyone but the immigrants in your family or that you happen to know as actual people is some lazy criminal trying to get one over on the system. She even watched me, for years, go to day-labor construction jobs and hang out with the exact demographic she wants essentially banned. 

 

Man, I feel for you. My parents are the same way. Doctors from Pakistan who frown on most minorities and, furthermore, immigrants. I've never seen such cognitive dissonance, but I believed it once I saw it enough times. "Good immigrant". It's sad, and makes them self-hating minorities. Hilariously, their "facts" on the issue are incorrect, and they don't even know the kinds of immigrants they are even worried about/shitting on, making them horrible people, basically. 

[Chris-]

11 minutes ago, Uaarkson said:

 
There is not enough housing supply in 75% of the country. Here in Michigan, we technically have plenty of supply, but it’s either too expensive for the average person or in dangerous neighborhoods. There’s nothing in between

Unless the existing stock is so expensive that the difference between the voucher ceiling and total rent is untenable, that shouldn’t be an issue, and I have never read anything indicating that is a widespread issue with Section 8. The biggest issue with the program is that it is severely underfunded. 

 

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

It might make a dent but it's literally illegal to build anything other than a single family house in most of Los Angeles.

 

 

 

The ability to build a meaningful number of apartments in the multi-family areas is severely limited by parking minimums.

 

 

Voucher recipients can select single family homes. Again I won’t pretend to be an expert in LA housing, but I think you are conflating two separate (but related) issues. 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Bloodporne said:

I've had a rant or two about my mother on here before but she just received her citizenship after being here as a permanent resident for 20 years and immediately voted for Trump. A huge part of her resentment is that idiotic "anyone who does it faster" thing you described. She literally calls for all kinds of immigration reform regularly while both her own fucking children aren't citizens. When confronted, the answer is exactly the whole Good Immigrant nonsense where everyone but the immigrants in your family or that you happen to know as actual people is some lazy criminal trying to get one over on the system. She even watched me, for years, go to day-labor construction jobs and hang out with the exact demographic she wants essentially banned. 

 

I've met other people who went through the naturalization process who are also fucking rabid about hating illegal immigrants. It's like hazing, they went through it so they want everyone else to have to go through it too so they don't feel like their hazing was for nothing. The problem is they're really the only vocal constituency on this because most Americans don't realize how screwed up our immigration system is. One of my favorites is how we make it really easy to do college here and then make it practically impossible for them to stay here.

 

[Chris-]

I mean, the graph you just posted shows LA has the capacity. Zoning is a problem, but it’s not a problem that necessarily needs to be solved with a fully funded voucher program. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

9 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Uh, housing vouchers absolutely will ‘do shit’ because there is more than enough supply; zoning and new development impact market pricing and affordability, but housing vouchers sidestep those issues by just getting people into existing housing (of which there is enough). 

 

 

Vacant housing for sale and vacant housing for rent, respectively.

 

These are nationwide trends, to say nothing of supply issues on a metro by metro basis. The fundamental issue with housing today is the lack of supply. This leads to higher prices locally and nationally. Then due to zoning, the areas with the highest "demand" (thus, prices) you can't build new housing, pushing people in to where locally cheaper housing is located (where you can't really build that much more new housing of, again) causing displacement and gentrification. Repeat down the economic ladder until you put people on the street.

 

Anything less than more supply is putting a bandaid on a bullet wound. Will vouchers help? Maybe! But all it does it temporarily dampen the impact that low supply causes. Inevitably you must build more housing and that can only be done in a sustainable and affordable way by relaxing zoning laws in dense areas with good job and transit access.

 

Vouchers for now, zoning for the long term to actually fix the issue.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, Chris- said:

I mean, the graph you just posted shows LA has the capacity.

 

Again, the black line is the zoning, not what's actually built. A ton of lots do not get built to their maximum allowable zoning, for reasons like the parking minimum issue I followed up with.

[Bloodporne]

13 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Man, I feel for you. My parents are the same way. Doctors from Pakistan who frown on most minorities and, furthermore, immigrants. I've never seen such cognitive dissonance, but I believed it once I saw it enough times. "Good immigrant". It's sad, and makes them self-hating minorities. Hilariously, their "facts" on the issue are incorrect, and they don't even know the kinds of immigrants they are even worried about/shitting on, making them horrible people, basically. 

Dude, my mother bashes people who don't speak English loudly in public all the time and will randomly break into German and/or Polish five minutes later. That's how ridiculously far one can take cognitive dissonance apparently!

 

BONUS POINTS: She has a VERY heavy accent.

 

13 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

I've met other people who went through the naturalization process who are also fucking rabid about hating illegal immigrants. It's like hazing, they went through it so they want everyone else to have to go through it too so they don't feel like their hazing was for nothing. The problem is they're really the only vocal constituency on this because most Americans don't realize how screwed up our immigration system is. One of my favorites is how we make it really easy to do college here and then make it practically impossible for them to stay here.

The kicker is, my sister even had to fight a deportation case (if you can call it that) at one point. We're not even the Good Immigrants, all of us have done technically not-kosher shit to stay here so it's even more baffling. Being an 'illegal immigrant' can be basically anything in terms of an everyday life, I've seen it all considering most of my friends are immigrants from all over the place, yet I firmly believe people like her and what we're describing envision an illegal immigrant as this horrible creature waiting to steal their money, rob and murder them. 

