Sony Horizon Forbidden West - Information Thread, update: Digital Foundry hands-on with PC version

[best3444]

So why does it run and look like dog shit on deck if it could run on PS4?

[AbsolutSurgen]

17 minutes ago, best3444 said:

So why does it run and look like dog shit on deck if it could run on PS4?

Is the Steam Deck not running H:FW comparable to the PS4?

[best3444]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Is the Steam Deck not running H:FW comparable to the PS4?

 

I never played it on ps4 but it was basically unplayable for me yesterday. Then I did a quick search and the consensus is it's basically not playable on deck. Stepee got it looking ok but nothing great. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

I never played it on ps4 but it was basically unplayable for me yesterday. Then I did a quick search and the consensus is it's basically not playable on deck. Stepee got it looking ok but nothing great. 

OK.  What I read was that it had performance hits while compiling shaders (which can be fixed if Valve creates a compiled shader pack).  I saw the recommendation that you need to turn off the dynamic resolution, because it lowers the resolution to unplayable levels when the shaders are compiling.  But, I haven't played it myself to see.

[best3444]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

OK.  What I read was that it had performance hits while compiling shaders (which can be fixed if Valve creates a compiled shader pack).  I saw the recommendation that you need to turn off the dynamic resolution, because it lowers the resolution to unplayable levels when the shaders are compiling.  But, I haven't played it myself to see.

 

Well I hope something is done because I want to play this on my deck at some point. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

@best3444 Alex talks about the SteamDeck version, and doesn't recommend it.  He speculates that part of the problem may be that this version only includes the PS5 assets, and not the PS4 ones.

[best3444]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

@best3444 Alex talks about the SteamDeck version, and doesn't recommend it.  He speculates that part of the problem may be that this version only includes the PS5 assets, and not the PS4 ones.

 

Thank you. Thankfully I got a refund on this. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

On 3/23/2024 at 4:32 PM, stepee said:

oh man yeah this is definitely back with the best looking games out now 

I've played it a bunch more, and while I think the "rasterization" portion of the game might be the best out there.  The lack of ray traced lighting/reflections is holding it back from looking as good as something like Alan Wake 2.

The lighting doesn't look "bad", but there is something that always looks a little "not right" to me.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I've played it a bunch more, and while I think the "rasterization" portion of the game might be the best out there.  The lack of ray traced lighting/reflections is holding it back from looking as good as something like Alan Wake 2.

The lighting doesn't look "bad", but there is something that always looks a little "not right" to me.

The lighting doesn’t seem as “natural”. Along with the higher saturation it makes the world look and feel like a video game world.  It also doesn’t have that natural “warmth” you can often get with ray tracing in day time lighting. The game looks very good and very pretty, but still like a video game world. 

[stepee]

I was able to get a near end of the game save from nexusmods that is essentially a straight story run up to when you get your sun wing. It’s perfect because it let me catch myself up on the story and also the mechanics and customize some gear before starting Burning Shores and also leaves open all the side quests, most of which I didn’t do on ps5. So I have a lot of new content with the stuff I did complete.

 

Sony realllly needs to let you transfer your save though. You can do it on a hacked ps4/ps5 so it’s definitely possible. Since hackers get to do it, that should the sign for Sony to let us legal purchasers who bought the damn game twice do it.

 

Seeing the full game now, thought not with the advanced cloud system yet, it really is wondrous on pc, RTGI be damned. Though holy shit would it be crazy if it had it. The material and asset quality is just so great and the general artwork and especially character models is better than say Avatar which otherwise smashes it on a tech level by having even more geometry, better lod, and RT.

 

I played the last base game mission on the deck native with my custom settings looking pretty good and it mostly holds up, all of the playable parts especially. Some far off shots of tons of characters and dino’s during cinemas brings it down as low as 11fps, but it’s just a few seconds then back to 30.

 

On deck if you tweek it enough it’s kinda neat that a handheld can play it for 2.5 hours with that level of geometry and detail still present. And the hdr does some heavy lifting. But the traversal stutter, especially when flying, is unfortunately distracting. Nobody should really play the game like that but it’s an interesting play in the way those Switch “impossible ports” are. Unlike Avatar it is playable, but not at all ideal. But good enough that I didn’t bother streaming it and finished it up native.

 

I decided to boot up my rog ally for the first time in months to see how this fares along with some other recent “too big for deck” or less than ideal on deck games to see how that ol boy is holding up. Would still be interested in an oled version of it this year if that happens. Though I’m reminded how damn much I prefer actually using the deck.

