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FFXIV: ARR - Patch 2.2 "Through the Maelstrom" release on 3/27/14!


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#1016 Scape Zero

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 11:09 PM

View PostThe_Dude, on 07 September 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Is there any perk to being a pure class?

No.  Just know, jobs are more restricted than classes when it comes to abilities.  As an archer, I can use any classes multi-class abilities, but as bard, I can only use MRD and LNC.  There are perks to counter that though, I get BRD only abilities ARC cant use, and I get a stat boost as well.
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#1017 Air_Delivery

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:48 AM

Classes can be better for soloing or low number party groups,because they get access to more cross class abilities.
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#1018 LionFranco

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 09:18 AM

View PostAir_Delivery, on 08 September 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

Classes can be better for soloing or low number party groups,because they get access to more cross class abilities.

Yeah, switching to Bard cost me to of the cross class healing abilities, so i may just do bard in groups and dungeons.
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#1019 Scape Zero

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:36 AM

View PostAir_Delivery, on 08 September 2013 - 03:48 AM, said:

Classes can be better for soloing or low number party groups,because they get access to more cross class abilities.

Early on, maybe.  Not at 50 though.  On both BRD and DRG I get better DPS than ARC or LNC, and still get access to my main cure from PUG.  Granted, this changes from class to class.

View PostLionFranco, on 08 September 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Yeah, switching to Bard cost me to of the cross class healing abilities, so i may just do bard in groups and dungeons.

Right, but our cure also sucks.  You cant really outlast a mob with it, you will get hit for significantly more than it cures.  You are basically stopping damage, to just get hit.  LNC and MNK are basically the best classes to take abilities from, and we can already take their abilities.

Then there is the "We are a ranged class, if you are getting hit you are doing it wrong" thing.  Unless we are fighting a ranged mob, we can kite whatever we are fighting and just not get hit.  Ive cleared a lot of the harder solo fights with out using a healing ability once.  On some of the lower dungeons, Ive basically solod some of the bosses.  Killing things quickly helps soloing way more than something that cures for 40, when we are getting hit for 200, and since we can avoid the whole getting hit part of things, Second Wind and a potion is generally all we need.
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#1020 TheLeon

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 11:44 AM

As a relative newcomer to MMOs (past level 15, at least :P ) I appreciated that introductory series of 4-man dungeons. Simple introduction to fighting as a group, with things getting a bit more complicated by the end of Copperbell.
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#1021 Scape Zero

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostTheLeon, on 08 September 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

As a relative newcomer to MMOs (past level 15, at least :P ) I appreciated that introductory series of 4-man dungeons. Simple introduction to fighting as a group, with things getting a bit more complicated by the end of Copperbell.

Do guildhests.  They are basically the tutorial mode for the game.
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#1022 Irreverent79

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:25 PM

Is there a trick to getting this now? I was going to check it out today but digital download is blocked and it's sold out everywhere.
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#1023 Z3M0G

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 08 September 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:



Do guildhests.  They are basically the tutorial mode for the game.

Really?  So they are early game content?  Where do you start them?

#1024 Xbob42

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostZ3M0G, on 08 September 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Really?  So they are early game content?  Where do you start them?

There should be an NPC around the levequest NPC in each camp that allows you to do Guildhests.  Each one you complete unlocks the next one, assuming you're high enough level for the next one.  (It's two per 5 levels, so 2 at 10, 2 at 15, 2 at 20, etc.)

They start you with very basic dungeon concepts and begin to really ramp it up to advanced stuff with NPCs explaining what you should be paying attention to.  They get quite hard, actually.  But they also offer very large gil rewards.
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#1025 Z3M0G

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 07:23 PM

View PostXbob42, on 08 September 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:



There should be an NPC around the levequest NPC in each camp that allows you to do Guildhests.  Each one you complete unlocks the next one, assuming you're high enough level for the next one.  (It's two per 5 levels, so 2 at 10, 2 at 15, 2 at 20, etc.)

They start you with very basic dungeon concepts and begin to really ramp it up to advanced stuff with NPCs explaining what you should be paying attention to.  They get quite hard, actually.  But they also offer very large gil rewards.

The story should more directly lead you to these.  Would help before actual story dungeons.

