DeSantis will be president in 2024

[CitizenVectron]

DeSantis' education message is winning in battleground states, teacher union poll finds

WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

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Florida’s governor was bitterly criticized on the left for his education policies and rhetoric, but battleground voters appear to favor much of what he's been saying and doing.

 

Quote

A major set of red flags in the poll for Democrats and teacher unions was a series of questions that look like they were ripped from DeSantis's Friday speech on "critical race theory" and teaching kids about sexuality and gender identity. While the survey didn't mention DeSantis by name, it tested education messages he popularized nationally — more so than Virginia Gov. Glenn Youngkin, a Republican who won in a Democratic-leaning state last year on a parental-rights education platform that was far less provocative than DeSantis'.

 

Quote

One poll question found that voters, by a 32 percentage-point margin, said they were more likely to vote for candidates who believe public schools should focus less on teaching race and more on core subjects. By 27 points, they said schools should be banned from teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to kids in kindergarten through third grade. By 28 points, they said transgender athletes should be banned from competing in girls' sports.

 

[Kal-El814]

The fact that the right has been able to frame this as “teaching race” is depressing.

[mclumber1]

Being able to control the narrative is incredibly powerful.  Whether they are actually saying it or not, when the "other side" argues that men can be pregnant too, you are bound to turn off huge swath of people who might otherwise vote for your party.  If the Republicans can convince the electorate that this (pregnant men) is something that is central to Democratic values and policy positions, then it's definitely going to be an uphill climb for the Democrats.

[Kal-El814]

4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Being able to control the narrative is incredibly powerful.  Whether they are actually saying it or not, when the "other side" argues that men can be pregnant too, you are bound to turn off huge swath of people who might otherwise vote for your party.  If the Republicans can convince the electorate that this (pregnant men) is something that is central to Democratic values and policy positions, then it's definitely going to be an uphill climb for the Democrats.

 

I don’t even think this is “narrative control” insomuch as it is narrative creation. The percentage of Democratic voters that care or even “believe” that stuff is depressingly low, the number of elected Democratic representatives that feel the same way is lower, and the number of elected democratic reps that are open advocates is lower than that.

 

And also let’s be clear, trans men exist, trans men can get pregnant.

[mclumber1]

All it's going to take is having one prominent Democrat get pressed on that particular subject, coming to the same conclusion as @Kal-El814 and the GOP will have a gold mine for an entire election cycle.  So what do Democrats do in response?  Double down on that viewpoint, or reject it? 

[Anathema-]

nah

[Comet]

14 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

All it's going to take is having one prominent Democrat get pressed on that particular subject, coming to the same conclusion as @Kal-El814 and the GOP will have a gold mine for an entire election cycle.  So what do Democrats do in response?  Double down on that viewpoint, or reject it? 

Other, side step that question and focus on issues that can galvanize larger support.

 

get in, get elected and protect LGBTQ rights indefatigably. But that doesn’t mean you have to take the annoying right-wing media bait in this stuff in the interim

[mclumber1]

3 minutes ago, Comet said:

Other, side step that question and focus on issues that can galvanize larger support.

 

get in, get elected and protect LGBTQ rights indefatigably. But that doesn’t mean you have to take the annoying right-wing media bait in this stuff in the interim

 

I agree with your sentiment, but bruh, do you know about the Democratic party? 

 

[Joe]

I was just reading this Twitter thread. Now I’m sure many here hate Megan McArdle, but I thought this take was very interesting.

 

I agree that trans men exist (obviously) and that men can get pregnant, but I do think the way Democrats and the left message this stuff sucks right now. Clearly what’s happening right now isn’t working and can easily be twisted by the right to make regular people adopt transphobic positions.

[Kal-El814]

30 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

All it's going to take is having one prominent Democrat get pressed on that particular subject, coming to the same conclusion as @Kal-El814 and the GOP will have a gold mine for an entire election cycle.  So what do Democrats do in response?  Double down on that viewpoint, or reject it? 

 

Who fuckin cares. I’m tired of the notion that democrats need to jettison particular segments of people because they’re too icky for the general public to support. Less than 20 years ago the same “gotcha” would have been “oh so you think two men can safely raise a child?”

 

It rings especially hollow because shit like stricter assault rifle bans, background checks, support for abortion, etc., enjoy popular support but right wing chodes don’t stop carping about how toxic those policies are. People are still more homophobic and transphobic than they should be, but they’re not nearly as much as the Fox Cinematic Universe would have you believe.

 

And again who’s doubling down? Why are we pretending these positions are unassailable and that conservatives don’t have dramatically worse views?

 

“Do you believe men can get pregnant?”

 

”Do you believe child rape victims should be forced to attempt a birth that would play out like a scene from Alien?”

 

It’s not that fucking hard.

[Ghost_MH]

29 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

All it's going to take is having one prominent Democrat get pressed on that particular subject, coming to the same conclusion as @Kal-El814 and the GOP will have a gold mine for an entire election cycle.  So what do Democrats do in response?  Double down on that viewpoint, or reject it? 