[AbsolutSurgen]

I'm convinced that KB/M is the only way to play this.  So much of the combat is focused on targetting specific components on the robots, that I wonder how anyone does this effectively with a controller?

I'm only about 5-8 hours into the game, and have only done a few missions in the "Forbidden West".  I opened it up, only to go back and do most of the Side Quests in Mainscrape.

I'm looking forward to the story really getting going, because the early part of the game is, IMHO, way too focused on how Aloy didn't say goodbye to people between the two games.

[best3444]

59 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm convinced that KB/M is the only way to play this.  So much of the combat is focused on targetting specific components on the robots, that I wonder how anyone does this effectively with a controller?

I'm only about 5-8 hours into the game, and have only done a few missions in the "Forbidden West".  I opened it up, only to go back and do most of the Side Quests in Mainscrape.

I'm looking forward to the story really getting going, because the early part of the game is, IMHO, way too focused on how Aloy didn't say goodbye to people between the two games.

 

Yea they are pretty hard on her for just leaving after the events of part 1, but I think that's a fair point to be made by everyone. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

19 minutes ago, best3444 said:

 

Yea they are pretty hard on her for just leaving after the events of part 1, but I think that's a fair point to be made by everyone. 

Both the leaving, and the decision for the NPCs to harp on it continually for the first 5 hours of the game is just not very interesting story telling to me.

[My guess is that this is very heavy handed foreshadowing for what happens latter in the game.]

[best3444]

12 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Both the leaving, and the decision for the NPCs to harp on it continually for the first 5 hours of the game is just not very interesting story telling to me.

[My guess is that this is very heavy handed foreshadowing for what happens latter in the game.]

 

I agree with you.  I thought it was an ok game but not better than the first. It's way too big for its own good and severally bloated. The ending and such with the technology behind it awesome though. It's worth a playthrough just for visuals alone.

 

I can't imagine how great it looks for you and master race fellows. 

[Keyser_Soze]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm convinced that KB/M is the only way to play this.  So much of the combat is focused on targetting specific components on the robots, that I wonder how anyone does this effectively with a controller?

 

So does this mean you never got a dualsense?

[AbsolutSurgen]

7 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

So does this mean you never got a dualsense?

Nope.  People convinced me it wasn't worth the $$$.

If I found one for a good price I may have; while Xbox controllers go on sale pretty frequently in Canada, the PS5 ones only seem to go on sale around Black Friday.

[stepee]

This runs very well on the rog ally. Looks super sharp and runs on medium settings without hitching so it looks fantastic. Definitely one of the most impressive handheld things I’ve seen..even if it would last like 45 minutes like that.

 

I couldn’t get the triggers to work for whatever reason but I assume you can fix that. I didn’t want to bother anymore because after hours of updating everything to current and other issues getting it to launch (you need to set gpu to auto and can’t have textures past medium or it crashes on game load) I just grew to love my oled deck all the more. I’ll put up with it when there’s an oled one tho.

[stepee]

Also I’m at Burning Shores now and it’s so freakin insane on my desktop. It may not be Avatar/AW2/CP77 but it’s at least top 10 if not rounding out that top 5. You gotta count the npc motion capture which is just the best there is still. With DLAA and 120fps that looks so crazy. 

 

I also really still love playing this game. Fights are so intense. I’m using the ps5 pulse buds for immersive sound which is nice too and seems to give good environmental audio. I guess I might as well hook up a dualsense today too. 

 

@AbsolutSurgen for taking down specific parts on controller you really need the focus ability so you can slow down time and then it’s ezpz

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 minutes ago, stepee said:

Also I’m at Burning Shores now and it’s so freakin insane on my desktop. It may not be Avatar/AW2/CP77 but it’s at least top 10 if not rounding out that top 5. You gotta count the npc motion capture which is just the best there is still. With DLAA and 120fps that looks so crazy. 

 

I also really still love playing this game. Fights are so intense. I’m using the ps5 pulse buds for immersive sound which is nice too and seems to give good environmental audio. I guess I might as well hook up a dualsense today too. 

 

@AbsolutSurgen for taking down specific parts on controller you really need the focus ability so you can slow down time and then it’s ezpz

Got it.  Do you mean concentration?

[stepee]

Just now, AbsolutSurgen said:

Got it.  Do you mean concentration?

 

Probably! Not playing right now but whatever the ability is where you press a button and time slows down. I’m doing that a lot, but also I love slow-mo like that so it’s more fun for me that way.

