EU standardizing around USB-C, death of lightning in sight

[ort]

2 minutes ago, chakoo said:

Front Page | USB-IF

USB.ORG

 

Please stop asking stupid what if questions. 

 

That uses the same connector. What happens if you invent a superior connector a decade from now.

 

You're the one that started acting like a condescending jerk off. I'm willing to not escalate, but seriously dude.

[ort]

3 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Lightning is not good in 2022. It’s a much less rugged connector both on the cable and the device than USB-C.

 

And there is absolutely no way there are more lightning devices in the wild than USB-C 😂😂😂

 

I've had both Lightning and USB-C ports go bad. I think Lightning feels much less robust because it's much more likely to be used in high-stress use cases. Let's see how USB-C holds up after we've been twisting and pulling on cables using it for a decade. I'm going to bet it will be better, but I don't think it's that much better. I guess we'll see.

 

There are 1.8 Billion active iOS devices in use right now. I think there is a very good chance that there are more active lightning devices than USB-C. If there are more USB-C it's probably not by a huge margin.

 

According to this half of all phones sold in 2018 still used Micro-USB. I don't know, maybe my math is off, but I bet it's closer than most think.

 

EU agrees all phones and tablets must have a common charger by 2024

WWW.EURONEWS.COM

---

Apple will have to change the connector on iPhones sold in Europe by 2024.

 

Half the chargers sold with mobile phones in 2018 had a USB micro-B connector, while 29 per cent had a USB-C connector and 21 per cent a Lightning connector, according to a 2019 Commission study.

[CitizenVectron]

57 minutes ago, ort said:

I think Apple gets way too much undeserved flak for this...

 

What is the common criticism... oh, apple makes you buy a whole new adaptor ever year. They just want money, blah blah blah....

 

Well, Lightning has been on everything they sell for 10 years now. In the world of charging cables that may as well be 100 years. Isn't that what people want? Lightning cables are great. They started out great and they are still great. They stuck with them for a decade straight. That is something that should be applauded, not condemned.

 

I guarantee you that this law passing will end up having a much greater short term negative environment effect. Every "apple" house that is filled with perfectly working lightning cables everywhere will have to switch over. The transition period where half your families stuff is lightning and the other half is USB-C also sucks... although we're already there...

 

It's also funny that they get flak for not going USB-C when they were heavily involved in creating the standard (not confirmed, but strongly rumored to have created the entire connector system by themselves)  and were one of the first companies to make a real hard push USB-C, by making it the only connector port on their entire laptop line years before the rest of the industry was doing it.

 

I also wonder what happens when 5 years from now something way better than USB-C comes out. How will it get introduced to the world? What is the incentive for anyone to innovate in this field ever again?

 

All that said, I'm down for switching everything to USB-C. Sometimes you just have to rip off the band-aid... Let's just do it. It will SUPER suck for a few years as we transition through a phase of having devices charge both ways throughout our house, but in like 2-3 years it will be great... but until then, oof...

 

It's ironic that people defend Apple for a proprietary standard (and how it makes sense to keep it) while at the same time ignoring that Apple is the most backwards-incompatible company on the planet, in terms of making all the old OSs and whatnot obsolete every few years. Oh, you had software that ran fine? Too bad, the new OS doesn't support it.

[ort]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

It's ironic that people defend Apple for a proprietary standard (and how it makes sense to keep it) while at the same time ignoring that Apple is the most backwards-incompatible company on the planet, in terms of making all the old OSs and whatnot obsolete every few years. Oh, you had software that ran fine? Too bad, the new OS doesn't support it.

 

This feels like a weird beef to have. The general consensus is that this is one of their strengths. Supporting old hardware for much longer than most of the industry.

 

What are you specifically referring to?

[chakoo]

18 minutes ago, ort said:

 

That uses the same connector. What happens if you invent a superior connector a decade from now.

 

You're the one that started acting like a condescending jerk off. I'm willing to not escalate, but seriously dude.

 

You do know who I linked to is the body who controls the USB standard both spec and connectors. That is made up of manufactures who follow said standards that it sets out. You keep asking not valid hypotheticals as if it validates the point your trying to make without understanding the actual state of things. Not to mention the EU law has many carve outs for specific cases along with a path for upgrading to updated specs.

 

This whole law isn't because somehow lighting is a better spec and cable, it's apple's reluctances to update to industry standards because they feel like it.

[ort]

33 minutes ago, chakoo said:

 

You do know who I linked to is the body who controls the USB standard both spec and connectors. That is made up of manufactures who follow said standards that it sets out. You keep asking not valid hypotheticals as if it validates the point your trying to make without understanding the actual state of things. Not to mention the EU law has many carve outs for specific cases along with a path for upgrading to updated specs.