#1026 EvilFriedBacon

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

Holy fuck that story quest, The Heretic Among Us, was a bitch as DPS. I didn't die, but the NPC's kept dying. I failed 4 times because I could not keep the NPC's alive. If I was a tank or healer, I think it would be easier.
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#1027 Xbob42

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:25 PM

View PostEvilFriedBacon, on 08 September 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

Holy fuck that story quest, The Heretic Among Us, was a bitch as DPS. I didn't die, but the NPC's kept dying. I failed 4 times because I could not keep the NPC's alive. If I was a tank or healer, I think it would be easier.

Trick is to just get aggro on the enemies before the NPCs do!
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#1028 EvilFriedBacon

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 10:42 PM

View PostXbob42, on 08 September 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Trick is to just get aggro on the enemies before the NPCs do!

I did but I had to keep running because I couldn't take the beating. And every so often the boss would just attack the NPC's. I think the only reason I beat him was because of, The Echo, buff.  Plus, I could not stun nor could I use the skills that were position dependent because I had aggro.
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#1029 Z3M0G

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:23 AM

Yah I don't really dig how the story battles are set up... they should adjust according to your class... perhaps provide NPCs that serve as the other roles (Tank/DD/Healer) and leave you free to play as you wish.

This is probably the main reason that the battles get easier with each retry thanks to "the echo"... just so that some classes have a chance to succeed.

But hey... It's better than 1.0 where the story was designed to be beatable by crafters and gatherers... (that's how I remember it, at least.)

------------

Did the first 4 or 5 Guildhests last night and they are pretty cool.  Damn huge rewards for completing them the first time!  The story really should direct you to the Battlewarden NPC at level 10... everyone should be semi-forced to do Guildhests before tackling the dungeons at level 15.  They teach you the basics of the basics of group combat...

------------

Some are struggling to level between 45-50... are Guildhests and Guildleves a viable option at those levels??

#1030 LionFranco

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:08 AM

View PostZ3M0G, on 09 September 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:



Some are struggling to level between 45-50... are Guildhests and Guildleves a viable option at those levels??

They should be, as when i was exploring Coerthas and Mor Dohna on Saturday i saw levemetes, and i think the Guildhest levemetes too at the Aetherites that i found. So yeah, there are likely level 45 to 50 leves that you can do to level up.

Honestly, i kinda want to run Haukke Manor again, that was alot of fun!
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#1031 Scape Zero

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:33 AM

View PostZ3M0G, on 09 September 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Some are struggling to level between 45-50... are Guildhests and Guildleves a viable option at those levels??

Those are probably the easiest levels.  Go to Northan Thanalan and do FATEs there.  There is one called Dark Devices that you can get upwards of 200k for doing, since the first mission requires you to kill lambs, but if you dont kill them, it just keeps spawning an endless wave of enemies, and you just keep killing them and killing them and killing them, and by the time that one is finished, you have about 200k, depending on how good your party was at claiming and doing damage.  Then that also goes on to three more FATEs that give you 30k each.
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#1032 Vacu1ty

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 10:52 AM

Just hit 40 today with my ACN. Gotta make that final push in the next couple weeks to hit 50.
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#1033 Edgekun

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:17 AM

Next couple weeks?! Should take you one week
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#1034 Kyio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:30 PM

Look back at one of the original concept screenshots for ARR, they had their eye on the ball since it's design :sun:

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#1035 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

If only you could have more than 1000 TP!

Also 7 million gil?  Holy shit!
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#1036 Kyio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

If only you could have more than 1000 TP!

Also 7 million gil?  Holy shit!

Haaaaxx

I have quite a bit of gil, but no idea how much I actually have. It is split between my 2 retainers when they sell stuff and I just never took money out. I always worked off what I made on Levequests and now the new ARR quests. Saving up for that FC housing :sun:
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#1037 Kyio

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

Why doesn't the armoury show my GC gear I just got this weekend? It shows I have them equipped, but my image isn't updated :(

Feels so good to hit 20 lancer and equip all that immortal flame gear.
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#1038 Air_Delivery

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:23 PM

I have like 350k right now. In 1.0 at one point i had 20Mil
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#1039 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:58 PM

I'm back up to 150k.  My relic shit cost me over 250k since I got it while it was early.  It's cheaper now, but it'd still run someone at least 200k.

And then you hit 50 and generate almost 0 new income.  The economy is gonna get veeeery interesting it we don't get new revenue generation sources soon.

