Microsoft Jason Schreier: 343 Industries Is All But Starting From Scratch with Halo

[cusideabelincoln]

What if they made a huge multiplayer map out of the ring planet and throughout the match the ring gets smaller!

 

*has not played a Halo game since the original.

[Mr.Vic20]

5 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Wasn't it the opposite? Like main poc protagonist falling into black stereotypes, getting arrested, etc?

Most people decided based on the demo which wasn't too far off from the actual release.

Its a zero to hero story and people did not give it a chance, is a shame. Also, read the Steam comments, its an absolute shit show of misogyny and racism. Ugly stuff.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

42 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Wasn't it the opposite? Like main poc protagonist falling into black stereotypes, getting arrested, etc?

Most people decided based on the demo which wasn't too far off from the actual release.

That’s who I thought hated it too. 

[Keyser_Soze]

36 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Its a zero to hero story and people did not give it a chance, is a shame. Also, read the Steam comments, its an absolute shit show of misogyny and racism. Ugly stuff.  

 

I'm sure both things can be true, some things are just amplified by racists, like the Resident Evil show, but I do think there were legitimate complaints.

 

Personally for me I had never found the main character appealing from the first time they showed a trailer and the dialogue was horrible and it continued to be that way. I'm sure it's a pretty game and fun to shoot magic rocks at people but when the writing doesn't seem to be that great it's a big ask to get into it especially for $70. Open world games are a dime a dozen these days and this one didn't do much for me.

It doesn't help Hi-Fi Rush came along at $30 and ended up doing everything way better in terms of the writing and attitude and heck even representation of their characters.

[Mr.Vic20]

19 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I'm sure both things can be true, some things are just amplified by racists, like the Resident Evil show, but I do think there were legitimate complaints.

 

Personally for me I had never found the main character appealing from the first time they showed a trailer and the dialogue was horrible and it continued to be that way. I'm sure it's a pretty game and fun to shoot magic rocks at people but when the writing doesn't seem to be that great it's a big ask to get into it especially for $70. Open world games are a dime a dozen these days and this one didn't do much for me.

It doesn't help Hi-Fi Rush came along at $30 and ended up doing everything way better in terms of the writing and attitude and heck even representation of their characters.

I get that the dialog is bad, I just don't see that it matches the negativity. Plenty (most) of games have cringe dialog and yet I feel like a confluence  of different social interests from "she's not the black female role model we wanted" to "oh look a black girl, look at this woke shit" have done this gam a disproportionate disservice. If the lead had been a buzz cut white male, I honestly believe the scores and the commentaries would have been more generous. I've played the whole game and I can say, its standard video game shlock. Its not, in fact, terrible, nor is it good. Basically what I'm saying is, too many differing agendas paint this game for their respective purposes rather than scoring the game for what it actually is, a fairly average action RPG by a once great RPG house. This, coupled with a laughably bad price point has given many people the ability to broad brush this game, and I think many are missing the mark on their uninformed assessment. So you know, the internet... 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Its a zero to hero story and people did not give it a chance, is a shame. Also, read the Steam comments, its an absolute shit show of misogyny and racism. Ugly stuff.  

I feel like I am contributing to derailing this topic now here, but I was under the impression that a significant issue some were taking was the stereotypical “black, therefore surrounded by gangs and crime and in trouble with the police” way the character was introduced. As though that’s the only hardships and character flaws a young black person can have that audiences will find believable, relatable, acceptable. Perpetuating the stereotype made worse by the fact the writers were all middle class white people. 
 

I thought that was the issue people had. Aside from the racists that hate when a main character is a person of color. 

[Mr.Vic20]

1 minute ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I feel like I am contributing to derailing this topic now here, but I was under the impression that a significant issue some were taking was the stereotypical “black, therefore surrounded by gangs and crime and in trouble with the police” way the character was introduced. As though that’s the only hardships and character flaws a young black person can have that audiences will find believable, relatable, acceptable. Perpetuating the stereotype made worse by the fact the writers were all middle class white people. 
 

