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Member Since 09 Dec 2010
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In Topic: More women stuff - Background decoration?

Today, 09:55 PM

View PostSimpleG, on 02 September 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

I feel like I am the only one reading Scapes posts. The whole point of the level was NOT to save the women, infact you dont know what happens to them.The only point was to kill the target.

Guys, this CANNOT POSSIBLY be a coniferous forest. Look at this one oak tree!

View PostScape Zero, on 02 September 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Brooding male?  I admit, 47 isnt exactly a small, or a weak looking character, but hes not exactly Marcus Fenix.  Also, another flaw with your argument... He isnt saving a woman!  He does not go there to save anyone, he goes there for revenge.  There isnt a damsel in distress waiting for him to come save her.  There isnt a girl there going "Oh, if only I wasnt so burdened by my vagina, making me so weak and useless!  Save me 47!  Save me!"

You know Hitman has been around for quite awhile right?  Its not so much that they designed the game with the hopes of reaching here, its the game fits this direction.  You kill criminals.  In Absolution, you are personally killing criminals.  Sometimes, criminals traffic women.  Actually, crime lords often do this.  It makes sense that one of the criminals you kill, would be this type of person.  I hardly see Hitman a game thats a decade in the making, made specifically so one day they could introduce a strip club.  Thats such flawed logic.

Oh, so since other games use it, that means no one ever can again?  Is that just something thats off the table now?  We need to have men be victimized for a decade, then we can introduce women into the mix, but only slightly?

Im not cherry picking shit.  Her argument is that you are brought to a strip club, and put into this specific situation specifically so you can murder women, and have murder rape fantasies.  Thats her point.  She takes a game, with countless different scenarios, putting you in basically everything you can think of, and find one with two females alone, and then murders them saying thats what the developers intended.  Thats cherry picking.  I am talking about the game AND series as a whole.  One that doesnt discriminate gender.  How is that cherry picking?  Im literally telling you the story of other games in the series, and the rest of the story in this game?

Yes, one of the bad guys has a history of trafficking women, and treating them poorly.  Does that fit her argument?  No, because its not a commonly used plot device.  The role of women in Hitman are not used this way, outside of ONE situation, which is a realistic one.  Every criminal you come across has a realistic story, why is this one off limits?  Because other games have done it?  So?  Those games may use female as damsels, but Hitman certainly does not.

Okay this has to be a joke. You cannot call her our for cherry picking while posting about how this only happens in Hitman one time. It's completely missing her point.

In Topic: More women stuff - Background decoration?

Today, 07:46 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 02 September 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

Because ONE character uses this?

Im sorry, but thats an actual thing PEOPLE DO!  People traffic women.  It happens in the real world.  Is it that crazy that ONE character has that backstory?  Is that not an authentic backstory for a crime lord?  Its not like every damn character uses this.  You need to cherry pick hard to fault Hitman for that.

The issue isn't "Agent 47 needs to kill a guy in a strip club." The issue is that in an attempt to make an engaging scenario, we're brought into a situation in which the brooding male hero needs to save a woman, and the situation in which she finds herself is sexually exploitative.

The fact that scenarios akin to this are common is the problem. The fact that developers are designing entire character arcs with the notion that this will lend "authenticity" to their game that features an enormous, cloned, professional killer with a barcode tattooed to the back of his head is the problem.

View PostScape Zero, on 02 September 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Not really.  It might be a little lazy, but both genders are used the same way, at least in Hitman.  They arent singling out either gender here.

The point is females are used in ways that they are victims.  Hitman is a good example of using women who arent victims as part of the plot.  Yes, sometimes women are used as victims, much the same way they use men too.  Call it lazy, but dont call it a point for Anita, because its not.  Its cherry picking at that point.

This is a not a good argument. "Both genders are used in the same way," completely misses the mark. The ratio is HORRIBLY skewed, which again, IS THE POINT. It's like saying Princess Peach isn't a generally useless space cadet because she doesn't get kidnapped in about half the games she's in, and she had one game of her own that one time.

