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      Update on the single-device/browser login restriction issue some people are having.   04/04/2017

      4/7/2017 update: Now people who've been affected by this are saying that it went away on its own after about a week. So I dunno, if this would really hugely inconvenience you try to not log in on additional devices/browsers until the 4.2 update that's supposed to hopefully resolve this for good.   original announcement: For a long time now, D1P has been limited to three logins at a time; logging in on a fourth device or browser would log you out everywhere else. Unfortunately, multiple people have been reporting that they've started experiencing being limited to ONE login at a time.   The good news is, Invision Power Services (the company that makes our forum software) is aware of the issue and will be addressing it in version 4.2 of the software, which is the next big update. The bad news is, they announced about a month ago (the beginning of March 2017) that the update will be coming out in "mid 2017", so we probably have at least another couple of months to go before this is resolved.   In the meantime, I apologize to those affected for the inconvenience, and would suggest to everyone else to not log in to additional devices until this is resolved if this is something you don't want to have to have to deal with. I'm still not 100% sure on why it's not affecting everyone and why it didn't hit everyone affected at the same time, but the timing of when the reports of this started here mostly lines up with when I've seen reports of other sites having this issue starting, and I suspect that the problem is trickling in because of people happening to hit a fourth login that logs them out everywhere else, and then proceeding to be limited to one login at a time after that.
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      D1Pcast Episode 26: The Retro Show   04/19/2017

      It's time to have that talk with your kids. No not THAT talk, the talk about retro games and how much better things were back in our days! We have @Reputator join us and talk a bit about the Scorpio and some retro PC cards. [email protected] us about console retro gaming and how he just got his Super Mario USA. While @Jason tells us about the day his parents threw out all his retro consoles. A sad day for any gamer. So listen and give us your feed back about your retro gaming experience!    
kaberle

The D1P gym. (NSFW)

2,717 posts in this topic

On 3/25/2017 at 10:50 AM, kaberle said:

I'm not a huge believer in intra training nutrition or supplement use, at all, water is the only thing I swallow during my workout. 

As far as supplements. There are some interesting studies out there showing results with creatine, but none in advanced training populations that I am aware of. So it's a "it probably wont hurt for a cycle or two and it might help." And common wisdom and studies say to cycle so just follow one of the common routines for cycling creatine.

As far as bcaa, I am again meh on most supps, again some evidence showing it does help and certain bcaa are vitally important to mtor and mps, leucine etc, but those can also be gleaned from your diet. @GoldenTongue will have more specifics here than I. Again my advice is food is best but the supps can cover nutritional gaps, assuming you have enough to counteract for the bioavailability issue so you're not just pissing money away.

Creatine's been pretty tested extensively enough that it's difficult to argue against its efficacy, but with that said, it is entirely possible to get enough from diet that further supplementation isn't required (or beneficial).  There have been some studies which utilize more advanced training populations, although I have some issues with most of the ones I've read (or at least, the conclusions which were drawn by certain sources who attempted to analyze the study/ies), but what I have read indicates that there isn't any particular benefit to cycling, nor is there a considerable benefit if one's training intensity focuses in rep ranges below 8-10.  But aside from that, try taking 5mg per day for two weeks (keeping diet otherwise unaltered), and look for some mild water weight gain.  If you notice it, continue with the creatine.  If you do not, then there's a decent possibility that your diet is providing a satisfactory amount, relative to your energy expenditures.

 

Aside from that, the main items that I'd consider as being worthy of consideration in terms of improved training performance would include:

- Omega 3 EPA/DHA.

- BCAA's: Specifically, something which is heavy in Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine.

- Select micro's (namely, items that many who are training might be deficient in): Calcium, Vitamin D, Vitamin B, Zinc, Magnesium, Iron.

- Protein: Whey + Casein has been demonstrated in a number of studies to be (generally) superior to either taken separately.

- Maltodextrin.

