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Remember that bakery who refused the same-sex couple? They're happy to do cakes celebrating divorce, stem-cell research, and paganism.

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#1 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:00 AM

http://www.advocate....ot-gay-weddings

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Oregon bakery Sweet Cakes by Melissa grabbed national headlines after the business owners refused to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian couple earlier this year because they claimed same-sex marriage conflicted with their religious beliefs.
However, two undercover reporters from Portland alternative weekly paper Willamette Week discovered the bakery operators were happy to bake goods for celebrations of other things conservatives traditionally scorn, including parties for divorce, a pagan solstice, and stem cell research.
When one of the reporters called and asked if the business could make two identical cakes to help a friend celebrate the grant she received for cloning human stem cells, a Sweet Cakes employee simply laughed and said, “It’ll be $25.99 each, so about $50 to start.”
A request for a cake to congratulate a friend on her divorce was also happily accepted, with a Sweet Cakes worker saying, “We can definitely do something like that.”
Sweet Cakes was even happy to take orders for cakes for a pagan summer solstice fete — complete with a green pentagram decoration — and celebrating babies born out of wedlock.
The Oregon Equality Act, which was passed in 2007, prohibits businesses in the state from discriminating based on sexual orientation. Yet Sweet Cakes owner Aaron Klein says his religion should exempt him from the state’s law. "I believe that marriage is a religious institution ordained by God," he told NBC News in February. However, while Oregon continues to investigate the situation, Sweet Cakes may find it harder to use religion as an excuse for discrimination now that Willamette Week has highlighted the hypocrisy of the bakery’s policies.

rut-roh
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#2 Hurdyb1

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:05 AM

Wow!
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#3 LionFranco

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:18 AM

:lol:

Sweet Cakes going out of business CONFIRMED!

Serves those sad sacks of shit right. Again, it wasnt about their "right to refuse service", this is just more clear proof that they discriminated against that couple based on their sexual orientation ONLY, and no other reason, which is against the law in most of the country. Fuck em!
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#4 Hurdyb1

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:22 AM

 LionFranco, on 31 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

:lol:

Sweet Cakes going out of business CONFIRMED!

Serves those sad sacks of shit right. Again, it wasnt about their "right to refuse service", this is just more clear proof that they discriminated against that couple based on their sexual orientation ONLY, and no other reason, which is against the law in most of the country. Fuck em!

Yup!
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#5 LionFranco

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

And i expect that the arguments that the naysayers put up will be weak at best. This is indefensible.
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#6 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

They don't believe in gay weddings, they are a private business, and can chose to serve who they please, so they didn't make a cake. Get the cake somewhere else, or learn to make your own. Silly to keep tabs on what a business is doing that one doesn't want to patron.
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#7 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

 LionFranco, on 31 May 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

:lol:

Sweet Cakes going out of business CONFIRMED!

Serves those sad sacks of shit right. Again, it wasnt about their "right to refuse service", this is just more clear proof that they discriminated against that couple based on their sexual orientation ONLY, and no other reason, which is against the law in most of the country. Fuck em!

Sadly it's not.  In Florida alone I can legally be fired from my job, denied housing, and have a whole host of other shit happen to me based solely on my sexual orientation.
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#8 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:41 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

They don't believe in gay weddings, they are a private business, and can chose to serve who they please, so they didn't make a cake. Get the cake somewhere else, or learn to make your own. Silly to keep tabs on what a business is doing that one doesn't want to patron.

So I'm assuming you're against the Civil Rights Act.
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#9 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:46 AM

 AtheisticOpinion, on 31 May 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

So I'm assuming you're against the Civil Rights Act.
Its a cake. Initially, what they should have said, is that we don't have time to make the cake, they could have could have dodged all this (though I'm sure the homosexual couple would have complained anyway). Its silly to keep tabs on them, don't give them your business, ask people close to you to do the same, move on with your life.
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#10 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

...they are a private business, and can chose to serve who they please...
No, that's not true.  They are in fact trying to claim an exception to the rule that says they are required to provide service.

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#11 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:48 AM

So you're not going to answer the question, ok then.
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#12 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:52 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

No, that's not true.  They are in fact trying to claim an exception to the rule that says they are required to provide service.
Yeah, I get that, which is why would have just said we don't have time, and left it alone at that.
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#13 LionFranco

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

Fuhrer D is a troll, and he is still trying to defend BLATANT DISCRIMINATION, which has just been proven by Sweet Cakes actions. Better just to ignore him, he will only contribute further ignorance.
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#14 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 09:56 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Yeah, I get that, which is why would have just said we don't have time, and left it alone at that.
So you advocate lying in order to abdicate your duties?  Is that what you are going to teach your children?

