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"Why I Pirate" - An Open Letter to Content Creators (Very, very, very long read inside)

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This is actually what some people are doing. Although those viruses are usually not there to harm their system but to spy it out in order to make money by getting their bank account and what not.

That risk seems pretty minimal and would be no more great than downloading anything off the interent unless there are other issues that again arise merely from it being illegal (like the rest of the risks). And as I said, the used market is probably worse because it is legal, but again, that isn't relevant when discussing the ethics of the behavior.

Don’t look at me, I’m not the one participating in that debate innocent0009whistle.gif

Just like most people don't think protecting their body / property is wrong.

Your point being? You seemed to suggest that my view is somehow contradictory, did you not? Or were you merely pointing out that I hold unconventional views? I think that is pretty obvious.

What is the last game you demoed, that you ended up purchasing? What was the last one you demoed, that you didn't? Why? Just trying to understand your point of view.

The last game I illegally downloaded (I’m not sure why you keep saying “demoed” as that is not the reason why I download them) but then purchased was Minecraft, I think. I’m not even sure why I downloaded it in the first place though. This was back when it was still cheap so I didn’t have much to lose anyway.

The last one I illegally downloaded but did not purchase was “The Darkness II”. As for the reason ... I didn’t like the fact that it came with DRM (Steam) or otherwise I would probably have bought it since the first one (which was console exclusive) looked pretty solid shrug.gif

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I agree with this. I think if you're pirating PC games or music, there's something seriously wrong with you, ethically and behaviorally, and you should probably seek help. I only buy maybe a couple of games every year for full price, the rest I wait until they are priced at a point that's worth it to me, there's really no excuse to pirate except on some of the games with really poorly-tested, draconian DRM procedures that can interfere with game play.

But when it comes to other forms of media, like console games and books and TV/Movies, there hasn't really been that break-out service like iTunes/Steam yet. Kindle and similar services are kind of there for books, and Netflix is more like spotify than itunes. And none of these other services have the pricing down the way that Steam has done. If you're lucky, you'll get an Amazon sale here or there for a console game, but prices tend to stay pretty high for a lot longer than they really ought to.

I think with books things like the kindle have helped some, although I admit the sales aren't there, but the accessibility is, and I can usually purchase stuff for a cheaper price and sometimes find a sale for a physical book. But yes I generally agree for games and music I can no longer see any reason to pirate.

I do not believe we have the same accessibility or sales for movies and tv. I feel there is no service that is adequate to provide what I demand, which is a steam-like service which has every movie/tv show ever made in a downloadable form with sales here and there. Netflix is limited in its streaming scope. The dvd selection is quite extensive but still lacks in certain areas and then the lag. The blu-ray selection is too small. I want full 1080p stuff I can buy whenever I want to. I don't want long delays. I realize we are long way from something like this, but it would be awesome. I don't think pirating tv or movies is right, but I can certainly understand it much more than I can people that pirate games when there is no reason whatsoever to do so.

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Steam does not have every game ever made either :thinking: Not even half of them, I’d reckon, considering how many old games they don’t sell.

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Steam does not have every game ever made either :thinking: Not even half of them, I’d reckon, considering how many old games they don’t sell.

Free market. Buy your games where available and add them to steam so you can access them in your convenient and organized game library. :P

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I don't know if publishers will ever get it that their business models need to change. We can keep pointing fingers but piracy will always exists. You can spend money on security, while also scaring off potential legit consumers or you can make a more attractive product where people will spend money on it (be it quality of the product or pricing). The book industry has changed with ebooks for the better. The music industry has changed in both digital and retail formats for the better. The movie industry has changed but only to shoot themselves in the foot.

The gaming industry refuses to do anything but attempt to punish consumers. Steam is a good distributer in that they try to get more sales by dropping prices; creating an appealing pricing point. However, Steam isn't the standard nor does every game want their prices dropped. I don't think sales operations for movies and games know what they are doing.

