Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[Spork3245]

31 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

I think Biden is still officially elected even if he dies.  But since he would be 6 feed under on inauguration day, the line of succession kicks in at the stroke of noon, and the Harris would take the Presidential oath. 

Yes, she’s sworn in at 12:01pm in this unlikely scenario.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

So I'm visiting my family this weekend for a hunting trip and gods, this is another world here. Trump flags everywhere. FUCKING EVERYWHERE. I haven't see a single Biden sign.

 

My dad has two in his shop. Hanging next to the Confederate flag. I asked him if that was his hall of losers up in the rafters. 

[Chairslinger]

31 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

So I'm visiting my family this weekend for a hunting trip and gods, this is another world here. Trump flags everywhere. FUCKING EVERYWHERE. I haven't see a single Biden sign.

 

My dad has two in his shop. Hanging next to the Confederate flag. I asked him if that was his hall of losers up in the rafters. 

 

 

 

 

 

[LazyPiranha]

I stand by my assertion that every single confederate monument should be allowed to stay, but they must all have a gigantic participation ribbon permanently adhered to them.

[Comet]

42 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

So I'm visiting my family this weekend for a hunting trip and gods, this is another world here. Trump flags everywhere. FUCKING EVERYWHERE. I haven't see a single Biden sign.

 

My dad has two in his shop. Hanging next to the Confederate flag. I asked him if that was his hall of losers up in the rafters. 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I said I was gonna avoid the topic unless they started it, but when I walked out there and saw that "All aboard the Trump train 2020" hanging next to the Stars and Bars, I just couldn't stop myself. 

 

I've been good since. 

[marioandsonic]

It feels good to laugh at the people that still haven't taken down their Trump signs.

[thewhyteboar]

 

[Fizzzzle]

10 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

I stand by my assertion that every single confederate monument should be allowed to stay, but they must all have a gigantic participation ribbon permanently adhered to them.

I'm generally in favor of moving monuments to museums, but that is not always possible. Short of that, I think there should be a plaque next to every confederate monument explaining the evils of slavery and what these men fought for (hint: slavery). There's a difference between remembering history and celebrating it.

[LazyPiranha]

1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said:

I'm generally in favor of moving monuments to museums, but that is not always possible. Short of that, I think there should be a plaque next to every confederate monument explaining the evils of slavery and what these men fought for (hint: slavery). There's a difference between remembering history and celebrating it.

 

The majority of Confederate monuments aren't even museum worthy.  They aren't historically signifficant of an any import, they were mass produced on the cheap long after the war to make fragile whites feel better.  Their only value is a tool to remind Confederate dick riders how pathetic their "heritage" truly is.

[thewhyteboar]

They aren't Civil War monuments. They are Jim Crow monuments, designed to put African Americans in their place and remind them that they are inferior to Southern whites.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1-20

 

 

[Ricofoley]

They're tanking to get the #1 pick in the next lawyer draft

 

[Fizzzzle]

5 hours ago, LazyPiranha said:

 

The majority of Confederate monuments aren't even museum worthy.  They aren't historically signifficant of an any import, they were mass produced on the cheap long after the war to make fragile whites feel better.  Their only value is a tool to remind Confederate dick riders how pathetic their "heritage" truly is.

Correct. Most confederate monuments in the US were sponsored by the Daughters of the United Confederacy. Or maybe it's United daughters of the confederacy, I can't remember. They had these monuments erected some 40-60 years after the civil war, and also were the main perpetrators of the lost cause myth, which became so prevalent that even I was taught it in school 20 years ago. So have something that says "here's this monument, here's why it sucks."

 

Point being, erasing history doesn't help anyone. Point out why the past sucked, and your grandpa was probably a racist, actually does some good. There's a reason Auschwitz still stands.

[SimpleG]

37 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

There's a reason Auschwitz still stands.

And statues of Hitler and Goebbels do not.

 

One is a monument to countless suffering and one is a monument to those who caused countless suffering. Confederate monuments are absolutely the latter.

[Anathema-]

Maybe instead of having shitty statues that we have to have smaller statues explaining why they're shitty we could just have nice statues. 

