Movies Upate: Pixar sources blame Disney+, studio leadership for Elemental's underperformance

[CastletonSnob]

More bad news for Disney/Pixar.

 

Pixar’s New Film Predicted To Be a Box Office Flop - Inside the Magic

INSIDETHEMAGIC.NET

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This doesn't sound good.

 

[Guest]

Tracking is indeed bad, but I’ve seen a decent amount of the film and it was all excellent

[Reputator]

Just speaking for myself, my excitement for Pixar films has almost totally disappeared. I think the problem is as soon as I see the premise behind most of their films, I feel like I already know every major emotional beat is going to be. I doubt that's even true, but their formula has felt more pronounced as of late.

[Bacon]

Didn't know World Industries got a movie.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

This would appear to me to be significantly attributable to the "Disney+ effect" that audience expectations reflect the notion that Pixar films will appear on the service either simultaneously with theatrical release or relatively soon thereafter.

 

17 minutes ago, Reputator said:

Just speaking for myself, my excitement for Pixar films has almost totally disappeared. I think the problem is as soon as I see the premise behind most of their films, I feel like I already know every major emotional beat is going to be. I doubt that's even true, but their formula has felt more pronounced as of late.

 

And also that was well.

[Guest]

I think it is just that Pixar hasn’t been making very good movies consistently. DFA has been much more consistent this past 10 years, even if I don’t think they hit too many real highs.

 

And while I don’t think Lassiter was a great director himself, he was a very good executive. I don’t think they’ve had great vision for the company since his ouster.

[Reputator]

10 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I think it is just that Pixar hasn’t been making very good movies consistently. DFA has been much more consistent this past 10 years, even if I don’t think they hit too many real highs.

 

And while I don’t think Lassiter was a great director himself, he was a very good executive. I don’t think they’ve had great vision for the company since his ouster.

 

Didn't most of the veteran directors leave or retire as well? I know Andrew Stanton left, not sure if Lee Unkrich (fuck spelling) is still there. I think Pete Doctor is the head dude there now? Not sure who's left.

[stepee]

They had an amazing run but you can’t stay at the top of the game forever unless you are Nintendo EPD. Even Insomniac had Fuse and Lennon had albums where he let Yoko sing.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Reputator said:

 

Didn't most of the veteran directors leave or retire as well? I know Andrew Stanton left, not sure if Lee Unkrich (fuck spelling) is still there. I think Pete Doctor is the head dude there now? Not sure who's left.

Yeah, a lot of the old guard is gone now. I get why Pixar wanted to move away from the sort of “boys club” that was the brain trust, but man, that was a fantastic group of collaborators who clearly pushed each other to produce their best work.

 

Pixar today is structured just like any other studio, and much of what made them special died with that.

[Ghost_MH]

42 minutes ago, stepee said:

They had an amazing run but you can’t stay at the top of the game forever unless you are Nintendo EPD. Even Insomniac had Fuse and Lennon had albums where he let Yoko sing.

 

Well, most studios don't manage to retain talent for decades. Nintendo' averages something like 14/15 years per employee. Google tells me Pixar is 4 years. It's just an entirely different world of talent retention that I'm not really sure exists at any other creative outlet. How long do folks stick around at Laika, Aardman, or like The Jim Henson Company? I guess even in those cases, the employees outside of the very specialized animators/puppeteers might not be anything special compared to the rest of the industry.

[SaysWho?]

Not as consistent but their highs are damned high. Finishing Turning Red right now and thought Soul was stellar. Before that, Toy Story 4 was fantastic.

 

1 hour ago, Reputator said:

 

Didn't most of the veteran directors leave or retire as well? I know Andrew Stanton left, not sure if Lee Unkrich (fuck spelling) is still there. I think Pete Doctor is the head dude there now? Not sure who's left.

 

Unkrich retired from movie directing.

 

2 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Tracking is indeed bad, but I’ve seen a decent amount of the film and it was all excellent

 

Then we'll have to boost the numbers if it's excellent. I'm putting @TheLeon on watch it 3 times a day duty. I picked him for no apparent reason.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, Reputator said:

I think the problem is as soon as I see the premise behind most of their films, I feel like I already know every major emotional beat is going to be. I doubt that's even true, but their formula has felt more pronounced as of late.

 

This post from ResetERA captures this sentiment fairly well:

 

Quote

 

But I think there might be Pixar fatigue regarding these types of films.

-Toys but what if feelings.
-Fish but what if feelings.
-Cars but what if feelings.
-Emotions but what if feelings.
-Animals but what if feelings.
-Now, elements but what if feelings.

Think they went to the well too many times with this general plotline. It's just not original anymore coming from Pixar.

 

 

[SaysWho?]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

I think it is just that Pixar hasn’t been making very good movies consistently. DFA has been much more consistent this past 10 years, even if I don’t think they hit too many real highs.