And I don't mean "I can't get money," because I can get plenty on the AH, but that's just trading money between players.  With repairs at about 5k when my gear is half-damaged, a lot of gil is being sunk into NPCs, being destroyed obviously.  Which means no inflation, but which could potentially lead to hyperdeflation at some point, once the population balances out and everyone starts to near 50.
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#1040 Scape Zero

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:29 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

I'm back up to 150k.  My relic shit cost me over 250k since I got it while it was early.  It's cheaper now, but it'd still run someone at least 200k.

And then you hit 50 and generate almost 0 new income.  The economy is gonna get veeeery interesting it we don't get new revenue generation sources soon.

And I don't mean "I can't get money," because I can get plenty on the AH, but that's just trading money between players.  With repairs at about 5k when my gear is half-damaged, a lot of gil is being sunk into NPCs, being destroyed obviously.  Which means no inflation, but which could potentially lead to hyperdeflation at some point, once the population balances out and everyone starts to near 50.

I dont see why everyone brings this up.  0-75 in FFXI.  How much money did you make that wasnt player traded?  Maybe 1k?

FFXI had a fucking amazing economy (well, before the gil sellers ruined it, and then after SE removed all their gil).  Everyone brings in like hundreds of thousands of gil getting to 50 their first time.  There is a fuckload of money being brought into the game, and still tons and tons at 50.  Sure, you arent really going to see big spurts personally, but every fate gives like what?  A couple hundred gil, which is given to everyone that does the event, over and over and over again, in every zone of the world.  That is tons and tons of money being brought in a day, on the already insane amount of money new characters make just by doing quests and missions.

The only time money really ever came into the game in XI was NMs, and that was like 3k for only up to 18 people per kill, and its not exactly like you could spam NMs.  Far more money is coming into XIV than XI.

Edit: And maybe more is leaving, but not much.  Remember, every time you wanted to use a choco, you had to pay an NPC, and there was a point where chocos cost upwards of 5k.
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#1041 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 09 September 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I dont see why everyone brings this up.  0-75 in FFXI.  How much money did you make that wasnt player traded?  Maybe 1k?

FFXI didn't have me paying several percent of my maximum gil every couple of hours, gil that is NOT being replenished.  If you go fate farming, your armor still degrades.  Armor degrades whether you get hit or not, it just gets damaged over time in battles.  Most high level players do dungeons and primals, not fates.  Dungeons and primals cost money, they do not bring in money.  There is no fucking way to generate money, and money is going out STARTLINGLY rapidly.  "Hundreds of gil" is at MOST maybe 5% of a repair bill, 10% if it's a high end fate.  Of ONE REPAIR BILL.  That means you gotta do 10 fates to repair ONCE.  And by the time you do those 10 fates, you need to fucking repair anyway!

The money being brought in by doing the story is irrelevant, I already said, once the population evens out and the vast majority of subscribing players hit 50, overall server cash will decline at an extremely rapid rate.  I'm guessing it won't be long before we see items currently going for 10k going for maybe 500 gil, just people dumping off anything at all to get their repair costs covered.  Repairs are stupidly expensive in comparison to money generated.

Further, "do fates" is a shitty argument because fates are mindless garbage.  Grinding them sounds like fucking cutting my own wrists.
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#1042 DasBoot

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 05:49 PM

I rerolled as a Maruader and I'm having a ton more fun with the game this way. I finally did get to 30 and become a white mage on my conjurer, but doing so was about the most boring thing in the world to do. I figured when I became a white mage I may get a nice robe and staff that only white mages get, and maybe 1 or 2 new healing spells instantly, or something to do with healing, like a shield or something, but no, it couldn't have been more uneventful. I looked at the upcoming spells and regen was like at 36 or something, that was the next spell and no new offensive spells, and I had just had enough of that class. I really do think they dropped the ball with the conjurer/white mage class. Think of WoW how they handled a priest, holy still gave you tons of offensive and powerful spells, you weren't relegated to just 1 damage spell, that is very underpowered anyway. I say good riddance to that class for the time being, hopefully they change it in the future and make it more interesting, I'd rather shove ice picks into my ears than play any further with that class.

Now maruader on the other hand is a whole different beast. TONS of damage output abilties, as well as tons of tanking abilities. I've successfully tanked the first 3 or 4 dungeons in the game, but managing threat is difficult in this game, mainly because of idiotic dps. I mark 1 and 2 ALWAYS on every mob pack, and 9 times out of 10, the dps attack 2 first. I swear people can't even count to 2 properly, either that or they don't like being told what to do, even though what I'm doing only helps them get through the dungeon smoother and faster.