I thought that was the issue people had. Aside from the racists that hate when a main character is a person of color. 

Some people raised this concern, it was one of the opinion pieces served up, it also lasts all of 10 narrative minutes and is a really minor plot point in the larger story. I'm not saying its a good thing, I'm saying people who hold that this game sells systemic racism due to ignorance, lazy writing, etc clearly did not play the whole game. They took the first 10 minutes and made their social commentary and moved on.  

[Keyser_Soze]

7 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Some people raised this concern, it was one of the opinion pieces served up, it also lasts all of 10 narrative minutes and is a really minor plot point in the larger story. I'm not saying its a good thing, I'm saying people who hold that this game sells systemic racism due to ignorance, lazy writing, etc clearly did not play the whole game. They took the first 10 minutes and made their social commentary and moved on.  

 

Well it's not just that 10 minutes, she gets arrested again in fantasy world. 

[Mr.Vic20]

6 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

Well it's not just that 10 minutes, she gets arrested again in fantasy world. 

 Most "outsiders" in most people out of time and place stories get the "the demon" treatment upon arriving or shortly there after! again, take the whole story and make the main character a white dude and it still works and would be just as average as a hundred other games. What isn't average is the scrutiny of this game by a wide range of people who have not played through it. 

 

Edit: also, happy to debate this endlessly, but any additional comments I think we should start up a new thread. I suggest it should be called "people also have an agenda other than what is flowing their lips or finger tips..." 

[AbsolutSurgen]

30 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Some people raised this concern, it was one of the opinion pieces served up, it also lasts all of 10 narrative minutes and is a really minor plot point in the larger story. I'm not saying its a good thing, I'm saying people who hold that this game sells systemic racism due to ignorance, lazy writing, etc clearly did not play the whole game. They took the first 10 minutes and made their social commentary and moved on.  

It's much easier to yell expletives at content you haven't consumed than to actually experience it and understand the context.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Back to Halo; I would say I’m on board with a reboot, but with recent game stories and the Halo Tv show, I’m just not sure 343 can shepherd a retelling of the earlier source material.
 

maybe some really like the lore from Halo 4 to the present, but I’m just not as big a fan of

bringing the forerunners back and their jealousy of ancient humans.
 

Could just be me, but I liked the relatively more intimate stories of ODST and Reach campaigns. I don’t feel Halo’s story had to keep upping the stakes and inventing bigger and badder enemies. 
 

So I don’t know if this “start from scratch” or having other studios work on Halo games will work if the same people who have been creatively in charge of the Halo stories are still in charge. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

The last "hugely successful" Halo game was more than 15 years ago -- and it has been on a downward spiral since.

 

Given the development team that made that game has gone on to bigger and better things (i.e. Destiny), is there any reason to believe 343 should continue with Halo?  Or try and create something new?

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

At the time of the deal to allow Bungie to leave and the formation of 343 Halo was one of the biggest IPs in entertainment. So it made sense to have a studio that’s sole job was handling the Halo IP. Halo is NOT that any more. It’s been fumble after fumble after fumble. 
 

I don’t see why 343 needs to be in charge of Halo at all. Maybe being pigeonholed into the one franchise is too creatively suffocating for them. Like Bungie before then they can’t really bring their ideas to light if it has to fit into the Halo universe and look and feel like a Halo game. 
 

so yeah, maybe allowing them to create a new IP would be good for them. Free them from the expectations of an existing franchise. 

[DarkStar189]

48 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

so yeah, maybe allowing them to create a new IP would be good for them. Free them from the expectations of an existing franchise. 