 

Call Republicans liars and that they're just making shit up to rile up their base. Democrats and the press are terribly afraid of just truthfully saying that Republicans are liars. Nobody is teaching "race". What did that even mean? Nobody is teaching kindergarten kids about sex. Republicans are lying about this stuff and anytime a Democrat gets asked questions about this stuff they should just no bullshit remind everyone that is ok to call out liars for lying.

[stepee]

They just need to stop being polite and pretending these people are asking genuine questions, it’s absolutely ridiculous we are still doing that.

 

Whenever someone asks that shitty bait question that has nothing to do with anything even remotely important they should answer with “Well, I know your mom won’t get pregnant after I fucked her last night, because she’s dead bitch” every time regardless if the mother is dead or not. If they perceive it as a threat that you will kill their mom just explain that you thought she was dead already because if they were your son/daughter you would have offed yourself by now. Problem solved.

[TUFKAK]

Women is a gender construct, not just women can get pregnant. As was just widely reported, 10 yo girls can get pregnant too.

 

The US deserves to collapse.

[MarSolo]

DeSantis is going to get crushed by Trump’s insane ramblings. Remember, we all thought Ted Cruz or JEB! were going to be the nominee in 2016, and Trump came in and wedgied both of them.

[LazyPiranha]

I do wonder what will happen in the event of a Trump/Desantis schism.  Does Desantis kiss the ring and bow out, or do they each play chicken?  

[MarSolo]

Meanwhile, Bannon is floating a potential Mike Flynn run in:

 

[Anathema-]

The strongest and best and most correct way to frame nearly every right wing culture war is to highlight how they're the ones who are making a big deal out of everything and they just need to leave people alone and let them be.

[5timechamp]

its the GOP advantage.. they have a very narrow, focused, and traditional message.. guns, church, husband and wife family values schtick that is the safe norm…selling THAT as being threatened is easy… just as it is hard for any Democrat if he fails to acknowledge and/or cater to all marginalized groups they claim to represent..

 

Ultimately it may come down to just how truly upset women really are about others controlling their reproductive rights and the penance for that… 

 

In Missouri you see cool ads like Reublican so and so cares for tradition, gun rights, child safety, and secure borders…. 

[mclumber1]

10 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

The strongest and best and most correct way to frame nearly every right wing culture war is to highlight how they're the ones who are making a big deal out of everything and they just need to leave people alone and let them be.

 

You're probably right. And it's no coincidence that the many of the most vocal anti-gay politicians turned out to be gay or at least dabbled in homosexuality, for instance. 

[Spork3245]

A lot will happen in 2 years. The “shift in opinion” with Trump among some republicans (allegedly not wanting him to run again and preferring someone else) from the Jan 6th hearings may even be long gone by then.

[Air_Delivery]

You guys sure do love your doomer porn.

[johnny]

4 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

The fact that the right has been able to frame this as “teaching race” is depressing.

i teach world history and it’s actually crazy because some subjects you have to consider race to fully understand the topic. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

If trump is not the nominee he’s dead and if he’s not the nominee and not dead he’s running 3rd party out of spite 

[Ominous]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

i teach world history and it’s actually crazy because some subjects you have to consider race to fully understand the topic. 

Sounds like your profession isn't needed in Florida. 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, johnny said:

i teach world history and it’s actually crazy because some subjects you have to consider race to fully understand the topic. 

 

You say this like the GOP doesn't know this.

[Comet]

5 hours ago, MarSolo said:

DeSantis is going to get crushed by Trump’s insane ramblings. Remember, we all thought Ted Cruz or JEB! were going to be the nominee in 2016, and Trump came in and wedgied both of them.

DeSantis has equally insane ramblings tho 

[unogueen]

Reps have done a wonderful job distilling their platform into soundbites that cater to disenfranchised or 'single issue' voters. You want to play fire with fire. Take the politics out, no more right or left. Be incessant about the issue without declaring a platform, if anyone else does, it's their hill to die on.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

7 hours ago, Anathema- said:

The strongest and best and most correct way to frame nearly every right wing culture war is to highlight how they're the ones who are making a big deal out of everything and they just need to leave people alone and let them be.

This and also show people the things they say is insane (and unpopular)

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

8 hours ago, Air_Delivery said:

You guys sure do love your doomer porn.

To be fair to the doomers—particularly the progressive ones—things are very grim right now, and the near-term path out of the dark valley is not all that visible.

All the vectors of US politics are currently telegraphing a period in which the progressive political project is about to take a beating.

 

-the Supreme Court is set to strike down any legislative victory progressives might win, or any advantage they might gain in the lower courts; they are also on their way to rolling back previous gains on major issues 

 

-Progressives have been successfully tied to ‘Woke’-ism, which is not only unpopular with most voters, but has started to undermine progressives’ traditional strengths in areas like education—the collapse in the Democratic advantage in polling about education, both in Florida and in Virginia, bodes very poorly for progressive performance in key swing states.  That they are starting to lose ground amongst key demographics like blacks and Hispanics, bodes even worse.