 

That list is largely based upon my own experience (personal, and in working with others)...so consider it semi-broscience if you'd like.  Like you (kab), I'm a firm advocate in focusing in closely on establishing a solid basic diet first and foremost; then (and only then), consider supps to actually supplement one's protocols, not to supplant/replace them.  The Omega 3 and micro's have benefits when taken any time of day; BCAA's pre-workout, and (for me) a shake made up of egg whites (pasteurized) with whey/casein and maltodextrin peri-workout has been incredibly effective - surprisingly so, as I've long been skeptical of any marked difference in terms of what someone drinks in the pre-/peri-workout window.  But making that change has really helped me (along with a few friends I'm coaching) finish my workouts stonger and feel less prone to DOMS the next day, despite steady increases in volume and load.

 

I've also started taking Turmeric/Curcumin for the potential anti-inflammatory benefits, although I can't make a strong emprical argument for its effectiveness.

 

And in terms of NEZT's posts - my own belief is that it takes years (decades may be more appropriate) for the majority of people to reach their genetic potential.  Sure, steady linear progression may taper off within a year as one transitions out of novice training criteria, but that's still a far cry from someone approaching, much less hitting, the ceiling of what their genes allow.  

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On 4/3/2017 at 5:47 PM, GoldenTongue said:

Creatine's been pretty tested extensively enough that it's difficult to argue against its efficacy, but with that said, it is entirely possible to get enough from diet that further supplementation isn't required (or beneficial).  There have been some studies which utilize more advanced training populations, although I have some issues with most of the ones I've read (or at least, the conclusions which were drawn by certain sources who attempted to analyze the study/ies), but what I have read indicates that there isn't any particular benefit to cycling, nor is there a considerable benefit if one's training intensity focuses in rep ranges below 8-10.  But aside from that, try taking 5mg per day for two weeks (keeping diet otherwise unaltered), and look for some mild water weight gain.  If you notice it, continue with the creatine.  If you do not, then there's a decent possibility that your diet is providing a satisfactory amount, relative to your energy expenditures.

 

Aside from that, the main items that I'd consider as being worthy of consideration in terms of improved training performance would include:

- Omega 3 EPA/DHA.

- BCAA's: Specifically, something which is heavy in Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine.

- Select micro's (namely, items that many who are training might be deficient in): Calcium, Vitamin D, Vitamin B, Zinc, Magnesium, Iron.

- Protein: Whey + Casein has been demonstrated in a number of studies to be (generally) superior to either taken separately.

- Maltodextrin.

 

That list is largely based upon my own experience (personal, and in working with others)...so consider it semi-broscience if you'd like.  Like you (kab), I'm a firm advocate in focusing in closely on establishing a solid basic diet first and foremost; then (and only then), consider supps to actually supplement one's protocols, not to supplant/replace them.  The Omega 3 and micro's have benefits when taken any time of day; BCAA's pre-workout, and (for me) a shake made up of egg whites (pasteurized) with whey/casein and maltodextrin peri-workout has been incredibly effective - surprisingly so, as I've long been skeptical of any marked difference in terms of what someone drinks in the pre-/peri-workout window.  But making that change has really helped me (along with a few friends I'm coaching) finish my workouts stonger and feel less prone to DOMS the next day, despite steady increases in volume and load.

 

I've also started taking Turmeric/Curcumin for the potential anti-inflammatory benefits, although I can't make a strong emprical argument for its effectiveness.

 

And in terms of NEZT's posts - my own belief is that it takes years (decades may be more appropriate) for the majority of people to reach their genetic potential.  Sure, steady linear progression may taper off within a year as one transitions out of novice training criteria, but that's still a far cry from someone approaching, much less hitting, the ceiling of what their genes allow.  

How are you defining advanced athletes here?

 

a major issue with exercise sciences is they never have their testing groups as anything above low intermediate. When you're testing bench press increase and nobody in the group gets over 225 who cares? It's not extendable out to advanced populations.

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So I went to Lexington market today and got like 8 pounds of meat for 40 bucks.