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Steam does not have every game ever made either :thinking: Not even half of them, I’d reckon, considering how many old games they don’t sell.

Steam has most games that will run on my OS, and what isn't there you can mostly get elsewhere. . Steam isn't perfect, but is pretty much as good as it gets when you combine it with other digital platforms and companies. There's no reason to pirate pc games, none. If you can't afford it then wait for the $5 sale 18 months from now and be thankful you get a chance to have stuff at prices so absurdly cheap.

Anyway I feel my post adequately explains the difference, and apparently I'm not the only one that feels that the tv/film industry is not adapting properly to the digital age.

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Well, I just wanted to point out the flaw in your comparison. I’m sure that if you combine Netflix’ sortiment “with other digital platforms and companies” it, too, will be as good as it gets ;)

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Well, I just wanted to point out the flaw in your comparison. I’m sure that if you combine Netflix’ sortiment “with other digital platforms and companies” it, too, will be as good as it gets ;)

How is that a flaw? If what I want to watch isn't on Netflix, I go to Hulu+. If it isn't on Hulu+, I check PSN. If its not on PSN, I look for a site that webcasts it for free (legally) like South Park Studios. If I can't find it after that, then it probably wasnt worth watching to begin with.

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Yes, I do work for a living (in fact exactly the aforementioned 40 hours a week). But that is a really shitty argument because developers get paid no matter what. A better analogy would be whether I’d invest into companies if I would arbitrarily lose lots of it (maybe because some dude embezzled a company’s money) ... which is what actually happens frequently in that industry. So yes, I probably would still do that.

I don’t get your post though. What is your point? That downloading other’s work without paying for it is a dick move? No shit, I am aware of that.

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Demut....do you work for a living?

Would you go to work for 40+ hours a week if they arbitrarily decided to not pay you when ever they felt like it?

That's a flawed and horrendously biased comparison.

What you're actually trying to make a comparison to is a job based on commissions, which is where you only get paid if someone buys something from you. Further, an even more apt comparison would be a VCR salesman. No one needs/wants VCRs anymore so your business dried up, so now you have to adapt. You might try to make some silly comparison that everyone stole all your VCRs, but the truth is Youtube popped up and kicked your ass, let alone DVDs. This is why iTunes is so wildly and uncontrollably popular. It adapted, it gave piracy competition, and it kicked ass.

PIracy is a permanent problem. The solution is the same as it always has been when it comes to software: Offer the best, most convenient experience at a fair price. Make it a hassle, and you lose support.

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But that is a really shitty argument because developers get paid no matter what

They do? Oh you mean the ones that are payroll'd by EA, Actilizzard, etc.

So when they get paid...no matter what...and then their studio gets shut down by EA because of poor sales...and they lose their job...wait...

I don’t get your post though. What is your point? That downloading other’s work without paying for it is a dick move? No shit, I am aware of that.

And yet you do it anyway.

What you're actually trying to make a comparison to is a job based on commissions, which is where you only get paid if someone buys something from you.

Except with piracy people get to use my product for free...

Further, an even more apt comparison would be a VCR salesman. No one needs/wants VCRs anymore so your business dried up, so now you have to adapt.

So nobody wants to play video games?

You might try to make some silly comparison that everyone stole all your VCRs, but the truth is Youtube popped up and kicked your ass, let alone DVDs. This is why iTunes is so wildly and uncontrollably popular. It adapted, it gave piracy competition, and it kicked ass.

The VCR got its assed kicked by new technology that offered superior audio, video, and longevity benefits. Selling software for a profit is not "out of date".

PIracy is a permanent problem. The solution is the same as it always has been when it comes to software: Offer the best, most convenient experience at a fair price. Make it a hassle, and you lose support.

Of course it will always be a problem. Just as are all crimes...but you don't stop enforcing the law of the land because a lot of people commit crimes.