When I did get a good group, the dungeon went so smoothly it's ridiculous. It really shows the difference between people with common sense and people with none.

I have no regrets switcing to maruader, I'm soloing easily between cross class abilities that make the crit rate go up (the one the archer has) and other things like protect/etc, it's a soloing/leveling beast, but then I get into dutys fast to because I'm a tank, so it's nice.

As for not having money at 50, I don't really care about that personally, because I honestly have no intention of playing end game or beyond stuff. I'm just enjoying the story, the dungeons along the way, and the huge open leveling zones, once I get to 50 I'll probably just shelve the character and do a different class anyway.

#1043 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:02 PM

View PostDasBoot, on 09 September 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

I'm just enjoying the story, the dungeons along the way, and the huge open leveling zones, once I get to 50 I'll probably just shelve the character and do a different class anyway.

...the story goes all the way to 50, and then continues.  It doesn't just stop because you hit 50.    Technically, the end-game stuff IS story quests.
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#1044 Scape Zero

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

FFXI didn't have me paying several percent of my maximum gil every couple of hours, gil that is NOT being replenished.  If you go fate farming, your armor still degrades.  Armor degrades whether you get hit or not, it just gets damaged over time in battles.  Most high level players do dungeons and primals, not fates.  Dungeons and primals cost money, they do not bring in money.  There is no fucking way to generate money, and money is going out STARTLINGLY rapidly.  "Hundreds of gil" is at MOST maybe 5% of a repair bill, 10% if it's a high end fate.  Of ONE REPAIR BILL.  That means you gotta do 10 fates to repair ONCE.  And by the time you do those 10 fates, you need to fucking repair anyway!

The money being brought in by doing the story is irrelevant, I already said, once the population evens out and the vast majority of subscribing players hit 50, overall server cash will decline at an extremely rapid rate.  I'm guessing it won't be long before we see items currently going for 10k going for maybe 500 gil, just people dumping off anything at all to get their repair costs covered.  Repairs are stupidly expensive in comparison to money generated.

Further, "do fates" is a shitty argument because fates are mindless garbage.  Grinding them sounds like fucking cutting my own wrists.

I never said do FATEs as a solution.  Im saying FATEs are bringing in money.

The solution is to craft or gather, just like in XI.  Sure, you might be spending a lot of money after a few dungeons, but you also probably didnt buy your gear either.  As far as I know, all the best gear is free, unlike in XI where the best gear was basically exclusively AH gear.  So sure, you stagnant gil earned by spamming dungeons (actually, lose money), but in XI, thats money that would be going into getting gear.  Its the same thing.

There is a ton of money coming into the game.  Just because people expect to be rich while getting top tier gear, doesnt mean the system is broken.  It just means they need to pick up a craft.
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#1045 DasBoot

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

...the story goes all the way to 50, and then continues.  It doesn't just stop because you hit 50. Technically, the end-game stuff IS story quests.

Oh okay, well thats cool. Usually it ends at that point, but I'm glad it doesn't.

#1046 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:12 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 09 September 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

The solution is to craft or gather, just like in XI.

Crafting and gathering do not GENERATE new money!  They are exactly the same as the other classes, they rely on trading existing money.  There is NOT a ton of money being generated, each person who hits 50 generates about 200-300k gil.  If they spent absolutely nothing, nothing at all on ANYTHING except repairs, and if they only run content sparingly, that money will -all- be gone for that player in under a month of play, while they might ---MIGHT!--- have generated an additional 10k in that time, if they do a lot of fates/leves.

No one's expecting to be "rich," they're expecting to actually have money to repair their gear.  That's all I want.  To be able to repair without worrying about it.
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#1047 Scape Zero

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 06:23 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Crafting and gathering do not GENERATE new money!  They are exactly the same as the other classes, they rely on trading existing money.  There is NOT a ton of money being generated, each person who hits 50 generates about 200-300k gil.  If they spent absolutely nothing, nothing at all on ANYTHING except repairs, and if they only run content sparingly, that money will -all- be gone for that player in under a month of play, while they might ---MIGHT!--- have generated an additional 10k in that time, if they do a lot of fates/leves.

No one's expecting to be "rich," they're expecting to actually have money to repair their gear.  That's all I want.  To be able to repair without worrying about it.

So, what end game content generated money in FFXI?  What content at all generated money in XI?

