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The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power - Latest: Season 2 commences filming. Set catches fire.


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12 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

"Acting like a horse's ass" genuinely appears to be the defining characteristic of Galadriel's personality so far and it really kinda sucks because not only is it off-putting but it's borderline sexist.

arent most of the elves in general pompous assholes anyway though?

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I don't think he's a balrog. I do think there's something to his dark magic, though. I don't think he's a "good guy," and I certainly don't think he's Gandalf.

 

Also, I think Tom Bombadil is a Maya, just one that heard the music of Iluvatar and was like ".... nah, I'm just going to do my own thing, you guys have fun." Same with Ungoliant. Iluvatar gave all of his creations free will, it makes sense that not all of them followed Manwe or Morgoth. Some would have just said "fuck all you guys, I just want to eat some honey/light trees"

 

Very little in Tolkien's world is inherently evil. It follows his personal beliefs, which is why he changed the origins of Orcs so much throughout the years. He seems to have settled on Orcs having a soul, which would mean they are not irreparably evil. He even said this about the War of the Last Alliance:

 

Quote

"[They]... came at last upon the host of Sauron on Dagorlad, the Battle Plain, which lies before the gate of the Black Land. All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either host, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron."

 

Now, that could just be an omission, but it would seem to me that that would mean there were at least a few Orcs who fought AGAINST Sauron in the War of the Last Alliance.

 

I want to see that story.

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3 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

Also, I think Tom Bombadil is a Maya, just one that heard the music of Iluvatar and was like ".... nah, I'm just going to do my own thing, you guys have fun." Same with Ungoliant. Iluvatar gave all of his creations free will, it makes sense that not all of them followed Manwe or Morgoth. Some would have just said "fuck all you guys, I just want to eat some honey/light trees"

 

Well, now checking One Ring to Rule Them All wiki, it seems that they don't seem that it's clear where Ungoliant or Tom come from, based on all the evidence so I'm not sure it's so clear cut. I mean, one would presume they would come from Illuvatar but it's not so clear.

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30 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Well, now checking One Ring to Rule Them All wiki, it seems that they don't seem that it's clear where Ungoliant or Tom come from, based on all the evidence so I'm not sure it's so clear cut. I mean, one would presume they would come from Illuvatar but it's not so clear.

It's definitely not clear, that's just my own headcanon

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I don’t believe either Tom or Ungoliant is a Maiar. They’re simply too powerful, especially Tom in regards to the ring. I also believe Gandalf would be able to recognize Tom as a Maiar/Istari if he were one. There’s no direct origin mention for either, but the popular theory of them being primordial forces who took shape as a kind-of “side effect” when Eru Illuvatar created the world, to me, kind of makes the most sense given each’s strength.

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On 9/15/2022 at 3:07 AM, Spork3245 said:

I don’t believe either Tom or Ungoliant is a Maiar. They’re simply too powerful, especially Tom in regards to the ring. I also believe Gandalf would be able to recognize Tom as a Maiar/Istari if he were one. There’s no direct origin mention for either, but the popular theory of them being primordial forces who took shape as a kind-of “side effect” when Eru Illuvatar created the world, to me, kind of makes the most sense given each’s strength.

I mean, Maiar can be incredibly powerful.  I get your point, but I don't think it's enough to just say definitively that they're not. I do think they are cut from the same cloth, like the Nameless Things.

 

 

Speaking of which, after watching the current episode...

Spoiler

Adar is Sauron, right? He appears in Elf form, even though he's disfigured. Then again, Halbrand seems to be very... manipulative. That's Sauron's trademark. Sauron gets his ass kicked all the time, but he's great at giving people what they want, and so far that's what Halbrand seems to do. He knows exactly what to say and when to say it.

 

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Part of the reason this episode was so good for me is...

 

Spoiler

knowing what becomes of Numenor from the tale told in the Silmarillion. Seeing it brought to life (even in visions) is amazing. My imagination is one thing, but seeing the Downfall of Numenor in all its awe and terror is a dream come true. And knowing what comes next through the stories told about how Numenor falls and what course it takes really has me hyped for the rest of the series. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

 

 

Speaking of which, after watching the current episode...

 

It is in Galadriel's character established by Tolkien that she distrusts Sauron. Here, she follows Halbrand's advice (somewhat), so I don't think so.

 

BUT...