[Joe]

40 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Correct. Most confederate monuments in the US were sponsored by the Daughters of the United Confederacy. Or maybe it's United daughters of the confederacy, I can't remember. They had these monuments erected some 40-60 years after the civil war, and also were the main perpetrators of the lost cause myth, which became so prevalent that even I was taught it in school 20 years ago. So have something that says "here's this monument, here's why it sucks."

 

Point being, erasing history doesn't help anyone. Point out why the past sucked, and your grandpa was probably a racist, actually does some good. There's a reason Auschwitz still stands.

 

Auschwitz stands as a museum. It's not like people pass it on their way to work.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, Joe said:

 

Auschwitz stands as a museum. It's not like people pass it on their way to work.

There aren't a bunch of schools in Germany named after SS oficers either.

[SimpleG]

Professor Kirt von Daacke, co-chair of the University of Virginia President's Commission on Slavery and the University, explains that the Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville was erected in 1924 “as part of the apex of white supremacist rule in Virginia and the US. It was explicitly part of a project designed to claim public space for whites only and remind African Americans that they were the dominated whose lives were worthless.”

Both the statue of Robert E. Lee and a nearby statue of Stonewall Jackson, he continues, were installed just after the KKK marched directly into the heart of the African-American community.

“These statues,” he says, were “the final act in a 30-plus-year project in Virginia ... eliminating African Americans from citizenship and the public sphere and erasing the history of the Civil War.” He sees both of them as part of a Lost Cause mythology that itself was a whitewashing of history.

“To call these statues historical is to be willfully ignorant of history,” he adds. “The statues are monuments to white supremacy, not to Lee, not to Jackson.”

[Fizzzzle]

48 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

And statues of Hitler and Goebbels do not.

 

One is a monument to countless suffering and one is a monument to those who caused countless suffering. Confederate monuments are absolutely the latter.

The difference is that the German education system ensures that everyone knows the evils of the nazis. The US education system does not do that with slavers. People are legitimately taught that the south was fighting for freedom, which is immensely ironic.

 

Basically, my point is that it's easier to turn confederate monuments into holocaust memorials. It would do greater good than just demolishing them.

[Spork3245]

3 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

The difference is that the German education system ensures that everyone knows the evils of the nazis. The US education system does not do that with slavers. People are legitimately taught that the south was fighting for freedom, which is immensely ironic.

 

Basically, my point is that it's easier to turn confederate monuments into holocaust memorials. It would do greater good than just demolishing them.

You don’t have statues of people on public land unless it’s to glorify them. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

What I find exceptionally amusing about these mass-produced statues is that they could be ordered from the catalog in either Union or Confederate uniforms.  

 

They were the same goddamned statue with essentially a "palette swap".

[Fizzzzle]

My only point is that we should educate rather than eradicate. If every statue of Robert E Lee was accompanied by like "here's why the south was bad and you should feel bad for sympathising with them." Then maybe kids could get educated. As it is, people get sucked into the Lost Cause myth, and I think eradicating monuments just adds fuel to the racist fire.

[Fizzzzle]

"you're eradicating our history! Glory to the south!"

 

Nope, I'm not gonna tear your statues down, I'm gonna put testimonies and pictures of slaves all over it, so you can see.

[CayceG]

2 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

My only point is that we should educate rather than eradicate. If every statue of Robert E Lee was accompanied by like "here's why the south was bad and you should feel bad for sympathising with them." Then maybe kids could get educated. As it is, people get sucked into the Lost Cause myth, and I think eradicating monuments just adds fuel to the racist fire.

 

Statues aren't for education. They're for edification. Having a statue with a plaque that says "actually, dude sucked" doesn't accomplish anything beyond 'both sides' nonsense. 

 

Do what one of the ex-USSR countries did. Take all the statues of Confederate Generals and put them in one park in the south dedicated to the myth that the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK tried to cultivate and to the white supremacy that was allowed to propagate through the installation of all these statues. Make the park a memorial to the oppression caused by the people that wanted the statues installed and the people that kept them up through history. 