You keep forgetting, XI had NO money generation.  It was a slow accumulation over years.  In this, there is a HUUUGGGEEEE accumulation instantly.  Simply leveling to 50 can generate about 400-500k into the economy if you always take Allaghan pieces.  In XI, pre-choco cost nerf, one Choco could cost literally more than a few years worth of gil accumulation.  No on complained about how doomed it was.  They just started crafting, and gathering, and getting their money from player trade.

Completing content didnt give you shit in XI.  No armor (outside of AF, which was mostly useless), no weapons, no money, no nothing.  If you wanted to gear your character, you had to enter player trade.  In XIV, everyone expects everything to be handed to them.  Get all your gear for free, even the best stuff, and then get it repaired for free.  This was never an issue in XI, but now, out of no where, it is in XIV.  People complained about the chocobos costing a fuckload, but no one ever claimed that the economy would be doomed because of them.

Money is coming in.  More money than ever came into XI.  More money that players are literally just sitting on.  There are countless leves, guildhests, dungeons, FATEs, etc that are generating countless amounts of money.  The economy isnt doomed.  Just because you cant both farm your top tier gear, and repair it while doing the same dungeon, doesnt change the fact that there is umpteen billions of gil coming in every day.
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#1048 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 09 September 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

So, what end game content generated money in FFXI?  What content at all generated money in XI?

I DIDN'T HAVE TO REPAIR MY GEAR 5 TIMES A DAY IN FFXI.  THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE.  PLEASE STOP IGNORING THIS.

Jesus H. Christ.  People are making a big deal out of this BECAUSE IT IS A BIG DEAL.  It isn't some imaginary "we want free shit!"

It is the fact that money flows from nothing!

Fuck!  Selling shit to NPCs in FFXI could make you enough money to do what needed to be done!  Nothing is worth anything from NPCs in this game!  High end gear sells for 71 gil.  Besides that, almost all the gear in the game could be worn, used for levels, and then resold for the exact same price on the auction house when you were done with it!

And no, you can't bring in 4-500k if you always take the pieces, you bring in 300k tops.  I always took the pieces.  Every single time.  Don't forget you have teleport costs, too!  Unless you want travel to take 30 minutes instead of 3 seconds.

So, there are roughly 4,800 people logged in to the server at any given time, that is the current max.

They make 300k tops in their entire leveling career.

300k x 4,800 = 1.4 billion gil.  If everyone online got to 50 and took nothing but tokens for gil.

That's for the ENTIRE LEVELING process.  Yet we get "umpteen" billions of gil every day somehow.  Yeah, no.

Let's do some more fun math!

Let's say all those 50s are very light players.  They only do a couple dungeons per day.  They only have to repair twice a day, for about half their gear damage each time.

Let's say 10k per day in repairs.

10k x 4800 = 48 million gil per day.

Let's see how long before all that gil is depleted!  (Also, remember, character creation is locked down and population stabilizes eventually!!)

1.4 billion / 48 million = 30.33 days until there is literally no money left.

But you can earn like 5k per day in leves and fates and shit if you grind for hours!  So it'll be 60 days!
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#1049 Scape Zero

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostXbob42, on 09 September 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

I DIDN'T HAVE TO REPAIR MY GEAR 5 TIMES A DAY IN FFXI.  THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE.  PLEASE STOP IGNORING THIS.

Jesus H. Christ.  People are making a big deal out of this BECAUSE IT IS A BIG DEAL.  It isn't some imaginary "we want free shit!"

It is the fact that money flows from nothing!

Fuck!  Selling shit to NPCs in FFXI could make you enough money to do what needed to be done!  Nothing is worth anything from NPCs in this game!  High end gear sells for 71 gil.  Besides that, almost all the gear in the game could be worn, used for levels, and then resold for the exact same price on the auction house when you were done with it!

And no, you can't bring in 4-500k if you always take the pieces, you bring in 300k tops.  I always took the pieces.  Every single time.  Don't forget you have teleport costs, too!  Unless you want travel to take 30 minutes instead of 3 seconds.

So, there are roughly 4,800 people logged in to the server at any given time, that is the current max.

They make 300k tops in their entire leveling career.

300k x 4,800 = 1.4 billion gil.  If everyone online got to 50 and took nothing but tokens for gil.

That's for the ENTIRE LEVELING process.  Yet we get "umpteen" billions of gil every day somehow.  Yeah, no.

Let's do some more fun math!