 

And while I don’t think Lassiter was a great director himself, he was a very good executive. I don’t think they’ve had great vision for the company since his ouster.

 

The past several years I'd argue were better than most of the 2010s under Lasseter. 

 

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

This post from ResetERA captures this sentiment fairly well:

 

 

 

So is Turning Red "but what if Asians had feelings?"

[Reputator]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

This post from ResetERA captures this sentiment fairly well:

WALL-E was robots but what if feelings

 

But that movie was more about societal changes and humanity. IDK it felt like that one had more to say than just its base premise.

 

Up was perhaps their most original movie.

 

But also Soul was pretty great conceptually, and it's almost to the level of their greatest movies. Underappreciated IMO.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, Reputator said:

WALL-E was robots but what if feelings

 

But that movie was more about societal changes and humanity. IDK it felt like that one had more to say than just its base premise.

 

Up was perhaps their most original movie.

 

But also Soul was pretty great conceptually, and it's almost to the level of their greatest movies. Underappreciated IMO.

Wall-E definitely had a greater societal message than merely the conveyance of emotions and Up is an absolutely fantastic film on every level.

 

For me, Soul represented a significant missed opportunity to engage with children on the subject of death itself in a gentle, compassionate way.

[SaysWho?]

Soul touched me in a way no movie has in a while and a monumental reminder of what living is.  

 

I've heard the, "But what if they had feelings," meme and I get it, but it's reductive. At the end of the day, Inside Out isn't, "What if emotions had feelings?" it's why sadness is a vital part of life and why it can lead to a grander emotional climax. Up isn't "What is dogs had feelings?" Like, that's not the actual plot, and it's no more a thing than, "So Little Mermaid is what if marine life and a fat woman had feelings?"

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

So is Turning Red "but what if Asians had feelings?"

 

Yes. 

 

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

For me, Soul represented a significant missed opportunity to engage with children on the subject of death itself in a gentle, compassionate way.

 

Bluey and even Daniel Tiger have a great episodes that deals with the finality of death and accepting it as part of life. Children are perfectly able to understand death if we just allow them too. I mean, my 7yo couldn't wrap his head around the idea of infinity until I told him it was like death in that it went on forever.

[stepee]

I get the what if feelings thing too but I think it’s almost more of a convenient explanation for Pixar losing some steam that kinda makes sense on surface level but it’s not really what a lot of those movies are about. Like Toy Story isn’t really about the fact that the toys have feelings beyond that they do. They have their own plots and messages.

 

They are just choosing different types of whatever to be the characters rather than everything being anamorphic animals or whatever like Disney used to

[SaysWho?]

The Big Bird skit on Sesame Street is a good death skit.

 

Soul isn't about death; it's about life. Teaching children about death is a noble thing, but Soul is more a movie for adults and possibly facing a midlife crisis. There is no way I'd have appreciated it as much as a kid.

[DarkStar189]

Just like the Marvel stuff, I’ve fallen off Pixar pretty hard. My kids don’t seem to have the love for much of the new stuff either. They will watch anything that comes out, but never go back to it later.

[Moa]

I feel like a lot of the recent Pixar movies are so visually busy and overwhelming that I just don't want to watch them.

[Air_Delivery]

4 hours ago, stepee said:

They had an amazing run but you can’t stay at the top of the game forever unless you are Nintendo EPD. Even Insomniac had Fuse and Lennon had albums where he let Yoko sing.

A Moon Shaped Pool from Radiohead is IMO a top tier album from them and one of my favorites. Thats a pretty damn good run.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

I'm not sure when I last watched a Pixar movie. Inside Out, maybe. It was great, but they've started to feel very same-y.

 

No wait, I watched Toy Story 4. Was that more recent? It wasn't bad, but I felt they should have left it alone after the third movie.

 

[Reputator]

26 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I'm not sure when I last watched a Pixar movie. Inside Out, maybe. It was great, but they've started to feel very same-y.

 

No wait, I watched Toy Story 4. Was that more recent? It wasn't bad, but I felt they should have left it alone after the third movie.

 

I liked Soul better than TS4, fwiw.

[SaysWho?]

TS4 is my favorite Toy Story.

 

Soul is such a lovely film.

 

Turning Red was impressive in that there's no way the movie would work as it does if Pete Docter or Andrew Stanton were directing; it needed the perspective of an Asian woman to direct, and so it works. It's also much much much flashier than I ever thought it would be.

[Mercury33]

Dreamworks and Illumination have been making better and/or more entertaining movies than Pixar for years. 
 

Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is better than anything Pixar has done in 15 years. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Pixar is scrambling to win back its audience

WWW.INSIDER.COM

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Sources within Pixar and industry experts told Insider that Disney+ and a lack of tough love are to blame for the slump at Disney's animation house.