You're looking at her point in a ridiculously reductive and narrow way. The way she presents it isn't perfect, but the substance of the argument is there. And you're cherry picking FAR more than she is, to the point that I'm wondering if lamenting about it being "ONE character" or that it happens to "both genders" isn't a joke that I just missed. If not... come on, man.

In Topic: More women stuff - Background decoration?

Today, 07:26 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 02 September 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Now, I know what you will say next.  "Well, why does it NEED to be a strip club"?  Because it helps paint the guy as an awful human.  He is the owner of the strip club.  Oh I get whats coming next; Why does he NEED to own a strip club?  You didnt let me finish.  In the strip club he owns, the women who work there are forced into prostitution, and raped/murdered if become defiant.  Its used to get you to WANT this guy dead, as badly as 47 would.  Its not set up so you can jack off a bit while finding which way you want to kill Dom.  The strip club is set up to paint Dom as a bad person.  Not to mention, a lot of shady people own shady business like strip clubs.  While Hitman isnt going for hyper-realism, it does go for authenticity.

The strip club fits the story.  Yes, it could have been a fucking McDonalds the guy did all this shit in, however, that just doesnt fit as well.  Strippers make up a tiny portion of that level.  You have the main room, pass them once more, and then the part Anita talks about.  The rest is shady gang shit.  You never really look at them.  The Hitman series has used damn near every situation you can think of, the mansions, basically all of Russia, a carnival, broken down gang hideouts, hotels, casinos, motels, mardi gras, basically anything you can think of that fits the crime, corrupt politician, or mob boss scenario.  The strip club fits just as well as all of these other places do, and fits the same exact way.  Its not used as fan service, its not used to give 14 year olds boners.  Its used because its an authentic place to find a crime lord.

This post validates Anita's point, by the way.

We need to provide some context around one of the hitman's targets.
We will make the target unlikable.
We will make the target unlikable by showing that his relationship with women is depraved, that he's involved in the exploitation and trafficking of women.

The whole setup is reliant upon stroking stereotypes of women in videogames, be it the damsel in distress, showing the "strength" of a female character by how much she's put through the wringer, etc. So yes, the strip club "fits the story..." that's the point.

View PostScape Zero, on 02 September 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Luckily for her, they also use male characters as vehicles to hate villains.

And that misses the point.

In Topic: More women stuff - Background decoration?

Today, 01:55 PM

View PostTheManFiveGrand, on 02 September 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Ehhh...just like with books & film, there are literally thousands of other choices available if one doesn't like the content of a specific piece of media.  Let devs make what they want, and the marketplace will decide what it wants to consume.

That's not the point, though.

To make up an example, if we were talking about how girls are ported in young adult fiction, simply pointing out that kids can read something other than YA books is certainly true, but it also doesn't have any bearing on the discussion.

In Topic: More women stuff - Background decoration?

Today, 01:51 PM

View PostSimpleG, on 30 August 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

This comment comment alone cements why so many dislike what shes pushing.Does really think every female NPC needs a fully fleshed out story of their own.This tells me that at a basic fundamental level she doesn't understand what it takes create and design a video game much less basic story telling.Must every female character in every book,song,and movie have a fully fleshed out story just to appease her?

Do you really think that's what she meant? :raisedbrow:

View PostSimpleG, on 30 August 2014 - 03:24 AM, said:

Fuck man can you imagine if Mario had to stop and listen to every turtle and koopas sob story before jumping on them and moving forward with the level, its mind numbing how this women won the Gaming Ambassador Award this year.Christ my 17 yr old daughter deserves that award more than she does.

If you're going to criticize someone's perspective on women in video games, it might be worth thinking of doing it in a way that doesn't compare women to Koopa Troopas. You realized you just proved her point, right? :P

View Postsblfilms, on 30 August 2014 - 01:46 AM, said:

It is very obvious that most people commenting on these videos either 1.) didn't watch them at all/didn't watch the whole thing, and/or 2.) didn't actually understand any of the major points Anita was making. The comments here about her issues with the whorehouse trope makes it easy to see the people who fall squarely in that second category.

What about my sense of entitlement? :(