 

winning 

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you guys just have a misunderstanding of what genetic potential means.

 

first of all, why would ingesting certain molecules like steroids not fall within the realm of genetic potential? your genome would still be coping with an exogenous substance, so maximum genetic output would entail something like: training with all the molecules your body needs for performance + using some kind of futuristic computerized workout equipment that trains you to an intensity precisely determined by your metabolic output and other parameters.

 

therefore it's very simple.

 

genetic limit = what your genes can accomplish under certain environmental conditions. We will never escape the environment in our tests of genetic limit. Both  @GoldenTongue @kaberle fail to understand this premise, what I'm saying is something simple:

 

given condition A: you have a full time job and can't dedicate 100% of your time to fitness

condition B: you eat healthy but don't use steroids/gear any other potentially harmful substance

condition C: you do a variety of rep ranges using tried and true free weight movements: clean, pressing from different angles,

squatting, rowing, etc.

 

If such a protocol is suddenly adopted in an otherwise unhealthy person's life, they will see most likely see quick(er) gains (barring illness). But like anything in life, they will absolutely diminish. People don't progress linearly; assuming you hold the conditions static you absolutely will see exponential decay.

 

If you guys want to be hard cock weight lifting bad asses and pretend like you aren't aging and your lifts are just going to go up forever, like i said... i'm honestly not against a positive outlook. who gives a shit.

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also, people respond differently to exercise. studies have shown that some people, for example, will not improve their vo2 max much regardless of training. No, it does not take years and years to discover this.

 

I'm not making excuses, I lift. I can raw deadlift in the low 400s @ 180 pounds. is that like super great or something? no, duh. just check the standards. but guess what? i've been there for the last 5 years (sloooow crawl up, diminishing), and i'm simply just not willing to invest exponentially more time to squeak into 500. who the fuck cares if you are healthy and look good?

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Just for grins, I googled genetic potential to see if the interwebs agrees with me

 

first result, not exactly scientific but funny enough i figured i'd mention it:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/

 

see the first chart? The "mcdonald model" . See how pounds of muscle decreases with years of training according to that model? 

 

If you guys accept this you might actually be able to more accurately optimize your routines 

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1 hour ago, NEZT said:

you guys just have a misunderstanding of what genetic potential means.

 

first of all, why would ingesting certain molecules like steroids not fall within the realm of genetic potential? your genome would still be coping with an exogenous substance, so maximum genetic output would entail something like: training with all the molecules your body needs for performance + using some kind of futuristic computerized workout equipment that trains you to an intensity precisely determined by your metabolic output and other parameters.

 

therefore it's very simple.

 

genetic limit = what your genes can accomplish under certain environmental conditions. We will never escape the environment in our tests of genetic limit. Both  @GoldenTongue @kaberle fail to understand this premise, what I'm saying is something simple:

 

given condition A: you have a full time job and can't dedicate 100% of your time to fitness

condition B: you eat healthy but don't use steroids/gear any other potentially harmful substance

condition C: you do a variety of rep ranges using tried and true free weight movements: clean, pressing from different angles,

squatting, rowing, etc.

 

If such a protocol is suddenly adopted in an otherwise unhealthy person's life, they will see most likely see quick(er) gains (barring illness). But like anything in life, they will absolutely diminish. People don't progress linearly; assuming you hold the conditions static you absolutely will see exponential decay.

 

If you guys want to be hard cock weight lifting bad asses and pretend like you aren't aging and your lifts are just going to go up forever, like i said... i'm honestly not against a positive outlook. who gives a shit.

No, you're altering definitions to fit an argument we're not even having.

You're conflating lifestyle with genes and the environment. Your genes do not determine if you have a sedentary lifestyle, barring some major congenital defects, your lifestyle does not determine the amount of endogenous testosterone, hgh etc levels; the origin and insertions of your muscles, the amount of myostatin present and how fast it is developed and so on. Your lifestyle is not at all affiliated with the environment in a traditional understanding of that concept. Environment relates to things like: nutrition present, smog, light and sound pollution, water, air etc. Not, "I work a 9-5 as a bank teller."