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#15 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:01 AM

 AtheisticOpinion, on 31 May 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

So you're not going to answer the question, ok then.
I'm all for civil rights from the government, but I'm not into telling a private business (don't know if they receive any public assistance or tax breaks) what they have to do. I guess next time I go somewhere that has a no shirt, no shoes, no socks, no service, I should take mine off, then complain that they discriminating against people that don't like to wear clothes. Plenty of times I have been refused service to a club, or lounge, or place of dining based on a label ("black") on my clothing, all those time what I had on was classier than what most of the people in the establishment were wearing. But hey, if they don't want my money, I wont try to give it to them, its not really a big deal. Its just how they feel, and honestly, I rather them wear it on their sleeve then keep it in their breast pocket.
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#16 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:07 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm all for civil rights from the government, but I'm not into telling a private business (don't know if they receive any public assistance or tax breaks) what they have to do. I guess next time I go somewhere that has a no shirt, no shoes, no socks, no service, I should take mine off, then complain that they discriminating against people that don't like to wear clothes. Plenty of times I have been refused service to a club, or lounge, or place of dining based on a label ("black") on my clothing, all those time what I had on was classier than what most of the people in the establishment were wearing. But hey, if they don't want my money, I wont try to give it to them, its not really a big deal. Its just how they feel, and honestly, I rather them wear it on their sleeve then keep it in their breast pocket.
And what happens when every place in your area all decide to refuse you service?  Are you going to live off the land?

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#17 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:08 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

So you advocate lying in order to abdicate your duties?  Is that what you are going to teach your children?
One, its not their duty to make cakes for everyone. Two, obvious from this case, people are a bit too sensitive for the truth. The truth for the cake business is that they don't believe in gay marriage. No harm, no foul, they didn't attack the person, or protest at the wedding, prevent them from buying a cake anywhere, nor go in their house and bother them. They just said, we don't want to make a cake for something we don't believe in. So since they apparently can't, just avoid the situation.
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#18 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:11 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

And what happens when every place in your area all decide to refuse you service?  Are you going to live off the land?
Seeing as that is unlikely to happen (like in the case of the couple getting a cake), its probably not something I will have to worry about. Though, if I needed to go somewhere and live off the land, my family has about 2000 acres in the south where I could be self sufficient; it is set up to do so, and we have been taught to do so.
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#19 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:14 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

So since they apparently can't, just avoid the situation.
So you are proposing that lying is acceptable to abdicate your duties.

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Though, if I needed to go somewhere and live off the land, my family has about 2000 acres in the south where I could be self sufficient; it is set up to do so, and we have been taught to do so.
And the other 37.9 million black people?  Do they all have 2000 acres in the south where they can be self sufficient and have been taught to do so?

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#20 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

So I'm going to put you down for being against Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination based on the multiple factors covered under the CRA in...

Quote

(2) any restaurant, cafeteria, lunchroom, lunch counter, soda fountain, or other facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including, but not limited to, any such facility located on the
premises of any retail establishment; or any gasoline station;

And just because other people are shitty human beings doesn't mean that you should perpetuate what makes them shitty human beings.
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#21 AtheisticOpinion

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Seeing as that is unlikely to happen (like in the case of the couple getting a cake), its probably not something I will have to worry about. Though, if I needed to go somewhere and live off the land, my family has about 2000 acres in the south where I could be self sufficient; it is set up to do so, and we have been taught to do so.

Go ask your grandparents if it was something they ever had to worry about.
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#22 LionFranco

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:21 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

Seeing as that is unlikely to happen (like in the case of the couple getting a cake), its probably not something I will have to worry about. Though, if I needed to go somewhere and live off the land, my family has about 2000 acres in the south where I could be self sufficient; it is set up to do so, and we have been taught to do so.

Fuhrer, maybe you are unaware of all of the facts from the original topic, but the owners of the company were ready and willing to make a cake for them, if they had been ANYTHING but gay, they would have made the cake. Once they found out the cake was for a gay wedding, THEN and ONLY THEN did they refuse to make it. There is no two ways about it. It was pure and complete discrimination in the most base sense of the term. And they used the excuse that it was against their religious beliefs. But yet this article proves that they dont have an issue going against their religious beliefs.

They are hypocritical scum sucking pieces of shit, and anyone who supports them is the same.
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#23 sblfilms

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:25 AM

I still am baffled by business owners that intentionally turn away money because of this weird idea that selling your product to a person indicates your unwavering support of that person.

I guess Mercedes loves African dictators as they all seem to bump around in them.

#24 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:27 AM

 AtheisticOpinion, on 31 May 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Go ask your grandparents if it was something they ever had to worry about.
They would say the same thing that I talk about all the time with people. If the black community focused more on separate but equal (equal is the more important part) and kept our money in our community, there wouldn't be two black communities, with the noisier, less successful one representing the whole in media, and mind share of the population.
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#25 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 10:36 AM

 LionFranco, on 31 May 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Fuhrer, maybe you are unaware of all of the facts from the original topic, but the owners of the company were ready and willing to make a cake for them, if they had been ANYTHING but gay, they would have made the cake. Once they found out the cake was for a gay wedding, THEN and ONLY THEN did they refuse to make it. There is no two ways about it. It was pure and complete discrimination in the most base sense of the term. And they used the excuse that it was against their religious beliefs. But yet this article proves that they dont have an issue going against their religious beliefs.