[best3444]

Jesus that sounds amazing stepee. Burning Shore looks so beautiful because of the environment used and the clouds on display. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, stepee said:

Also I’m at Burning Shores now and it’s so freakin insane on my desktop. It may not be Avatar/AW2/CP77 but it’s at least top 10 if not rounding out that top 5. You gotta count the npc motion capture which is just the best there is still. With DLAA and 120fps that looks so crazy. 

I think that's where I am at.  IMHO, with an implementation of RTXGI and RT Reflections it could be #1.

[Ghost_MH]

5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I'm convinced that KB/M is the only way to play this.  So much of the combat is focused on targetting specific components on the robots, that I wonder how anyone does this effectively with a controller?

I'm only about 5-8 hours into the game, and have only done a few missions in the "Forbidden West".  I opened it up, only to go back and do most of the Side Quests in Mainscrape.

I'm looking forward to the story really getting going, because the early part of the game is, IMHO, way too focused on how Aloy didn't say goodbye to people between the two games.

 

I thought about playing with mouse and keyboard, but this game really feels like a controller game. I'm playing with a Dual Sense. It does, unfortunately, need to be wired to get all the benefits the Sony controller offers, but I'm fine with that. Aiming is easy enough with motion controls being there to assist on the time tweak side of things. I'm having no problem taking out entire outposts with headshots from as far away as my sharpshot bow will let me.

[AbsolutSurgen]

9 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I thought about playing with mouse and keyboard, but this game really feels like a controller game. I'm playing with a Dual Sense. It does, unfortunately, need to be wired to get all the benefits the Sony controller offers, but I'm fine with that. Aiming is easy enough with motion controls being there to assist on the time tweak side of things. I'm having no problem taking out entire outposts with headshots from as far away as my sharpshot bow will let me.

I started with a controller, and about 30 minutes in switched over with KB/M.

I haven't used concentration at all.  (I'm using a Swiftpoint Z2, so most of my keyboard commands are mapped to buttons on the Mouse).

I haven't had too many boss fights yet.

But it feels "right", not having to go into slow motion.

Spoiler

Just the boss fight at the end of the tutorial section, and the "extended fight" when you first enter the Forbidden West.

 

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I started with a controller, and about 30 minutes in switched over with KB/M.

I haven't used concentration at all.  (I'm using a Swiftpoint Z2, so most of my keyboard commands are mapped to buttons on the Mouse).

I haven't had too many boss fights yet.

But it feels "right", not having to go into slow motion.

  Hide contents

Just the boss fight at the end of the tutorial section, and the "extended fight" when you first enter the Forbidden West.

 

 

I find the motion controls on the Dual Sense to be good enough I don't really need to rely on concentration to hit anything. I really only use it for the extra zoom on the instances where I literally can barely see the target.

 

I should note, I think the haptics in this game are just ok. Sometimes they're good, but it's not the best I've felt on a PC title. Like, I thought Seasons A Letter to the Future handled the trigger haptics a lot better.

[stepee]

I switched to dual sense for this and I’m definitely glad I did, feels great. I need to remember to connect it for supported games more often. I have a long usb-c cable that works well, though I could use maybe a 25’ instead of 20’ just so I have more slack to walk over the cord.

 

Im taking a side break from the Burning Shores itself and doing some side missions I didn’t do on my first play through to pad this out - it’s too pretty here to rush through in 10 hours.

[best3444]

Fuck I want this on my deck. I don't even no why lol. I always play this game s few hours in then quit. But I did beat it and it was cool technically. 

 

 

[stepee]

It runs a little better on the deck now and I got settings optimized pretty well but that hitching isn’t going to ever go away fully. I definitely would not recommend anyone actually play the full game that way unless they have no other option. 

 

If you want a new deck game get Sleeping Dogs DE it’s only like $6 and you thought it looked cool before

[best3444]

32 minutes ago, stepee said:

It runs a little better on the deck now and I got settings optimized pretty well but that hitching isn’t going to ever go away fully. I definitely would not recommend anyone actually play the full game that way unless they have no other option. 

 

If you want a new deck game get Sleeping Dogs DE it’s only like $6 and you thought it looked cool before

 

Thanks for the recommendation but I have enough to play. I just get on these weird tangents. 

[Ghost_MH]

How is the Dualsense such a shit controller? I have less than 100 hours on this thing and I'm already getting stick drift so bad, Forbidden West is unplayable. At least with the Switch Pro Controller and Joycons they're designed to be easy to repair, but this thing is here together with tabs and glue. At least with Nintendo's controllers, I didn't get any drift until 1000 hours in.