Let's say all those 50s are very light players.  They only do a couple dungeons per day.  They only have to repair twice a day, for about half their gear damage each time.

Let's say 10k per day in repairs.

10k x 4800 = 48 million gil per day.

Let's see how long before all that gil is depleted!  (Also, remember, character creation is locked down and population stabilizes eventually!!)

1.4 billion / 48 million = 30.33 days until there is literally no money left.

But you can earn like 5k per day in leves and fates and shit if you grind for hours!  So it'll be 60 days!

Broken math is broken.  y u haef to b mad, is jus gaym?

Anyways...  There isnt 4,800 people on the servers.  There is way more.  It has nothing to do with how much YOU as a person earn, but the server as a whole.  Protip, most people arent going to end up doing hardcore raiding.  Its the minority.  Also, FFXI had tons of gil sinks, off the top of my head, Dynamis.  Sure, the sinks arent as drastic, but the money being generated wasnt either.  Nothing gave you money outside of NMs.  Nothing.  As in...nothing.  There was no "only 300k" getting to 50.  There was nothing.  As in.....nothing.  Any item that sold decently to an NPC, got nerfed the second people started selling that item.  There was so little gil coming into this game, I would almost bet money that the ratio of in and out is far worse on XI.

Your personal income means nothing.  There ARE options to generate money, they just dont happen to be the content you are doing.  Crafting leves, when turning in HQ mats, for example.  They wont make you rich, but they do give you 200% bonus over base.  They will more than cover your costs.  This "10k a day" isnt accurate either.  Doing heavy endgame content in AF cost like 4k-5k for a full repair, which takes many dungeons and trail fights.  Do you honestly believe most people playing this will use anything over AF?  A couple of dungeons is like...maybe 1k a day?

I fully understand what you are saying, you are still missing the point.  Every time someone does a leve, a guildhest, a FATE, a dungeon, a whatever, it generates money.  Sure, you might not personally be generating enough money every single day to cover your top tier armor repair costs, but the rest of the world is.  Do you seriously think SE didnt think about the economy at all when doing this?  They paid such careful attention to the economy in XI, anything that started to become a threat to the balance, was nerfed.  We saw it with rusty subligars, their crafted version, those crawler berries (which, by the way, no one even abused), etc.  The money is there, just you wont generate it by doing endgame dungeons.  You know, just like in XI.  Sure, that FATE might only get you 300 gil, but there was 30 people just doing it.  That becomes +9,000 to the server.  Not a lot, but then you need to consider that is happening basically every time that FATE is available.  And the same thing for all the other FATEs on the map.  And the same for every other FATE in the world.  Sure some are more popular than others, but each FATE is generating thousands.  Then there is all the leves people are doing, which are generating hundreds or thousands per leve.  Its tons and tons and tons of small things bringing money into the server each and every second.  Just because you cant clear a dungeon and profit more than you cost to repair, doesnt mean the server is at a net loss.  You are thinking far too small scale.
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#1050 Xbob42

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostScape Zero, on 09 September 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

I fully understand what you are saying, you are still missing the point.  Every time someone does a leve, a guildhest, a FATE, a dungeon, a whatever, it generates money.

No, I don't think you do understand.  Money is going to eventually be deleted by repairs faster than it will be generated.  Populations level out, and everyone will only have a single character (for the most part) because you can level all classes on one character, meaning you don't get new quests to generate more cash, which means eventually, as the population levels out (there'll always be a trickle of new players down the line, but not enough to sustain an entire server) that the money being generated will be so pitifully small that people will do far less game content (Read: Making your players want to play your sub-based MMO less for fear of going broke is NOT good design.) and thus we have artificial stagnation.

People doing fates and leves and whatever, they generate gil, yes, but those people also have to repair, so the higher level they get the less gil they're generating proportionally.  Eventually they will either hit 50 and stop getting gil from quests (and 50s don't run around doing a bunch of leves and fates, and I pray to God they never will want to, both are awful awful fucking content) or they will cease playing and become inactive players.

The economy would be totally sustainable at this rate IF repairs were cheaper.  I know what YOU'RE saying, but what I'm arguing isn't that we need to generate a lot more gil, it's that to keep the economy afloat we just can't spend so much on repairs.  The "everyone's not a high end raider" excuse doesn't even really fly here because there are barely any high end raids.  You take this damage as a battle class no matter what you do.  You take LESS damage doing hard mode primal fights than just running around!  So the casual gets the worst bill!
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