For me Halo was at it's biggest during the heyday of Xbox Live with Halo 2 and 3. Every Halo that has come after has gradually had more and more competition in the shooter genre hoping to grab a players time.  If all the years and work they put into Infinite still didn't cut it, I feel it's definitely time to move on. I don't know if it's a 343 dev problem, or a Microsoft problem.  They have a big recognizable name they want to make money on but the games and show doesn't seem to be hitting the marks for them.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

That’s what I’m saying. It was after Halo 3 that it was announced Bungie was leaving and we were getting 2 more games on their way out. Halo 3 was huge and so many wanted a piece of the Halo IP. So a studio 100% dedicated to that IP made sense. Not so much today. They can make another game and either let somebody else make a Halo game, or just take a cycle off. Do something new and then go back to Halo. 
 

But I don’t trust 343 can ensure a good Halo story. Whether via reboot or continuation. 

[imthesoldier]

3 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The last "hugely successful" Halo game was more than 15 years ago -- and it has been on a downward spiral since.

 

Given the development team that made that game has gone on to bigger and better things (i.e. Destiny), is there any reason to believe 343 should continue with Halo?  Or try and create something new?

 

I think two things should happen: 1) 343 Industries being done with the Halo Franchise, and should look into developing something new, and 2) Give Halo to a different developer, say Obsidian, or Rare for example (You can name others for sure within the Xbox Game Studios group). There are other developers out there, I'm sure talented ones at that, who could do wonders for a new Halo game. 

[Bacon]

12 hours ago, BloodyHell said:

But Halo Infinite plays like Halo.

No.

[silentbob]

Halo Infinite I think is the best they have put out in a long time. Still some melee issues in multiplayer, but it’s fun to play. I think they are just too slow to release new maps that would have kept the multiplayer going a little stronger. The grapple hook is also the best thing they have added to the game since the bubble shield. I think if they had Forge working from the get go at the game launch, numbers would still be huge. The things people have created with the tools provided have been pretty fucking amazing and should head hunt some of these guys for future ventures. I was also hearing rumblings that part of the Activision acquisition was to possible hand off the series to one of those teams.  

[Paperclyp]

I have a lot of affinity for Halo and could certainly be brought back to it if someone made one with that cache' they used to bring. I actually don't think 343 has done a terrible job, but they've mostly treaded water and the story route they went is just really uninspired. I had no desire to find out what happened in the plot post Halo 4. Thought they had something with Infinite's multiplayer, but it just didn't have that extra oomph to keep me going. Which, to be fair, it's rare any shooter does for me anymore. The last shooter I really went all-in on and was truly hooked on was PUBG. 

 

And to be fair to 343, it's not like the Bungie games were stalwarts of storytelling. Hell, I couldn't tell WTF was going on for the most part. But there was enough there, and it was fresh relatively speaking. To continue that line of plot was probably one of the worst things they could have done, but I imagine it probably wasn't their decision. 

[TwinIon]

On 2/1/2023 at 6:28 AM, AbsolutSurgen said:

The last "hugely successful" Halo game was more than 15 years ago -- and it has been on a downward spiral since.

 

Given the development team that made that game has gone on to bigger and better things (i.e. Destiny), is there any reason to believe 343 should continue with Halo?  Or try and create something new?

I didn't keep playing the multiplayer, but I think Infinite shows that 343 can make a good Halo game. Sure, the story was a reset in many ways and it wasn't entirely faithful to all the typical Halo gameplay elements, but I thought that the game was really fun to play and showed they understood how they could evolve Halo into a modern game.

 

Where it seems that they've struggled is in organization and ability to consistently create content. Infinite itself was so long in development, delayed to miss the launch of the new console, and took nearly a year just to ship features expected at launch. They apparently haven't been working on any new single player content, and yet they still haven't managed to put out enough content to make the multiplayer a top tier "live service" game as was expected.

 

So yeah, I think there are people at 343 that know how to make good Halo games, but there are clearly organizational issues that are preventing them from delivering content consistently and on time.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:07 AM, cusideabelincoln said:

What if they made a huge multiplayer map out of the ring planet and throughout the match the ring gets smaller!

