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I recently rewatched The Dark Knight Trilogy.


SaysWho?

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1 minute ago, sexy_shapiro said:


You’re making assumptions about a good friend of mine that you’ve never met and know nothing about. You’re projecting here.

I think the truth is you posted some bullshit, got called out on it and went the "My Uncle work for Nintendo" defense. 

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8 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:


No he’s in the industry and he hears chatter that we don’t. Do you ask for hard evidence and proof every time one of your friends tells you a story about something at work?

 

I’m in no way trying to discredit Nolan’s work on the Joker. This is just what I’ve heard and I’ve always found it to be interesting information. I’m just passing along the tea here. Don’t shoot the messeneger.

For something like this , you damn right I would. Is what you saying possible , sure, but nothing corroborates what you said.

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3 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I think the truth is you posted some bullshit, got called out on it and went the "My Uncle work for Nintendo" defense. 


Okay, you’re attacking both the character and integrity of both me and my friend here. You’re allowed to take what I said with a grain of salt. I fully realize this is just hearsay, and there nothing wrong with passing it along. But you have crossed a line and I will stop responding to you. Have a good day.

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Just now, sexy_shapiro said:


Okay, you’re attacking both the character and integrity of both me and my friend here. You’re allowed to take what I said with a grain of salt. I fully realize this is just hearsay, and there nothing wrong with passing it along. But you have crossed a line and I will stop responding to you. Have a good day.

Here is your ball, dont forget to take it with you

 

 

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1 hour ago, sexy_shapiro said:


My good friend in the industry told me this so let’s not insinuate that he’s a liar.

 

Remember, public knowledge often differs from actual behind the scenes info when it comes to the industry. Sure, a decent amount of stuff is leaked to the media eventually, but a surprising amount never leaves certain circles.

 

I follow movie news, rumors, and factoids more than most, and I've never once heard anything of the sort with TDK. Given how famous the film is, there's a ton of behind the scenes information out there, and I've never seen anything even once ever been mentioned. I'm sorry, but I think your friend was mistaken, incorrect, and/or lying. 

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10 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I follow movie news, rumors, and factoids more than most, and I've never once heard anything of the sort with TDK. Given how famous the film is, there's a ton of behind the scenes information out there, and I've never seen anything even once ever been mentioned. I'm sorry, but I think your friend was mistaken, incorrect, and/or lying. 

 

Okay, now you’re personally attacking my friend. He happens to be my best friend since middle school and I’ve seen him work his ass off to get to where he is. I don’t pretend to know more about law than you do, so don’t pretend to know more about inner-industry tea and screenwriting than my friend. Stay in your lane.
 

You’re allowed to take the info with a grain of salt. I already said that I’m just passing along hearsay that I’ve heard from someone in the industry. I thought you guys would find it interesting, whether true or not, but instead you’re going after my friend.

 

I’ve been civil to you so far but when you question my best friend’s integrity, Imma pull off these mutherfuckin gloves and get real nasty real quick. Okurrrrr

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On 2/29/2020 at 2:56 PM, sexy_shapiro said:

Begins is the only movie of the trilogy where Gotham felt somewhat like Gotham. Sure, I wish it was even more stylized and a little closer to what Burton envisioned, but overall it was a step in the right direction. Gotham in the other two movies was basically Chicago.

 

I still will never forget the feeling of seeing The Dark Knight for the first time. There creeping sense of dread that the Joker could pop up at any minute and do pretty much anything. He was the embodiment of chaos. He didn’t play by the same rules that nearly every other villain did, which is what made him so captivating while terrifying.

 

But over the years with other rewatches, I’ve had to accept that he’s simply way more interesting and dynamic than any other character, which makes me just patiently wait in between his scene before he pops up again. Once he has his final scene and there are literally 20 more minutes to go, I’m tempted to just stop the movie there and call it a night. I’m not the hugest fan of how Christopher Nolan writes his characters, and what makes the Joker really stand out is that he had a team of like six other writers write for his scenes. That’s why he was so unpredictable from scene to scene, because different writers were handling each scene. It’s still overall a really good movie, but I have softened a bit on it since it’s initial release.