 

Spoiler

I think the show is doing a great job of setting up some mystery. 

 

It is established in the Silmarillion that Numenor sail to Middle Earth to wage war against Sauron's forces. After defeat, Sauron submits to the might of Numenor and is taken back to the island. There, he sweet talks his way into the palace and begins to turn ar-Pharazon (the King in the Silmarillion, but here not the King) against the way of the Faithful. That begins the Downfall of Numenor. 

 

So it could be that if Adar is Sauron, our confirmation of the show sticking to the story will be Adar being captured and brought to Numenor--wherein it will be confirmed that he is Sauron. 

 

OR it could be that they throw all that out the window (lol don't have the rights to the Silmarillion!) and have pulled a switcheroo with Halbrand beginning his ascent among the powerful of Numenor. When Galadriel escaped, he even spoke counsel to ar-Pharazon and had him put away his sword. So maybe that's it and Adar is just a minor Lord under Sauron as they await his return. 

 

Which would make sense if Halbrand joins the fighters in the war to reclaim the Southlands that Queen-Regent Miriel (not ever actually Queen in the Silmarillion, lol) has initiated. There, he could have some sort of conquest, kill or subvert/conquer Adar. Then if Halbrand goes back to Numenor to have alliance with Numenor there could be conflict with him and Miriel and possibly an alliance with ar-Pharazon. Which would then mean HALBRAND could potentially be Sauron. 

 

 

What I'm trying to say is, the mind games the writers play with the unfolding story are way more complex for us dorks that read The Silmarillion. :p 

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I think I read that the name "armenelos" (the capitol of Numenor) only ever appears in the Silmarillion, and yet they said it in the episode. Same with calling Aule by name in the second episode.

 

So just because something is only in the Silmarillion doesn't make something off limits entirely, apparently.

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Just watched the latest episode. I fucking LOVE this show. There is so much going on across all the different story lines. I got goosebumps at the end watching seeing the Numernorians decide to fight. 
 

This show, imo, is the perfect example of a show being better when it’s released weekly instead of all at once. Just look at the last couple posts. I’ll be having conversations like that both people in the know, who are well versed in Tolkien lore, and people who have only seen the movies all week long. 

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10 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

Just watched the latest episode. I fucking LOVE this show. There is so much going on across all the different story lines. I got goosebumps at the end watching seeing the Numernorians decide to fight. 
 

This show, imo, is the perfect example of a show being better when it’s released weekly instead of all at once. Just look at the last couple posts. I’ll be having conversations like that both people in the know, who are well versed in Tolkien lore, and people who have only seen the movies all week long. 

 

 

It's also really funny to me when I send this to my friends who haven't seen it yet. 

 

image0.gif

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On 9/16/2022 at 4:22 PM, Fizzzzle said:

I mean, Maiar can be incredibly powerful.  I get your point, but I don't think it's enough to just say definitively that they're not. I do think they are cut from the same cloth, like the Nameless Things.

 

 

Speaking of which, after watching the current episode...


I don’t think any Maiar would be able to overpower and nearly kill a Valar, let alone the strongest one, even if he’s a bit tired. Maiar/Istari are vulnerable to the one ring, even Gandalf; Tom plays with it like a toy and makes it vanish. It’s not impossible for them to be Maiar, just very improbable. :p 

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3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:


I don’t think any Maiar would be able to overpower and nearly kill a Valar, let alone the strongest one, even if he’s a bit tired. Maiar/Istari are vulnerable to the one ring, even Gandalf; Tom plays with it like a toy and makes it vanish. It’s not impossible for them to be Maiar, just very improbable. :p 

I don't think it's necessarily because Tom is more powerful, it's just that he has no desires. Sauron (and by extension the Ring) manipulate you by appealing to your desires, and Tom has none. He's basically a nature spirit. That's why his appearance doesn't change when he puts the Ring on - his Fëa and his Hröa are the same. Tom is... Tom. I think that's also why Hobbits tend to be less corruptable than others - most of them just want good food and a warm fire, there isn't a whole lot of desire for the Ring to play with.

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9 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

I don't think it's necessarily because Tom is more powerful, it's just that he has no desires. Sauron (and by extension the Ring) manipulate you by appealing to your desires, and Tom has none. He's basically a nature spirit. That's why his appearance doesn't change when he puts the Ring on - his Fëa and his Hröa are the same. Tom is... Tom. I think that's also why Hobbits tend to be less corruptable than others - most of them just want good food and a warm fire, there isn't a whole lot of desire for the Ring to play with.