 

-Big data-augmented gerrymandering has made it so that even when progressives (or progressive-leaning centrists!) win over a majority of voters on the issues, they cannot effectively gain power.

 

Add that to the fact that the alt-right becomes less constrained by conventional institutional norms by the day, to the point where they are openly talking about nullifying presidential elections and sabotaging electoral machinery if progressives win at the ballot box.

 

There are very few clear, realistically achievable solutions to these problems in the near or medium-term.  
 

The non-delusional optimist really only has the long term left as a bright spot.
 

Basically, the optimistic case is:

-we might catch a lucky break (all six conservatives on the court might drop dead tomorrow!  Democrats might hold both houses during the next big redrawing of districts!)

-if we keep voting and organizing, and our political system can avoid a complete, Bosnia-style break down (or an Orban-style devolvement into right-wing authoritarianism) in the next few decades, we might be able to lay the groundwork for the millennials and the zoomers to build a better society, eventually solidifying progressive victories on reproductive rights, gay/lesbian rights, and presiding over a more tolerant, racially-integrated society.

 

So even the optimistic case still requires a reckoning with a very painful short-run.  
 

That doesn’t mean it’s okay to give up.  Giving up would cede the one thing progressives have going for them and betray both past and future generations of Americans.  But it does mean coming to terms with a very dark present.  In light of all that, perhaps we might be forgiven if wrestling with this bleak reality occasionally leads to something resembling ‘doomerism’.

 

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

To be fair to the doomers—particularly the progressive ones—things are very grim right now, and the near-term path out of the dark valley is not all that visible.

All the vectors of US politics are currently telegraphing a period in which the progressive political project is about to take a beating.

 

-the Supreme Court is set to strike down any legislative victory progressives might win, or any advantage they might gain in the lower courts; they are also on their way to rolling back previous gains on major issues 

 

-Progressives have been successfully tied to ‘Woke’-ism, which is not only unpopular with most voters, but has started to undermine progressives’ traditional strengths in areas like education—the collapse in the Democratic advantage in polling about education, both in Florida and in Virginia, bodes very poorly for progressive performance in key swing states.  That they are starting to lose ground amongst key demographics like blacks and Hispanics, bodes even worse.

 

-Big data-augmented gerrymandering has made it so that even when progressives (or progressive-leaning centrists!) win over a majority of voters on the issues, they cannot effectively gain power.

 

Add that to the fact that the alt-right becomes less constrained by conventional institutional norms by the day, to the point where they are openly talking about nullifying presidential elections and sabotaging electoral machinery if progressives win at the ballot box.

 

There are very few clear, realistically achievable solutions to these problems in the near or medium-term.  
 

The non-delusional optimist really only has the long term left as a bright spot.
 

Basically, the optimistic case is:

-we might catch a lucky break (all six conservatives on the court might drop dead tomorrow!  Democrats might hold both houses during the next big redrawing of districts!)

-if we keep voting and organizing, and our political system can avoid a complete, Bosnia-style break down (or an Orban-style devolvement into right-wing authoritarianism) in the next few decades, we might be able to lay the groundwork for the millennials and the zoomers to build a better society, eventually solidifying progressive victories on reproductive rights, gay/lesbian rights, and presiding over a more tolerant, racially-integrated society.

 

So even the optimistic case still requires a reckoning with a very painful short-run.  
 

That doesn’t mean it’s okay to give up.  Giving up would cede the one thing progressives have going for them and betray both past and future generations of Americans.  But it does mean coming to terms with a very dark present.  In light of all that, perhaps we might be forgiven if wrestling with this bleak reality occasionally leads to something resembling ‘doomerism’.

 

 

 

 

Just move to a state that reflects your values. The things that affect your life on the daily are far more related to local and state politics than federal.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Just move to a state that reflects your values.

 

[marioandsonic]

16 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Just move to a state that reflects your values. The things that affect your life on the daily are far more related to local and state politics than federal.

 

"Just move bro"

 

Not that simple, buddy.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

 

"Just move bro"

 

Not that simple, buddy.

It is, people do it all the time. Some people just don’t have the courage to do it because change can be scary.

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Just move to a state that reflects your values. The things that affect your life on the daily are far more related to local and state politics than federal.

Definitely agree, and this is one positive aspect of the country’s political heterogeneity.

 

But that, too, is a short-term salve on a larger political wound that will take much longer and much more medicine  to heal, and, if not properly treated, threatens to become so gangrenous and infected that it kills the body politic.

 

My hope is that we can do enough so that, if not us, then our descendants will mend it successfully, and the country can get itself back into rude health without too much unnecessary suffering.

 

I mean, we’re not living in a fascist dystopia or anything, yet.  We’re still very privileged to be American.  But it’s also a scary and difficult time in many ways.

 

As I said above, long-term trends and the general resourcefulness of my generation’s kids give me hope.

[Air_Delivery]

57 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

 

Just move to a state that reflects your values. The things that affect your life on the daily are far more related to local and state politics than federal.

As soon as Conservatives get a chance to ban shit nationwide they will.