 

This whole law isn't because somehow lighting is a better spec and cable, it's apple's reluctances to update to industry standards because they feel like it.

 

Apple is one of the main members of the USB standards body. They are rumored to have single handeledly invented the physical USB-C connector and were heavily involved in creating the standard. They were one of the primary companies pushing for its use in the beginning. They pushed their entire line of laptops to USB-C only way before the industry had adopted it. They weren't the very first to use it, but they were the first mainstream company to push it in a big way. Apple is all over USB-C.

 

We're at a point I time where we are probably looking at a time coming up soon where devices won't have physical connectors at all. It's very possible that USB-C will dominate for the next 10 years and won't be replaced by anything. I know there are carve outs, but it adds tons of friction to the process. It will slow progress. If this law existed 20 years ago, where would we be today? we don't know.

 

I think Apple should have jumped off Lightning years ago... but I understand why they don't. They really have little incentive to do so. In the short term it's just going to upset huge swaths of their customers.

 

Nerds like us want them to go USB-C, but I guarantee you that the vast majority do not. Even if it will be better for them in a couple years, they won't care. All it will do it make them annoyed at Apple. It's also not because they don't want to stop making money from lightning cables. I think they amount of money they get from lightning cable sales is probably a rounding error on a fraction of a sliver of a percentage point in the giant bucket of money they make. The amount of discontent it will stir in their customer base is much more of a painful pill for them to swallow.

 

It's not just because Apple doesn't feel like it.

[TUFKAK]

ITT connections are serious business 

[ort]

1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

ITT connections are serious business 

 

Fuck yeah they are.

 

I don't know why, but I find this meaningless shit fascinating. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

It's ironic that people defend Apple for a proprietary standard (and how it makes sense to keep it) while at the same time ignoring that Apple is the most backwards-incompatible company on the planet, in terms of making all the old OSs and whatnot obsolete every few years. Oh, you had software that ran fine? Too bad, the new OS doesn't support it.

 

Other than stuff from the power pc architecture days, what doesn't work for many generations on Mac OS?

[Jwheel86]

*plugs Pixel 5 into wheelchair's USB port to charge*

[ort]

6 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

*plugs Pixel 5 into wheelchair's USB port to charge*

 

*plugs lightning cable into same port?*

 

...or do wheelchairs have male USB-C charging cables? I really don't know.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

And the data transfer speeds are a fucking joke on Lightning. Backing up my phone to my computer takes forever. When I initially loaded my music collection onto my phone it took the better part of the day. Christ.

 

Yeah updating with a lightning cable connection is slower than doing it OTA.

[Jwheel86]

Just now, ort said:

 

*plugs lightning cable into same port?*

 

...or do wheelchairs have male USB-C charging cables? I really don't know.

 

It's a normal USB-A port with a C cable routed from the back under the arm rest to a phone holder. My ex was always annoyed I couldn't charge her iPhone off my chair. 

[Ghost_MH]

49 minutes ago, ort said:

 

I've had both Lightning and USB-C ports go bad. I think Lightning feels much less robust because it's much more likely to be used in high-stress use cases. Let's see how USB-C holds up after we've been twisting and pulling on cables using it for a decade. I'm bet it will be better, but I don't think it's that much better. I guess we'll see.

 

There are 1.8 Billion active iOS devices in use right now. I think there is a very good chance that there are more active lightning devices than USB-C. If there are more USB-C it's probably not by a huge margin.

 

According to this half of all phones sold in 2018 still used Micro-USB. I don't know, maybe my math is off, but I bet it's closer than most think.

 

EU agrees all phones and tablets must have a common charger by 2024

WWW.EURONEWS.COM

---

Apple will have to change the connector on iPhones sold in Europe by 2024.

 

Half the chargers sold with mobile phones in 2018 had a USB micro-B connector, while 29 per cent had a USB-C connector and 21 per cent a Lightning connector, according to a 2019 Commission study.

 

There is zero chance there are more Lightning connected devices than USB-C devices. USB-C connectors are on all modern PCs (including Apple's own), phones, cars, tablets (including Apple's own), toys, keyboard, mice, laptops (including Apple's own), and other peripherals like webcams.

 

Samsung, alone, moves 250-300m phones every year and they've been USB-C across all devices since 2019. Xiaomi is another 200m a year and they've been USB-C since 2016.

 

Like I said. Zero chance there are more Lightning devices and it's not even remotely close.

[osxmatt]

Most of the devices in my house, including my Apple devices, feature USB-C.

 

It will be nice when my iPhone has USB-C too.