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Piracy is a permanent problem. The solution is the same as it always has been when it comes to software: Offer the best, most convenient experience at a fair price. Make it a hassle, and you lose support.

This.

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Do you see the implementation of DRM declining, Kal-El814?

You could make things as easy, convenient and cheap as possible, but that won't stop Demut from continuing to be a dick.

Go back to the basically DRM-free days of yore (ca. pre-2006) and I’ll return to my previous purchasing habits. Not that hard or unreasonable, really. Should they, however, continue to attempt shoving down their dirty, unwashed DRM cock down my throat I’ll keep up my current one and only buy games without DRM shrug.gif

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Go back to the basically DRM-free days of yore (ca. pre-2006) and I’ll return to my previous purchase habits. Not that hard or unreasonable, really. Should they, however, continue to attempt shoving down their dirty, unwashed DRM cock down my throat I’ll keep up my current one and only buy games without DRM shrug.gif

Anti-Piracy methods have been used since the 80's. They're not going to stop any time soon and honestly, you should just quit your bitching because it's pretty much only UBI with dirty, dirty DRM these days. And please don't give me "Steam shoves it's store/ads in my face" because you can disable that or "I don't want my game tied to Steamworks" because that's a lame ass excuse. That's like saying you don't want to use PSN or XBL despite the fact that they make their respective gaming experiences more positive in nearly every currently imaginable facet.

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Do you see the implementation of DRM declining, Kal-El814?

Go back to the basically DRM-free days of yore (ca. pre-2006) and I’ll return to my previous purchasing habits. Not that hard or unreasonable, really. Should they, however, continue to attempt shoving down their dirty, unwashed DRM cock down my throat I’ll keep up my current one and only buy games without DRM shrug.gif

I don't think the DRM situation is nearly as bad as you're making it out to be though this is subjective. Again, though, the only reason your reaction to this CAN be piracy is that breaking DRM is free, easy and virtually without consequence. There are few other, practical situations in which your objection to a business practice could end up in you taking action to obtain the good or service you want without cost. A boycott of a publisher would ends up with one of the same results; them not getting your money. But then you wouldn't be able to play the games that you want to play. Which you've acknowledged, of course, but still.

And surely you're not unaware that your position is a point within the circular logic of, "we need DRM to prevent our product from being illegally downloaded / I'll stop illegally downloading when you remove DRM."

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Come on, you’re not stupid, are you? DRM is needed to prevent games from being illegally downloaded? Really? What the heck have you been smoking? At no point has that been their main purpose. They’ve been created to destroy the second-hand market. That’s all there is to it. The claim that they were introduce to combat illegal downloads is nothing but a lie and an excuse. Their ineffectiveness in that regard should make this obvious to anyone with even just half a brain. Yes, in some cases a side-effect has been the prevention of a Day-1 (or earlier) crack but this is by no means their purpose. Otherwise they’d be routinely removed afterwards like CDPR did it.

And please don't give me "Steam shoves it's store/ads in my face" because you can disable that or "I don't want my game tied to Steamworks" because that's a lame ass excuse. That's like saying you don't want to use PSN or XBL despite the fact that they make their respective gaming experiences more positive in nearly every currently imaginable facet.

As I’m sure I’ve already told you many times ... those improvements either don’t interest me or don’t even affect me. Not to mention the drawbacks. If you love Steam, fine, why not? I’d simply like to have the choice to not use it. I know, you tried to convince me that this would require a huuuuuuuuuge and increeeedibly unreasonable amount of extra work for developers and publishers alike but I couldn’t really see that. CDPR for instance seems to disagree as well. And if they can survive that additional effort without going belly-up in the effort I’m sure other big publishers and developers can do so, too ;) In the end the real reasons for their reluctance are probably the selfish ones I mentioned last week :]

Anti-Piracy methods have been used since the 80's.

You don’t say ... but “anti-Piracy methods” ≠ DRM, bro.