 

And you're right on the money, I've had the discussion trying to explain just how fucking difficult it is for an average person to actually go through the legal immigration process step-by-step and be this shining example of the Good Immigrant. It's nearly impossible, I know because I've done it. Not only is everything stacked against you but then the shit that is actually in place doesn't even vaguely function the way it should because they purposely leave the agency in disarray. I'd had to go to court several times because my paperwork was supposedly 'lost' or some other such bullshit and therefore made me miss important deadlines. And trust me, I am way on top of paperwork and organization, it wasn't for that, and I can't even imagine what the process must be like for others whose English isn't nearly as advanced as mine. 

 

Ok I could rant about this shit forever so I'll stop there.

[Jason]

Also "they can pick SFH" is not a great or sustainable solution because they would probably wind up in the Valley (that big swath of yellow in the northwest part of the zoning map). This is the result on a typical weekday night, because the Valley is not where the bulk of jobs in Los Angeles are:

 

[Jason]

Oh and it starts looking like that at about 2:30 PM because of how fucked our distribution of housing vs jobs is.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Dude, my mother bashes people who don't speak English loudly in public all the time and will randomly break into German and/or Polish five minutes later. That's how ridiculously far one can take cognitive dissonance apparently!

 

The kicker is, my sister even had to fight a deportation case (if you can call it that) at one point. We're not even the Good Immigrants, all of us have done technically not-kosher shit to stay here so it's even more baffling. Being an 'illegal immigrant' can be basically anything in terms of an everyday life, I've seen it all considering most of my friends are immigrants from all over the place, yet I firmly believe people like her and what we're describing envision an illegal immigrant as this horrible creature waiting to steal their money, rob and murder them. 

 

I'm with you 100%. It's why I hate using the term "illegal immigrants" and use the term "undocumented immigrants" or "asylum seekers" instead. What makes this all the more hilarious? 80% of undocumented immigrants are from flights from immigrants who then overstay their visas in the US, NOT immigrants coming over the border. But, again, the average person is an absolute moron and thinks, literally, all "illegal immigrants" are people running over the border like the kids' game red light, green light. My God, people are stupid.

 

That's how dumb these "good immigrants" are.

 

 

[Chris-]

Hey man I’m not saying we don’t need to fix zoning laws, I’m just saying that fully funding the existing housing program would have an incredible impact on homelessness or poverty. This is an instance where you absolutely cannot miss the forest for the trees. 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Chris- said:

Hey man I’m not saying we don’t need to fix zoning laws, I’m just saying that fully funding the existing housing program would have an incredible impact on homelessness or poverty. This is an instance where you absolutely cannot miss the forest for the trees. 

 

Obviously not every apartment for rent makes it onto apartments.com, but it'd be surprising if it's a factor of 10 difference. This is really not a ton of availability for a county of 10 million people.

 

[Bloodporne]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm with you 100%. It's why I hate using the term "illegal immigrants" and use the term "undocumented immigrants" or "asylum seekers" instead. What makes this all the more hilarious? 80% of undocumented immigrants are from flights from immigrants who then overstay their visas in the US, NOT immigrants coming over the border. 

 

That's how dumb these "good immigrants" are.

 

 

Like seemingly most issues in the States, the issue is systemic with the whole system being inefficient and broken at its core. It's the country not being able to handle the fact people want to go there after bashing it into the entire world's heads for decades upon decades that you should come here because it's the greatest thing to ever happen to civilization. Then you go, you leave your life and family behind and it's a total shitshow and you're treated like dirt. Makes total sense, America. 

 

ANYWAY, glad I got that rage off my chest that's been building for a week. And good luck with your Good Immigrants too haha...maybe we can send them both to some sort of AA meeting where they can hate each other. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

The folks over at the Donald still think he's getting four more years, yelling to trust the plan 😆 I hope this makes them rage.

[Jason]

 

[TwinIon]

24 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

The folks over at the Donald still think he's getting four more years, yelling to trust the plan 😆 I hope this makes them rage.

I've already seen posts saying they might have to wait for "a little while" after inauguration before the mass arrests and Trump's second term to start. Never underestimate their power of self delusion.

[Littleronin]

The nicest part of the last few days and having Trump not be on social media is that they actually feel like days not each day feeling like month bouillon waiting to be put in a cup of hot water. 

[SaysWho?]

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

 

Some are saying $2000. Biden did:

 

 

And, for example, this:

 

Biden expected to include $2,000 checks, new child benefit in major new stimulus proposal

WWW.INQUIRER.COM

---

Biden transition officials have not disclosed the overall price tag of the package, but it is expected to be more than $1 trillion.

 

3rd stimulus checks: Biden expected to unveil COVID-19 relief plan with $2,000 payments

KTLA.COM

---

Under a recent Democratic plan that may provide some insight, people making up to $115,000 annually would get a payment. Couples making up to $200,000 would see cash.

 

 

But I'm also seeing some say $1400:

 

Stimulus check update: Biden to unveil plan for $1,400 payments; unemployment extension

WWW.WSBTV.COM

---

President-elect Joe Biden will unveil on Thursday a COVID-19 relief package he hopes to get through Congress that will include a stimulus check, an extension of federal unemployment insurance benefits and aid to small businesses.

 

So I dunno who's correct.