In the above example, you are not limited by your job, but by how you live your life. Again, train shitty, eat shitty, rest shitty, get shitty results.

Bodybuilding makes the point for genetic potential far clearer than I can. I am sure there was just a mass evolution of genetics over the last 50 years that took use from Arnold and Frank Zane to Ronnie Coleman and Phil Heath. Couldn't at all be associated with the substances associated and improvement in knowledge of exercise sciences and biology and why such tools as ffmi exist. Additionally, you can be a great basketball player, but good look making the NBA at 5'4. Genes are absoultely the most important aspect to athletics at higher levels. 

Your last sentence is utterly useless. But considering that the world record bench is 1000+ and I am only 430 I can clearly improve a bit. Progression stalls, but when that happens you alter parameters to achieve overload.

1 hour ago, NEZT said:

Just for grins, I googled genetic potential to see if the interwebs agrees with me

 

first result, not exactly scientific but funny enough i figured i'd mention it:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/

 

see the first chart? The "mcdonald model" . See how pounds of muscle decreases with years of training according to that model? 

 

If you guys accept this you might actually be able to more accurately optimize your routines 

 Are you really trying to critique me? lol. I've been lifting for years towards a variety of goals and am already in the 1% of the strength training population and bench more than you deadlift and squat. Any intermediate trainee knows plateaus happen and progress diminishes for a variety of reasons, newb gains do not continue in perpetuity and that's due to the fact most of those initial improvements or all in your CNS and motor neuron recruitment. After that it becomes progressively difficult and ou will never see those kinds of rapid gains again, unless you run an insanely high steroid cycle when your receptors are still virgins. 

Finally, you may not care but many of us do. I'm a bodybuilder, this is my life and my passion. You do you, and we will do us. While you many not understand nor care, to us, 1/16 of an inch on a muscle is big deal.

Further, I do not disagree with the overreaching premise of most people will not achieve high results because they lack the desire to reach it. As I said above, nobody really cares about a 1/16 of an inch, but to a bodybuilder, that's the difference between the stage and not. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do that or push that hard where you care if your arms of 19 or 18.75, it's probally a much easier life. But, that is not a factor of genetic limit but of lack of drive and desrire. I work a high stressed job for 12 hour shifts 3-4 days a week and i am constantly picking up extra shifts. I am not 100% dedicated to fitness as a result of that, but I do far more than 99% of the population does. If you want it, you'll find the time.

 @apoc81

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5 hours ago, kaberle said:

No, you're altering definitions to fit an argument we're not even having.

You're conflating lifestyle with genes and the environment. Your genes do not determine if you have a sedentary lifestyle, barring some major congenital defects, your lifestyle does not determine the amount of endogenous testosterone, hgh etc levels; the origin and insertions of your muscles, the amount of myostatin present and how fast it is developed and so on. Your lifestyle is not at all affiliated with the environment in a traditional understanding of that concept. Environment relates to things like: nutrition present, smog, light and sound pollution, water, air etc. Not, "I work a 9-5 as a bank teller."

In the above example, you are not limited by your job, but by how you live your life. Again, train shitty, eat shitty, rest shitty, get shitty results.

Bodybuilding makes the point for genetic potential far clearer than I can. I am sure there was just a mass evolution of genetics over the last 50 years that took use from Arnold and Frank Zane to Ronnie Coleman and Phil Heath. Couldn't at all be associated with the substances associated and improvement in knowledge of exercise sciences and biology and why such tools as ffmi exist. Additionally, you can be a great basketball player, but good look making the NBA at 5'4. Genes are absoultely the most important aspect to athletics at higher levels. 

Your last sentence is utterly useless. But considering that the world record bench is 1000+ and I am only 430 I can clearly improve a bit. Progression stalls, but when that happens you alter parameters to achieve overload.