They are hypocritical scum sucking pieces of shit, and anyone who supports them is the same.
Had they started the cake? Or been paid a deposit? If they had, they should have finished it. If not, well like I said, they are a private business (if they get government support this doesn't apply), and I'm just not into telling a private business what they should do (regardless of who it is against, black, white, Asian, homosexual, jewish, ect...).
A fool ignores history and calls himself progressive.

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#26 LionFranco

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:00 AM

You are ignorant...pure and simple. So you wouldnt be upset if they wouldnt make a cake for you because they didnt like(just as an example) people with freckles? And you think shit like that is okay?

Perhaps if you run the business out of your home where it is completely private and you control the clientelle you get, then you can choose who to serve. But not in a storefront where anyone can walk in and ask for a cake, there is a certain obligation to provide service pending extenuating circumstances. Yes, you have the right to refuse service, but if a random person that has never been in the store walks in, and you point at that person and say 'I dont like you, and wont serve you, leave now', you are going to create some very ill will amongst your customers and the neighborhood.

This is essentially what these people did, except they went much further than that and made it very clear that they wouldnt serve them BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY!

Again, if you support this decision, you are an ignorant asshole who deserves any and all bad karma that this would send your way.
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#27 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

 LionFranco, on 31 May 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

You are ignorant...pure and simple. So you wouldnt be upset if they wouldnt make a cake for you because they didnt like(just as an example) people with freckles? And you think shit like that is okay?

Perhaps if you run the business out of your home where it is completely private and you control the clientelle you get, then you can choose who to serve. But not in a storefront where anyone can walk in and ask for a cake, there is a certain obligation to provide service pending extenuating circumstances. Yes, you have the right to refuse service, but if a random person that has never been in the store walks in, and you point at that person and say 'I dont like you, and wont serve you, leave now', you are going to create some very ill will amongst your customers and the neighborhood.

This is essentially what these people did, except they went much further than that and made it very clear that they wouldnt serve them BECAUSE THEY WERE GAY!

Again, if you support this decision, you are an ignorant asshole who deserves any and all bad karma that this would send your way.
They should receive the ill will (people not buying cakes from them) of people that don't support their position. The only position I am supporting is that of not telling a private business (again this means no public assistance) what to do.
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#28 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:08 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

The only position I am supporting is that of not telling a private business (again this means no public assistance) what to do.
Are you in favor of not telling a private business that they can't dump toxic waste wherever they want?

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#29 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

Are you in favor of not telling a private business that they can't dump toxic waste wherever they want?
Nope, because it has negative effects on public domain. But if they have their own land, can secure it so there is no public effect (vetted), by all means, dump away. Though, I would wish they could figure out a way to recycle said materials.
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#30 Captain Pickle

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

sooo much stoopid
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#31 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:26 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Nope, because it has negative effects on public domain. But if they have their own land, can secure it so there is no public effect (vetted), by all means, dump away. Though, I would wish they could figure out a way to recycle said materials.
So why doesn't this philosophy extend to other spheres?  If a private business has the capability of doing something that has negative effects on the public why shouldn't the government step in and prevent that?

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#32 Captain Pickle

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:27 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

So why doesn't this philosophy extend to other spheres?  If a private business has the capability of doing something that has negative effects on the public why shouldn't the government step in and prevent that?
I was going to say the same thing but you know this is going nowhere.
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#33 Fuhrer D

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:35 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

So why doesn't this philosophy extend to other spheres?  If a private business has the capability of doing something that has negative effects on the public why shouldn't the government step in and prevent that?
If they don't have a monopoly on a product (I wouldn't consider taste or flavor a monopoly), it is hard to view them not taking money from someone as negatively effecting the public in a manner in which the public can not protect themselves (not buying from them). In cases like this, the free market would take care of itself, people that support their position would buy from them, people that don't wouldn't. Their success or failure will be determined by which camp their customers base lies.
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#34 Anathema-

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:38 AM

 Fuhrer D, on 31 May 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

If they don't have a monopoly on a product, it is hard to view them not taking money from someone as negatively effecting the public in a manner in which the public can not protect themselves (not buying from them). In cases like this, the free market would take care of itself, people that support their position would buy from them, people that don't wouldn't. Their success or failure will be determined by which camp their customers base lies.
So how would you word the legislation to prevent monopolistic businesses or monopolistic aggregate effects from discrimination while still allowing individual non-monopolistic businesses to do whatever they want?

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#35 Fuhrer D

Fuhrer D
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Posted 31 May 2013 - 11:43 AM

 Anathema-, on 31 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

So how would you word the legislation to prevent monopolistic businesses or monopolistic aggregate effects from discrimination while still allowing individual non-monopolistic businesses to do whatever they want?
:lol:  Love the question. Wife is visiting me for lunch, so I wont be able to get to this right away. But I should be free this afternoon and be able to give you some basic bullet points. Cool?
A fool ignores history and calls himself progressive.

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it; yet those who do study history are doomed to stand by helplessly while everyone else repeats it.





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