[PaladinSolo]

I can't honestly see anyone giving a shit if their next apple product has a USB-C port instead of a lightning port, except for apple fanatics, who are irrelevant.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

There is zero chance there are more Lightning connected devices than USB-C devices. USB-C connectors are on all modern PCs (including Apple's own), phones, cars, tablets (including Apple's own), toys, keyboard, mice, laptops (including Apple's own), and other peripherals like webcams.

 

Samsung, alone, moves 250-300m phones every year and they've been USB-C across all devices since 2019. Xiaomi is another 200m a year and they've been USB-C since 2016.

 

Like I said. Zero chance there are more Lightning devices and it's not even remotely close.

Yeah, even just on the phone side of things USB-C has outpaced Lightning for several years.

 

Just thinking about my office, I have a Mac Pro, custom PC, Macbook Pro, Logitech webcam, two USB-C microphones, a USB-C light, an iPad, two sets of headphones, a wireless charging pad, and a few portable SSDs.

 

So just in my office I have more USB-C devices than the 5 iPhones my family use 😂

[AbsolutSurgen]

1)  Who backs up their phone over a cable in 2022?

2)  Why does anyone have a strong opinion over what connection their phone uses?

3)  I haven't noticed a longevity difference between the 3rd party nylon braided cables I bought for my USB-C/Lightning devices

4)  I still have devices that charge over micro-USB, doesn't everyone?

[mclumber1]

One cable that can charge all of your devices is really nice.  Everything I use now (including my laptop) is USB-C, with the exception of a pair of bluetooth headphones that I have, which still rely on micro-USB.  

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

1)  Who backs up their phone over a cable in 2022?

2)  Why does anyone have a strong opinion over what connection their phone uses?

3)  I haven't noticed a longevity difference between the 3rd party nylon braided cables I bought for my USB-C/Lightning devices

4)  I still have devices that charge over micro-USB, doesn't everyone?

 

My kids all have iPads and my daughter also has an iPhone. They're the only devices in my house that don't use USB-C. All the other phones tablets, headsets, worries earbuds, laptops, my desktop, security cameras, Switches, gamepads, webcams, VR headset, whatever.

 

It sucks not being able to charge everything, everywhere. I have a bunch of 100w GaN USB-C chargers littered throughout the house that can charge anything, but the Lightning stuff. It's very annoying.

 

And yes, my kids still have a few toys that are microUSB. That and an old Jabra headset ihave are the only things I own that are still microUSB. Even my daughter's $40 keytar has a USB-C port on it and has no problem being charged on those same 100w GaN charger.

[ort]

When I was referring to USB-C vs lightning numbers I was talking more about phones and less about things like webcams, laptops and hard drives... but even with that I'm probably completely off on my thinking. There are more USB-C devices.

 

America is really an outlier here and it probably causes a decent amount of biased thinking in my mind. In America the iOS / Android split is roughly 50/50... but those numbers are nowhere close anywhere else in the world. Android is more popular in Europe (like a 66/33 split) and way way way more popular everywhere else (besides Japan, which I think is also 50/50).

[best3444]

This was a hell of a good read through this thread. Thank you!

[BloodyHell]

2 hours ago, ort said:

 

The complication is that the 4 devices that need the most frequent and convenient charging are all lightning. All devices don't get equal weight.

 

I've already said that me personally, I want the change. Make the switch. It will suck for 2-3 years and then be better.

 

I just think it's a way more tricky issue than Lightning bad LOL, which seems to be the general level of discourse whenever this topic comes up anywhere. No one wants to even acknowledge that this issue isn't so cut and dried.

Its literally "lightening bad". Nobody wants them except you, and EVERYONE has USBC cables. They come with everything. I can't even fathom why it would bother you, they aren't making you add it to your current devices. Why would you care that your next phone has an objectively better cable format?

 

The amount of people upset will be completely insignificant.

[Air_Delivery]

USB-C is better in every way so the sooner the death of lightning the better.

[ort]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

Its literally "lightening bad". Nobody wants them except you, and EVERYONE has USBC cables. They come with everything. I can't even fathom why it would bother you, they aren't making you add it to your current devices. Why would you care that your next phone has an objectively better cable format?

 

The amount of people upset will be completely insignificant.

 

It seems like you missed the 2 or 3 times I've said I too would prefer if they moved to USB-C.

 

All I've been trying to convey is that this isn't necessarily as black and white as people make it out to be.

 

I also don't know if passing laws is the best way to handle this, because I do worry about what that does to future technical progress. I understand very well the other sides of the issue, but I think it's complicated. It doesn't seem like the kind of thing the government should be getting involved in.