 Are you really trying to critique me? lol. I've been lifting for years towards a variety of goals and am already in the 1% of the strength training population and bench more than you deadlift and squat. Any intermediate trainee knows plateaus happen and progress diminishes for a variety of reasons, newb gains do not continue in perpetuity and that's due to the fact most of those initial improvements or all in your CNS and motor neuron recruitment. After that it becomes progressively difficult and ou will never see those kinds of rapid gains again, unless you run an insanely high steroid cycle when your receptors are still virgins. 

Finally, you may not care but many of us do. I'm a bodybuilder, this is my life and my passion. You do you, and we will do us. While you many not understand nor care, to us, 1/16 of an inch on a muscle is big deal.

Further, I do not disagree with the overreaching premise of most people will not achieve high results because they lack the desire to reach it. As I said above, nobody really cares about a 1/16 of an inch, but to a bodybuilder, that's the difference between the stage and not. There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do that or push that hard where you care if your arms of 19 or 18.75, it's probally a much easier life. But, that is not a factor of genetic limit but of lack of drive and desrire. I work a high stressed job for 12 hour shifts 3-4 days a week and i am constantly picking up extra shifts. I am not 100% dedicated to fitness as a result of that, but I do far more than 99% of the population does. If you want it, you'll find the time.

 @apoc81

I'll actually answer this later. I have a wake to go to today. Funeral tomorrow. My life at the gym will never be the same. 

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@kaberle

There were a few sentences I mixed in that are just joking/trolling, I'm not actually trying to be offensive. :hug:

 

Who says you are more than your genome? Our genes determine a whole hell of a lot. Everything from the potency of our sperm to intricate neuronal networks in our brains. How you respond to certain chemical stimuli, exercise... physiological asymmetries, nervous system, immune system and on and on and on. 

 

That's all a really complex equation, but ultimately I'm fairly certain that our propensity to be good at things, fitness level, intelligence etc -- it all comes down to genomes. Most people have adaptations to exercise, sure. And yeah, they may continuously (for how long and at what diminishing rate) notice improvements in fitness levels.

 

Our genes play a role in every interaction our bodies physically have with the universe. There is always genetic feedback, deleterious or not. But ultimately we all end up geriatric. 

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I was all set for a two a day today, but my dentist decided my wisdom tooth needed to come out now. So unscheduled rest day.

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What's a good workout planner, book, or app?

 

I made a crude spreadsheet but I want something more convenient to keep track of my exercises, reps, weight, and sets.

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I may start a slight bulk.  I think I've put a little too much focus on getting ripped.

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5 hours ago, cusideabelincoln said:

What's a good workout planner, book, or app?

 

I made a crude spreadsheet but I want something more convenient to keep track of my exercises, reps, weight, and sets.

I just use a note in my iphone, and only track specific lifts for my PRs.

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Well @kaberle, those shoulder problems i've been having? I tore my (sp) Teres Minor ligament. Might require surgery. I'll know more next week, as I was referred to a surgeon. I don't know if it would be a big surgery or anything, but it's going to keep me out of the gym for the 2-3 weeks before surgery (doc said it'll need to be done ASAP), and probably 6-8 weeks after. It'll be my longest stretch out of the gym in 22 years. Thats all I needede on top of the other stuff going on in my life, as you know. 

 

On 4/13/2017 at 8:13 PM, cusideabelincoln said:

What's a good workout planner, book, or app?

 

I made a crude spreadsheet but I want something more convenient to keep track of my exercises, reps, weight, and sets.

 

I'm the same as kab, I use my phone for everything. Hell, i'm betting there are app's to keep track of it for you. 

 

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Actually being out of the gym might because good thing for you right now all things considered.

 

At least it's playoff time

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My back continues to get better, day to day just living pain is almost gone. I can tell I am still weak and fragile though, and on top of that I am having my first MS flare up in years right now with numbness in my extremities, oh joy. 

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Watching this guy pyramid up for overhead db press and he's now to the point of pushing the weight in the ground to the bench to 1/4 rep it. 

 

Fucking ego lifters.

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