Eh, the ring doesn’t even make Tom turn invisible, he could make the ring vanish, and he could still see Frodo when Frodo put the ring on. Also, Ungoliant nearly killing Morgoth and taking multiple Balrogs to stop her is not something I don’t believe any Maiar could achieve singlehandedly. 

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38 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

To clarify, I think they’re Ainu, just not necessarily a Valar or Maiar - just something else that “came to be”.

So we agree, then!:p

 

That's what I'm saying. They're similar spirit beings as the Maiar who just kind of ignored the music of Eru and did their own thing, only not in the same way Melkor did. They became single-minded entities that found their "thing" and settled on it.

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5 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

So we agree, then!:p

 

That's what I'm saying. They're similar spirit beings as the Maiar who just kind of ignored the music of Eru and did their own thing, only not in the same way Melkor did. They became single-minded entities that found their "thing" and settled on it.


Kinda - I err towards the side of that Tom is the primordial essence/being that embodies the music (that’s why he’s kinda always singing or dancing), Ungoliant would be the embodiment of the primordial “darkness” so-to-speak.

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Matching neckplate:

 

RDT-20220917-1155068647804958642789601.p

 

Good theory from resetera on who Adar is:

 

Spoiler

Maglor. Son of Faenor. His hand got burned by throwing the silmarillion in the sea (”he then wandered the shores in sorrow and faded from memory”.. and he is wearing the gauntlet to cover it up. He also mentioned the mouth of the river in Beleriand where the Third Kinslaying took place

 

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4 hours ago, Spork3245 said:


Eh, the ring doesn’t even make Tom turn invisible, he could make the ring vanish, and he could still see Frodo when Frodo put the ring on. Also, Ungoliant nearly killing Morgoth and taking multiple Balrogs to stop her is not something I don’t believe any Maiar could achieve singlehandedly. 

Also, the ring doesn't turn you "invisible," per se. It transports you to the spirit realm. Sauron isn't invisible when he wears it, as gandalf or Saruman wouldn't be, either. Or any Elf from Valinor, such as Galadriel or Glorfindel. And those people would still be able to see someone with the Ring on. It's only regular folk for whom the invisibility trait works .

 

I think Tom's appearance doesn't change when he wears the Ring, because there's nothing TO change. Tom is Tom.

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12 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

Also, the ring doesn't turn you "invisible," per se. It transports you to the spirit realm. Sauron isn't invisible when he wears it, as gandalf or Saruman wouldn't be, either. Or any Elf from Valinor, such as Galadriel or Glorfindel. And those people would still be able to see someone with the Ring on. It's only regular folk for whom the invisibility trait works .

 

I think Tom's appearance doesn't change when he wears the Ring, because there's nothing TO change. Tom is Tom.


Yes, but there’s typically some change that occurs, whether it’s a change in “aura” of the person to turning invisible (yes, I understand it’s a slip into another realm for those who cannot grasp its full power, but, for all intents and purposes, it’s essentially invisible). For Tom, there was nothing. The argument of “Tom doesn’t change because Tom is Tom”, to me, doesn’t really hold well while saying he’s a Maiar, unless you’re agreeing that he’s something else that’s not Maiar :p 

 

Unfortunately, we'll never actually know what Tom or Ungoliant actually are and left to guesses based on the information given - for all we know Tom could very well simply be an allegory for Tolkien himself

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25 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

That's one thing I LOVE about the show, so far. Orcs are fucking scary. Maybe not to people like Gil Galad, or Elves in general, but they've done a great job at making them look menacing as fuck, which is something the Peter Jackson movies missed a little bit at times

 

 

I get what you mean, but also:

 

lotr-orc.gif

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11 hours ago, Fizzzzle said:

That's one thing I LOVE about the show, so far. Orcs are fucking scary. Maybe not to people like Gil Galad, or Elves in general, but they've done a great job at making them look menacing as fuck, which is something the Peter Jackson movies missed a little bit at times

 


Absolutely. The Peter Jackson movies made them look good enough, but they also made them seem like weak cannon fodder who are only a threat due to numbers. The show is better illustrating their sheer aggression, IMO, which definitely adds to their “scariness”.

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