 

The Dark Knight Rises has way too many goofs from a filmmaker who is known for being keen on detail. Hell, there is a chase scene that begins in broad daylight but turns to night in a matter of minutes. It’s so weird. I think we’re about 5-10 years from a Nolan interview where he admits that his heart wasn’t in it.
 

My theory was always that Nolan initially didn’t want a sequel without Ledger, but the studio struck really wanted another so they struck a deal and gave him a blank check for Inception if he agreed to finish out the trilogy.

 

Around the time Joker started opening fire on the van with Harvey in it, I thought to myself, "This feels way different than any superhero movie I've seen." Much of it was structured differently, with the Joker continuing to push Gotham a little further into insanity, and that damned dissonant noise that played even before he appeared onscreen. Hell, even knowing Gordon is supposed to become commissioner in a Batman story, I thought they seriously killed him. It wasn't an off-screen "death," which usually happens when someone doesn't actually die, you saw him dead, most of the police were out of the loop and so it seemed legitimate that he took a bullet for the mayor, and my g/f thought the same thing after that scene.

 

And then within 10 minutes of being relieved that Gordon was still alive, Rachel dies. The whole thing was nuts. Seeing the disappointment on his face at the end as the ferries remained intact rules, and it's so earned.

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6 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said:

 

Okay, now you’re personally attacking my friend. He happens to be my best friend since middle school and I’ve seen him work his ass off to get to where he is. I don’t pretend to know more about law than you do, so don’t pretend to know more about inner-industry tea and screenwriting than my friend. Stay in your lane.
 

You’re allowed to take the info with a grain of salt. I already said that I’m just passing along hearsay that I’ve heard from someone in the industry. I thought you guys would find it interesting, whether true or not, but instead you’re going after my friend.

 

I’ve been civil to you so far but when you question my best friend’s integrity, Imma pull off these mutherfuckin gloves and get real nasty real quick. Okurrrrr

 

I'm not personally attacking him, I'm assessing the information and coming to the conclusion he is wrong. You're far too sensitive. I only have your word to take for his "expertise" and given it flies in the face of everything I've ever heard or read about TDK, yeah, I'm gonna question things. I said he could be mistaken or incorrect, not a liar, which is definitely possible and doesn't imply a question of integrity. If he's your best friend, just ask him to corroborate things and then post that information here, asking him how no one has ever reported this in any way, shape, or form. Nolan is aggressively individualistic since he's an auteur who both writes (or co-writes) and directs his own movies, so it's hard for me to fathom him allowing tons of uncredited rewriters onto his screenplay. This would be more negligent for me not to question it than it is for me to question it.

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Might it be that the Oscar winning acting is what leads to that feeling, more so than the writing? Maybe the guy is simply making an error in his assessment?

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"How Will Blockbusters credit all of those writers?"

 

Quote

As the Hollywood blockbuster model completes its shift from trilogies to a theoretically infinite series of mutually supporting installments, film franchises are increasingly importing the concept of a writers room from television to help bang out ideas for all the new “shared universes.” Transformers has one, as do Avatar, Star Wars, and Universal’s long-gestating monsters series. These rooms all work differently, but THR reports they’re facing the same big problem: How the heck do you credit all those writers?

It’s just not a human desire for recognition that makes writers want to see their names in the credits: Though each writer in the room is being paid for their efforts, the credits on the finished product determine their share of those sweet, sweet residuals. Current Writers Guild of America rules stipulate that a project can only be credited to three writers or writing teams — and each writing team can only have a maximum of three members. The “story by” credit, too, can only go out to two people. In the hopes of emulating the old adage about monkeys and typewriters, blockbuster writers rooms have as many as a dozen writers all pitching ideas. Some of them, like Transformers’ Andrew Barrer and Gabriel Ferrari, get hired to pen a separate script afterwards, but what happens to the other writers whose ideas get used? The WGA does have a waiver process to increase the number of writers allowed to be credited as a writing team, but that’s never been used for a film yet. Often, they’re just out of luck.