 

That's how you educate using these statues. 

[SimpleG]

2 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

My only point is that we should educate rather than eradicate. If every statue of Robert E Lee was accompanied by like "here's why the south was bad and you should feel bad for sympathising with them." Then maybe kids could get educated. As it is, people get sucked into the Lost Cause myth, and I think eradicating monuments just adds fuel to the racist fire.

Fair enough, tear down the current one. Erect a  new one with Lee in shackles and chains with plaque that says " here sits a traitor to the country , a co conspirer to destroy all non whites, may he burn in hell forever".

[Joe]

6 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

My only point is that we should educate rather than eradicate. If every statue of Robert E Lee was accompanied by like "here's why the south was bad and you should feel bad for sympathising with them." Then maybe kids could get educated. As it is, people get sucked into the Lost Cause myth, and I think eradicating monuments just adds fuel to the racist fire.

 

 

So you would be satisfied with some words at the bottom of the statue saying something to the effect of “the Confederacy was bad?”

[marioandsonic]

3 minutes ago, CayceG said:

 

Statues aren't for education. They're for edification. Having a statue with a plaque that says "actually, dude sucked" doesn't accomplish anything beyond 'both sides' nonsense. 

 

Do what one of the ex-USSR countries did. Take all the statues of Confederate Generals and put them in one park in the south dedicated to the myth that the Daughters of the Confederacy and KKK tried to cultivate and to the white supremacy that was allowed to propagate through the installation of all these statues. Make the park a memorial to the oppression caused by the people that wanted the statues installed and the people that kept them up through history. 

 

That's how you educate using these statues. 

 

Or put them in Civil War museums.

[SimpleG]

Imagine proposing a McVeigh statue gallantly riding a horse , to Oklahoma City as "educational tool" so we never forget. I imagine one would be shot and drug thru the city in under 5 mins.

[skillzdadirecta]

22 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

My only point is that we should educate rather than eradicate. If every statue of Robert E Lee was accompanied by like "here's why the south was bad and you should feel bad for sympathising with them." Then maybe kids could get educated. As it is, people get sucked into the Lost Cause myth, and I think eradicating monuments just adds fuel to the racist fire.

Dude these same forces you think will be educated by putting a disclaimer on their statues are trying to get actual history books rewritten to minimize slavery and whitewash history. 

[Joe]

Just now, skillzdadirecta said:

Dude these same forces you think will be educated by putting a disclaimer in their statues are trying to get history books rewritten to minimize slavery and whitewash history. 

 

I think Fizzzzle is just spitballing here. Comparing Confederate statues to Holocaust memorials make absolutely no sense, nor do his proposed ideas for keeping the statues. They would be met with a greater uproar than simply taking the statues down and it would never happen.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

As a resident of Richmond VA, capital of the former confederacy and home to innumerable monuments to these losers and their loser president's corpse, tearing down the monuments is a great thing and is widely supported by the community

 

That's all that matters. This majority minority city doesn't want them so we got rid of them, then reelected the guy that did it

[Zaku3]

39 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

What I find exceptionally amusing about these mass-produced statues is that they could be ordered from the catalog in either Union or Confederate uniforms.  

 

They were the same goddamned statue with essentially a "palette swap".

 

We should piss them off and do thr palette swap where we can. 

 

Actually the Perry brother's Civil War range of minis is like that. Both sides basically had the same uniforms so you can paint a box as Union or Confederate troops.

[Fizzzzle]

I'll have a more cohesive response when I'm not on my phone, but basically I think that the problem of glorification of the south only gets worse if you TaKe dOwN oUr stATues. It only furthers the victim complex that has been developing in poor white communities for the last few decades. They think they're being censored and offered oppressed (ironically). Don't feed that beast

[Joe]

3 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I'll have a more cohesive response when I'm not on my phone, but basically I think that the problem of glorification of the south only gets worse if you TaKe dOwN oUr stATues. It only furthers the victim complex that has been developing in poor white communities for the last few decades. They think they're being censored and offered oppressed (ironically). Don't feed that beast

 

And you think your proposal wouldn't?