[Air_Delivery]

What is even the point of lightning? USB-C carry more current and destroys it in data transfer. Its a zombie standard that only has been kept alive by Apple like Firewire.


Now the EU needs to force Apple to drag and drop files and the iPhone will be perfect.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, ort said:

All I've been trying to convey is that this isn't necessarily as black and white as people make it out to be.

 

This thread has only made me more certain that it's a non-issue to make the change. I hadn't really thought that deeply about how ubiquitous USB-C has become in 2022, and it will be even more dominant in 2024.

[Kal-El814]

Any symmetrical port is fine, anything else should be launched into the sun.

 

I honestly don't think I can remember any symmetrical port fail in of itself, it's either always been the cords or someone jamming a micro USB cable into the port the wrong way.

 

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

1)  Who backs up their phone over a cable in 2022?

2)  Why does anyone have a strong opinion over what connection their phone uses?

3)  I haven't noticed a longevity difference between the 3rd party nylon braided cables I bought for my USB-C/Lightning devices

4)  I still have devices that charge over micro-USB, doesn't everyone?

 

1) Me because I am insane

2) I don't

3) I've never had a problem with any cord from a decent brand (Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Anker, Amazon) with the notable exception of whatever HDMI cable shipped with my PS4 Pro

4) Yes and I hate it

[MarSolo]

I always backed my phone up via iCloud but I always kept a backup on my computer as well.

[Ghost_MH]

9 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Any symmetrical port is fine, anything else should be launched into the sun.

 

I honestly don't think I can remember any symmetrical port fail in of itself, it's either always been the cords or someone jamming a micro USB cable into the port the wrong way.

 

If there's a will, there's a way. My oldest broke his Switch Lite's USB-C port by jamming the lightning cable so hard into the port he destroyed both the port on his Switch and the Lightning cable. He's six, so I was more impressed than upset. A replacement USB-C port is like $6 and he's the one whose lost access to all his games, so there are better things to get upset over.

 

My 5 year old also killed her iPhone's Lightning port by stuffing...something. I'm not really sure what, but she stuck something in there that bent it so out of shape I can't fit a Lightning cable in there anymore.

[ort]

My kid destroyed the Switches USB-C port as well. Just by using it too rough while it was plugged in. He's also killed two iPads in this way.

 

We destroy wires like you wouldn't believe. I used to just throw them out, but for last 2-3 years or so I've been saving every dead cable and winding them up into a big ball of shame. There are probably 20 cables in that ball.

 

I just buy cheap ass 5 packs of cables on amazon. I'm convinced I get better bang for my buck by buying 5 cables for $15, then better quality ones. The better quality ones will last longer, but not longer enough to justify the cost.

 

I use a label maker to put a little "DAD" ribbon on the cables on my desk and nightstand. No one but me is allowed to use any "DAD" cable in my house.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

[ort]

7 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

 A replacement USB-C port is like $6

 

Wait, you mean one you put in yourself? Because when our's broke (like 3 years ago) I sent it into Nintendo and they charged me like $150 bucks to fix it and I was pissed as hell... because I felt like they shared at least part of the blame for making crap hardware and that their repair price was onerous for a $300 device.

[TwinIon]

I don't really love the idea that a government is stepping in to force a company to comply to a standard like this, but I'll be very happy to see the iPhone finally change to USB-C even though I don't have one. I'm that guy that always has a bunch of cables and adapters and what not, but other than a couple universal cables, I don't carry anything with lightning.

 

On the other hand, I have a bunch of USB-C cables and other adapters and docks. I enjoy that I can use a dock for my laptop, iPad, and my phone if I ever want to connect one to a TV or another USB device, or even ethernet.

[Ghost_MH]

5 hours ago, ort said:

Wait, you mean one you put in yourself? Because when our's broke (like 3 years ago) I sent it into Nintendo and they charged me like $150 bucks to fix it and I was pissed as hell... because I felt like they shared at least part of the blame for making crap hardware and that their repair price was onerous for a $300 device.

 

Yeah, you have to be comfortable soldering small parts, but the Switch USB-C ports are crazy cheap. Even an OEM part is only like $15 with third party parts coming in at half the price. It's just a shame the USB-C port isn't modular. The analog sticks on all three models can be replaced without a soldering. I know the gamecard slot on the original and lite are modular so you only need a screw driver for those. Same goes for the microSD card on the original. Honestly, even replacing the screen on the original and lite is pretty easy. Literally need nothing more than a screwdriver and hair dryer to undo the adhesive on the front half of the shell.

 

I haven't had a need to open to the OLED, but I'd be pretty sad if it was harder to fix than the other models.