 

*has not played a Halo game since the original.

 

That'a what the project known as "Tatanka" supposedly is.

[BloodyHell]

On 2/1/2023 at 7:00 PM, Bacon said:

No.

Yes.

[Bacon]

7 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Yes.

Does Halo 3 have sprint and a grappling hook and hold trigger to ADS?

[Paperclyp]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

Does Halo 3 have sprint and a grappling hook and hold trigger to ADS?

Infinite plays awesome and certainly feels like halo to me. If you want the gameplay to stay exactly the same we’ve got a console…err… game for you. 
 

One of the things that killed halo for me was the demise of a true big team battle mode. It always seemed hamstrung in some way after reach. 

[Bacon]

2 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

If you want the gameplay to stay exactly the same we’ve got a console…err… game for you. 

???

[Paperclyp]

2 minutes ago, Bacon said:

???

Someone will get it and that’s enough for me. 

[Bacon]

3 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Someone will get it and that’s enough for me. 

OK. I thought this was going to be some ignorant shit like "jUsT pLaY hAlO 3!11!!1!!11!!"

[Keyser_Soze]

3 minutes ago, Paperclyp said:

Someone will get it and that’s enough for me. 

 

[Bacon]

Oh, so it was that dumb shit

[AbsolutSurgen]

The hate that some Xbots have for the guy that wanted consoles to be online baffles me.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The hate that some Xbots have for the guy that wanted consoles to be online baffles me.

He didn’t sell it well, and a lot of people are almost violently opposed to change being thrust upon them. Even when it is change they’d actually like and even adopt in the not too distant future. 
 

I think he and Xbox lost a lot of goodwill over the forced Kinect integration too. Kind of a “if he’s wrong on this, he’s wrong about everything.” situation. And I think a lot of people just enjoyed dunking on Xbox for the lols. 
 

phil Spencer is a much better front man for Xbox in a PR sense. 

[Keyser_Soze]

Yes it wasn't an "always online" thing. It was making the console shift away from games to more of an entertainment medium, trying to incorporate shows into games and stuff like that. The cable passthrough into the Xbone letting you use your cable through the console (which I actually liked when I had cable)

 

But maybe he was ahead of his time because now shows about games are directly contributing to game sales. 🤔

[Paperclyp]

39 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

He didn’t sell it well, and a lot of people are almost violently opposed to change being thrust upon them. Even when it is change they’d actually like and even adopt in the not too distant future. 
 

I think he and Xbox lost a lot of goodwill over the forced Kinect integration too. Kind of a “if he’s wrong on this, he’s wrong about everything.” situation. And I think a lot of people just enjoyed dunking on Xbox for the lols. 
 

phil Spencer is a much better front man for Xbox in a PR sense. 

Yeah they also weren’t very transparent about it and they had a “you guys don’t fucking get it” smug attitude when they were pressed. It was very arrogant, like they didn’t have a plan to address the questions that were obviously gonna be asked, and they were spicy when they were asked. 
 

It was just indicative of the leadership at the time. They felt like they could get away with it without putting much effort into the messaging. It was probably a foregone conclusion that consoles would eventually go fully digital, but A) the general public wasn’t ready to accept that, B) the lack of foresight into the messaging. 
 

And like you said, they were pushing the Xbox as not primarily just a console but it was gonna have Kinect, it was gonna be your media hub etc etc etc. It just didn’t turn out to be a good vision for the company. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

And we’ve long since passed the day where the majority of console games are sold digitally, so trading and borrowing has become much more moot point. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

How has the "better" messaging worked for MS since?  Their biggest franchises are mostly irrelevant (Gears, Halo, Fable, Forza Motorsport) and haven't been replaced by new ones.  They're a distant third in console sales.  And a bunch of us have exited the Xbox ecosystem, and now only buy their stuff on Steam.