 

"How to Understand Screenwriting credits"

 

Quote

Onscreen screenwriting credits can be confusing for those that have yet to be involved in the negotiation and contract goings-on in Hollywood — and to those that haven’t taken time from their day to peruse through the thirty-one page WGA Screen Credits Manual. The confusion grows as you hear that many Hollywood studio movies throughout cinematic history have had upwards of dozens or more writers that had their hand on the script at one time or another. Yet in the end, only up to three individual screenwriters or writing teams are ever credited. The Wizard of Oz is rumored to have had up to or beyond seventeen different screenwriters (as well as several different directors) working towards a final script at different times through the development process. But only three are credited.

 

Even more interesting is the story behind the writing of what many consider to be arguably the most celebrated screenplay ever written — Casablanca. The first writers assigned to the script were twins Julius and Philip Epstein. They left the project to work on another film — against the wishes of Warner Brothers — while the other credited writer, Howard Koch, was assigned. He wrote a reported thirty to forty pages. Then the Epstein brothers returned a month later, and Koch’s work was allegedly not used. According to the reported Warner Brothers budget for the film, the Epsteins were paid $30,416 ($549,096 in today’s money) while Koch earned just $4,200 ($75,822). The uncredited Casey Robinson assisted with three weeks of rewrites, and there have been ongoing claims that others did as well.

 

Screenwriters like Aaron Sorkin, Steven Zaillian, Kevin Smith, the late Carrie Fisher, and even Quentin Tarantino (he touched up dialogue for Crimson Tide) have made a career of uncredited work on screenplays. Needless to say, onscreen credits don’t always represent the writing that has been done on any given produced film.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

 

Oh my God, every time someone tries to explain to me the WGA. Yes, I know how screenwriting credits work, and I'm still skeptical (none of this is aimed at skillz specifically). I appreciate the heads up but I've been obsessively following film and TV for decades - it would behoove me by now, given how often I mention and break down behind the scenes cast and crew, that I would understand something so basic. That doesn't mean I'm always right, but I would hope people know by now that I understand the basics. We're talking about Nolan here, who is precious over his own screenplays. 

 

I still find the story very hard to believe. :)

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14 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

For whatever it's worth, I had no idea that's how it worked :p

That's why I posted it because it seemed like there was a lot of misunderstanding as to how credits work in this topic. Two buddies of mine just won WGA arbitration to have sole credit of a screenplay they wrote despite the fact that The Director of the film and his writing partner (who was also the D.P.) did some rewrites and were demanding co-writer credit. They won arbitration against the Director and his guy which is kinda rare, but they made the case that 75% of the screenplay was THEIR original work and that they shouldn't have to share credit. The Arbiters at the WGA agreed.

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My favorite is The Dark Knight. Begins is a great flick as well, one I've seen several times by now and still really enjoy, but I've only seen Rises once and thought it was boring, depressing, aimless mess that did zero for me.

 

I'm not a comic book guy so don't know shit about these storylines outside of the films so maybe that's why, but Bane was so insanely lame and unintentionally funny, I still can't believe they followed up the absolute killer that was The Dark Knight with this wet rag.

 

Rises is to Dark Knight what Slayer's South of Heaven is to Reign in Blood. Ya blew your load on a masterpiece and realized later you still somehow had to make something else after.

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9 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

My favorite is The Dark Knight. Begins is a great flick as well, one I've seen several times by now and still really enjoy, but I've only seen Rises once and thought it was boring, depressing, aimless mess that did zero for me.

 

I'm not a comic book guy so don't know shit about these storylines outside of the films so maybe that's why, but Bane was so insanely lame and unintentionally funny, I still can't believe they followed up the absolute killer that was The Dark Knight with this wet rag.

 

Rises is to Dark Knight what Slayer's South of Heaven is to Reign in Blood. Ya blew your load on a masterpiece and realized later you still somehow had to make something else after.

 

Well, to be fair Nolan had to completely rework TDKR after Heath Ledger's death, since originally he was allegedly supposed to have a major role in it.

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7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Well, to be fair Nolan had to completely rework TDKR after Heath Ledger's death, since originally he was allegedly supposed to have a major role in it.