 

I have 80 hours on this controller between Seasons and Forbidden West and I don't even know how to get inside this thing non-destructively to give it some contact cleaner.

 

Also, seems the dead zone slider on the PC version of this game does nothing, so that's not very helpful.

[AbsolutSurgen]

KB and Mouse solves the problem. 

[Ghost_MH]

19 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

KB and Mouse solves the problem. 

 

Now I wish I would have started that way. However, I'm 60 hours into the game and it felt weird trying to change control schemes so far into the game. Guess I'm not playing any more Forbidden West until I find some Hall Effect joysticks I can toss into this thing. Also, I need to not be lazy about it because, unlike Nintendo, Sony decided to go all solder points on the sticks in the Dualsense. Nintendo's sticks are held in with screws as a single ribbon, no soldering required.

 

Well, just picked up these...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CNWYWCYN

...let's see how well they work. Reviews on YouTube seem pretty good. They are only $2 on AliExpress, but I would like them this week not sometime next month.

[Keyser_Soze]

26 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

Now I wish I would have started that way. However, I'm 60 hours into the game and it felt weird trying to change control schemes so far into the game. Guess I'm not playing any more Forbidden West until I find some Hall Effect joysticks I can toss into this thing. Also, I need to not be lazy about it because, unlike Nintendo, Sony decided to go all solder points on the sticks in the Dualsense. Nintendo's sticks are held in with screws as a single ribbon, no soldering required.

 

Obviously you just need to spend $200 on a dual sense edge so when the sticks die you can spend money to replace the sticks.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

18 hours ago, stepee said:

I switched to dual sense for this and I’m definitely glad I did, feels great

I started playing this on a Dual Sense and I am not entirely sold on the experience. I dunno, but the way everyone described the haptics and adaptive triggers I expected more. More resistance in the triggers and polished and even sense of feedback around the whole controller. Whenever I step into tall grass it feels like the vibration is deep in the controller. Like a mexican jumping bean in a tin can. So the translation to my hands feels clumsy. It is more granular than standard vibration, I’ll give them that, but it hardly feels transformative. At times it feels more distracting. I don’t know but it feels weirdly selective on what gets a sensation of feedback. As though decisions were made arbitrarily to be places where haptic feedback happen. 
 

maybe part of it is I am also getting accustomed to the shape of the controller. Due to the shape of the triggers and location of the left stick the controller feels to sit differently in my hand compared to an Xbox or Switch Pro controller. 
 

11 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

KB and Mouse solves the problem. 

I feel like I could beat the game and never feel as comfortable with KB and Mouse as I do with a controller. Even a Dual Sense. It’s mostly the keybinds and it not feeling second nature. I fumble around for anything that isn’t WASD and Spacebar. And even then it feels kind of clunky to me. Last time I tried KB and M was playing Lethal Company and it felt like one of the hardest to control games I’d played since PSOne tank controls. lol 

[AbsolutSurgen]

3 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I started playing this on a Dual Sense and I am not entirely sold on the experience. I dunno, but the way everyone described the haptics and adaptive triggers I expected more. More resistance in the triggers and polished and even sense of feedback around the whole controller. Whenever I step into tall grass it feels like the vibration is deep in the controller. Like a mexican jumping bean in a tin can. So the translation to my hands feels clumsy. It is more granular than standard vibration, I’ll give them that, but it hardly feels transformative. At times it feels more distracting. I don’t know but it feels weirdly selective on what gets a sensation of feedback. As though decisions were made arbitrarily to be places where haptic feedback happen. 
 

maybe part of it is I am also getting accustomed to the shape of the controller. Due to the shape of the triggers and location of the left stick the controller feels to sit differently in my hand compared to an Xbox or Switch Pro controller. 
 

I feel like I could beat the game and never feel as comfortable with KB and Mouse as I do with a controller. Even a Dual Sense. It’s mostly the keybinds and it not feeling second nature. I fumble around for anything that isn’t WASD and Spacebar. And even then it feels kind of clunky to me. Last time I tried KB and M was playing Lethal Company and it felt like one of the hardest to control games I’d played since PSOne tank controls. lol 

I have Focus, heavy attack, use item, interact, heal, and switching between items all mapped to buttons on my mouse.  I only use WASD, space, left control for movement on the keyboard -- and I go into the map/menus with the keyboard.

Being able to toggle weapons with the scroll wheel is huge in this game.