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Come on, you’re not stupid, are you? DRM is needed to prevent games from being illegally downloaded? Really? What the heck have you been smoking? At no point has that been their main purpose.

As I’m sure I’ve already told you many times ... those improvements either don’t interest me or don’t even affect me. Not to mention the drawbacks. If you love Steam, fine, why not? I’d simply like to have the choice to not use it. I know, you tried to convince me that this would require a huuuuuuuuuge and increeeedibly unreasonable amount of extra work for developers and publishers alike but I couldn’t really see that. CDPR for instance seems to disagree as well. And if they can survive that additional effort without going belly-up in the effort I’m sure other big publishers and developers can do so, too ;) In the end the real reasons for their reluctance are probably the selfish ones I mentioned last week :]

You don’t say ... but “anti-Piracy methods” ≠ DRM, bro.

DRM is an Anti-Piracy technology there for it falls under the classification of an Anti-Piracy tool. As a pirate, you should know this as common knowledge, but I guess pirates can be stupid too. Besides, if CDPR wholeheartedly agreed, why can you buy the Witcher and Witcher 2 on Steam? Why? Because Steam makes them an ass load of money.

http://store.steampo...d.com/app/20900

http://store.steampo...heck/app/20920/

And you're not selfish for taking what doesn't rightfully belong to you?

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I never denied that Steam makes developers lots of money. In fact, that is what I hinted at when I wrote that their true reasons are selfish ones (and not because of too much work). And, again (this is starting to get ridiculous), let me remind you that I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem with games being on Steam and Steam flourishing. I just want the option to opt out.

And no, read my post again, DRM is not meant to combat illegal downloads. That is bullshit and only someone extremely stupid would swallow that.

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Well, I just wanted to point out the flaw in your comparison. I’m sure that if you combine Netflix’ sortiment “with other digital platforms and companies” it, too, will be as good as it gets ;)

Bad choice of words on my part. I should have said "nearly perfect". I can hardly say the same for all the digital streaming/distribution platforms for tv/movies combined.

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And you feel that this isn't happening?

I'm not 100% sure what you are referring to, but are you asking if I feel that big media isn't offering the best, most convenient methods of obtaining and enjoying their products? If so, the answer is a resounding NO. While the big media companies have been fighting against the grain and spending money on grand court cases and frivolous lawsuits to try to stifle the progress of the internet, "hackers" have been out there creating some of the most feature-rich software available. Just look at projects like XBMC or MythTV, and compare those to buying DVDs/digital videos, your cable box or even using "progressive" internet companies like Netflix or Hulu. It's a joke.

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Digital rights management (DRM) is a class of access control technologies that are used by hardware manufacturers, publishers, copyright holders and individuals with the intent to limit the use of digital content and devices after sale. DRM is any technology that inhibits uses of digital content that are not desired or intended by the content provider.

And no, read my post again, DRM is not meant to combat illegal downloads. That is bullshit and only someone extremely stupid would swallow that.

So in other words...

tin-foil-hat.jpg

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That what isn't happening?

So Steam, Amazon, Origin, GreenManGaming, etc aren't happening? Last I checked retail wasn't making games dirt cheap and easily accessible near immediately after a game launched.

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Okay, I guess that means that you fall into the “extremely stupid” category, gotcha.

No, I fall into "I won't support developers who use draconian DRM methods and punish me as a gamer, nor will they receive any of my money until the DRM is removed or the game hits the $10 or less bargain bin." category

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I'm not 100% sure what you are referring to, but are you asking if I feel that big media isn't offering the best, most convenient methods of obtaining and enjoying their products? If so, the answer is a resounding NO. While the big media companies have been fighting against the grain and spending money on grand court cases and frivolous lawsuits to try to stifle the progress of the internet, "hackers" have been out there creating some of the most feature-rich software available. Just look at projects like XBMC or MythTV, and compare those to buying DVDs/digital videos, your cable box or even using "progressive" internet companies like Netflix or Hulu. It's a joke.

Steam.

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