 

 

Quote

Insider spoke with studio executives, movie-theater owners, box-office analysts, and sources within Pixar, who said that the beloved animation house is on a "misguided mission." They said Pixar is suffering from a lack of excellence combined with an influx of its titles onto Disney+ during the pandemic.

 

Quote

 

Sources told Insider that putting Pixar titles on Disney+ had lasting damaging effects

 

Pixar's trouble started when COVID hit in 2020 and executives at Disney released its titles "Luca" and "Turning Red" on its streaming service Disney+ instead of in theaters. It led to frustration by staff who wanted their work to be seen on the big screen, as Insider previously reported.

 

 

Quote

 

Sources blamed Pixar's slump on 'Soul' director Pete Docter, who's not as tough on quality as his predecessor John Lasseter

 

However, several industry sources and some within Pixar believe the slump at the company goes beyond the bad marketing of "Elemental." They said Pixar's troubles are because of the loss of its longtime leader John Lasseter, who had a reputation for never settling and demanding excellence.

 

Pixar sources said the studio's current CCO, "Soul" director Pete Docter, lacks that intense drive for a higher quality of work that Lasseter possessed.

 

"That didn't help 'Lightyear,'" said a Pixar source regarding Docter's kinder and gentler leadership, which they said resulted in the lackluster box office. "I don't think John would have ever let 'Lightyear' happen." 

 

 

[Kal-El814]

3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Pixar is scrambling to win back its audience

WWW.INSIDER.COM

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Sources within Pixar and industry experts told Insider that Disney+ and a lack of tough love are to blame for the slump at Disney's animation house.

 

 

Getting out there and saying that Pixar would be better if the guy that left because of sexual harassment is... a lot. And "tough love" is just atrocious wording considering who they're talking about, Jesus Christ.

[Reputator]

Didn't The Good Dinosaur and Cars 2 happen under Lasseter?

 

Doesn't really sound like 'tough love' is the issue.

[SaysWho?]

11 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Getting out there and saying that Pixar would be better if the guy that left because of sexual harassment is... a lot. And "tough love" is just atrocious wording considering who they're talking about, Jesus Christ.

 

3 hours ago, Reputator said:

Didn't The Good Dinosaur and Cars 2 happen under Lasseter?

 

Doesn't really sound like 'tough love' is the issue.

I think people forget that after TS3, it was Cars 2, Brave, Monsters University, Inside Out, The Good Dinosaur, Finding Dory, Cars 3, Coco, and The Incredibles 2.

 

There are two upper Pixar works for a damn decade! Weren’t we talking about how they had sequelitis during the 2010s? I’m still surprised Dory/I2 got the critical response that they did. I feel I’m being gaslit by being told everything was consistent and great until recently.

 

Dunno what involvement besides initial involvement he had on Toy Story 4, but that, Soul, and Turning Red are great, imo, and even though I thought Onward was just good and Lightyear was fine, I do appreciate the new IPs or different takes (Lightyear) they’ve been trying for the past three years. We’ll likely be getting TS5 and Inside Out 2 this decade. And both could be lovely! I just do dig the attempts at new worlds.

[stepee]

4 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

I think people forget that after TS3, it was Cars 2, Brave, Monsters University, Inside Out, The Good Dinosaur, Finding Dory, Cars 3, Coco, and The Incredibles 2.

 

There are two upper Pixar works for a damn decade! Weren’t we talking about how they had sequelitis during the 2010s? I’m still surprised Dory/I2 got the critical response that they did. I feel I’m being gaslit by being told everything was consistent and great until recently.

 

Dunno what involvement besides initial involvement he had on Toy Story 4, but that, Soul, and Turning Red are great, imo, and even though I thought Onward was just good and Lightyear was fine, I do appreciate the new IPs or different takes (Lightyear) they’ve been trying for the past three years. We’ll likely be getting TS5 and Inside Out 2 this decade. And both could be lovely! I just do dig the attempts at new worlds.

 

A WHOLE new world? Like, a new fantastic point of view?

[Jason]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

 

A WHOLE new world? Like, a new fantastic point of view?

 

No one to tell us "No", or where to go?

[SaysWho?]

2 hours ago, stepee said:

 

A WHOLE new world? Like, a new fantastic point of view?

 

Why don't we do it in the road?

[Mercury33]

Sounds like Pixar should stop clamoring for other people to blame. Write better scripts. Make better movies. Luca and Red wouldn’t have been mega hits no matter what. 

[SaysWho?]

5 minutes ago, Mercury33 said:

Sounds like Pixar should stop clamoring for other people to blame. Write better scripts. Make better movies. Luca and Red wouldn’t have been mega hits no matter what. 

 

Turning Red was a critical darling and I've heard great WOM about it. I thought it was a surprisingly high-energy movie and really good, and also one that couldn't have been made with the original crew working there.