Definitely a shitty deck of cards to be dealt and not surprising then why it sucks so hard. 

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57 minutes ago, Bloodporne said:

Definitely a shitty deck of cards to be dealt and not surprising then why it sucks so hard. 

 

It would have been really cool to repeat a villain and explore it more, especially since Joker dying from a fall was ingrained in my head since the first movie, so seeing him get saved (and feel defeated by not dying) was a mind warp.

 

It was cool to see Scarecrow in all three, though.

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19 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I'm not personally attacking him, I'm assessing the information and coming to the conclusion he is wrong. You're far too sensitive. I only have your word to take for his "expertise" and given it flies in the face of everything I've ever heard or read about TDK, yeah, I'm gonna question things. I said he could be mistaken or incorrect, not a liar, which is definitely possible and doesn't imply a question of integrity. If he's your best friend, just ask him to corroborate things and then post that information here, asking him how no one has ever reported this in any way, shape, or form. Nolan is aggressively individualistic since he's an auteur who both writes (or co-writes) and directs his own movies, so it's hard for me to fathom him allowing tons of uncredited rewriters onto his screenplay. This would be more negligent for me not to question it than it is for me to question it.


Sorry for the heated post. I got some really bad news earlier that day and was unintentionally blowing off steam online. I know I am too sensitive, but you did say that my friend is possibly lying which still isn’t cool. You also said he overestimates himself. I did overreact,  but don’t pretend that I didn’t have a reason to be mad at you. The “you’re too sensitive” defense can oftentimes come from people who lack sensitivity and are unwilling to change that aspect about themself.

 

Anyways, this is just what my friend had heard, that writing for the Joker was a more collaborative process because Nolan wanted him to feel like a different entity from the rest of Gotham. The link I posted earlier in this thread even says that Nolan took a lot of notes and suggestions for the Joker compared to the other characters he writes.

 

As an amateur screenwriter myself I have always noticed how atypical the Joker is in comparison to his other characters.

 

Anyways, I only get to see him twice a year but when I do I’ll try to remember to bring it up again. Every time I see him he usually drops some interesting gossip, but it’s never the focus of our conversations.

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19 hours ago, sblfilms said:

Might it be that the Oscar winning acting is what leads to that feeling, more so than the writing? Maybe the guy is simply making an error in his assessment?


I’ve read the screenplay for the Dark Knight and I can totally see where he’s coming from!

 

Even if you don’t have an interest in screenwriting, I definitely recommend reading screenplays for your favorite movies because it can give you a new appreciation and understanding of them. It allows you to focus more on the writing without the flashier aspects of cinema.

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23 hours ago, SaysWho? said:

 

Around the time Joker started opening fire on the van with Harvey in it, I thought to myself, "This feels way different than any superhero movie I've seen." Much of it was structured differently, with the Joker continuing to push Gotham a little further into insanity, and that damned dissonant noise that played even before he appeared onscreen. Hell, even knowing Gordon is supposed to become commissioner in a Batman story, I thought they seriously killed him. It wasn't an off-screen "death," which usually happens when someone doesn't actually die, you saw him dead, most of the police were out of the loop and so it seemed legitimate that he took a bullet for the mayor, and my g/f thought the same thing after that scene.

 

And then within 10 minutes of being relieved that Gordon was still alive, Rachel dies. The whole thing was nuts. Seeing the disappointment on his face at the end as the ferries remained intact rules, and it's so earned.


Not only do I agree with you completely, but you are giving me flashbacks to that midnight screening. As much as I enjoy researching that movie, it will always feel like I’m chasing that high of watching it for that first time. My friend said that on the way home he kept feeling like the Joker was going to jump out in front of his car and stand there like he did with Batman haha.

 

And remember when you had to stay up till midnight if you wanted to see a movie as soon as it opened? It felt special the few times I did it. 7pm on the Thursday before just doesn’t feel the same. And that particular screening was special because TDK was released on my birthday! A group of my friends went with me to the opening night. As soon as it turned midnight they sang happy birthday to me, the the lights immediately dimmed after they finished singing, and then the first trailer start playing. Such a good memory. :cool:

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