Movies Dune: Part 3 (aka "Dune Messiah") officially confirmed to be in development

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Denis Villeneuve's third 'Dune' movie is officially happening

EW.COM

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Legendary confirmed that they are developing a third 'Dune' movie with Denis Villeneuve, fulfilling the director's dream of adapting Frank Herbert's novel 'Dune Messiah.'

 

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Sometimes, dreams do come true. That’s as true for Paul Atreides as it is for Denis Villeneuve, who now gets to make his third Dune movie. Legendary confirmed on Thursday that they are currently developing a third movie in the sci-fi franchise based on Frank Herbert's original novels and are also in talks with Villeneuve to adapt Annie Jacobsen’s nonfiction book Nuclear War: A Scenario after that.

 

[Greatoneshere]

Nice to see it confirmed even though Denis Villeneueve has been working on the script, with it almost being done since last December. I'm more curious how they'll deal with the 12 year time jump between Dune and Dune Messiah, especially given Timothee Chalamet's extremely youthful appearance. If Denis does Nuclear War: A Scenario first (he said he wants to take a break and do a "small" movie before coming back to Dune) that could buy at least enough time. Denis did joke about this recently. I'm not saying this is some insurmountable problem, Chalamet killed it, especially in Part Two, but he will have to sell a much older, harder, darker Paul Atreides in the sequel.

 

Dune Messiah Keeping Timothée Chalamet Comes With One Small Problem - SlashFilm

WWW.SLASHFILM.COM

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If Timothee Chalamet returns for Dune 3, aka Dune Messiah, it might be a problem. Here's why.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

The difficult one will be the cinematic version of Children of Dune, and subsequent novels....

It's been over 30 years since I read them, but they go places.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The difficult one will be the cinematic version of Children of Dune, and subsequent novels....

It's been over 30 years since I read them, but they go places.

 

Villeneuve has resolutely stated that he's done after "Dune Messiah" as he feels the subsequent novels get a bit too "esoteric" to be filmable and he's really only interested in Paul's arc (yes, yes - I know that it doesn't "technically" end until "Children of Dune").

[AbsolutSurgen]

9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Villeneuve has resolutely stated that he's done after "Dune Messiah" as he feels the subsequent novels get a bit too "esoteric" to be filmable and he's really only interested in Paul's arc (yes, yes - I know that it doesn't "technically" end until "Children of Dune").

The real hero of the Dune Hexalogy for me was always Duncan Idaho.

Do we really understand what Frank Herbert was trying to say without the ending of Heretics of Dune?  (I've never read the novels after #6).  I would have to reread the books, but does  Dune Messiah even come to a truly satisfactory ending?

My favourite take on Dune has been the accusation that it is a "white saviour" story.  Which is always a clear indication to me, that they have never read the novels. (or, at the very least, not beyond the first one.)

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Do we really understand what Frank Herbert was trying to say without the ending of Heretics of Dune?  (I've never read the novels after #6).  I would have to reread the books, but does  Dune Messiah even come to a truly satisfactory ending?

 

Paul's story arc does conclude "satisfactorily" in Dune Messiah as it absolutely reinforces Herbert's overarching theme of "beware of Messianic figures".

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Do we really understand what Frank Herbert was trying to say without the ending of Heretics of Dune?  (I've never read the novels after #6).  I would have to reread the books, but does  Dune Messiah even come to a truly satisfactory ending?

 

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Paul's story arc does conclude "satisfactorily" in Dune Messiah as it absolutely reinforces Herbert's overarching theme of "beware of Messianic figures".

 

Yeah, having recently re-read the six Frank Herbert written novels the past few years, Dune Messiah does do a good job of wrapping up Paul's arc in many ways, but outside of that, it's very obvious there's a lot more story to tell as Dune Messiah sets up a lot of things that then play out in the much longer novel Children of Dune (Dune Messiah is like 200 pages by comparison to Children of Dune's 500-ish pages). I'm sure Denis Villenueve can find a way to make Dune Messiah end strongly enough but in no way do the books play out like it's some duology or trilogy. If you wanted a complete story of at least the current plotlines and the Atreides family arc, you'd have to adapt the first four novels, including God Emperor of Dune (my favorite one out of the book series but it is very obtuse, esoteric and philosophical). I think Denis VIllenueve says he won't come back but give it time and he'll one day say: "I see a way to crack Children of Dune in a two-part movie" after a few years, but we'll see (like Dune, Children of Dune is far too long to be adapted into one movie, honestly it could use three but I'll take two).

 

Either way, none of the books after the six Frank Herbert ones matter. The prequels and sequels written by Frank Herbert's son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson are fine but nothing special. They are typical sci-fi novels as opposed to the esoteric, centuries spanning stories of Frank Herbert's initial six novels. I tell most people not to waste their time past the initial six but be forewarned that Frank Herbert died soon after the sixth novel's release and he was clearly setting up new plotlines in that book. The new ones written by his son and Kevin J. Anderson do follow through in their sequels but it's not the same by a wide margin. But if you really need answers they are there in their books. 

 

The first four novels tell a complete story however and if you just read the first four novels and stopped you'd be completely satisfied. However, books 5 and 6 really are fascinating to read and well worth everyone's time but books 5+6 start a completely new story for the most part. But I imagine in terms of movies we probably would never get past adaptations of the first four books, if we even get that far. But man that'd be some wild sci-fi if we got to books 4, 5 and 6. 

 

Edit: I also really hope they don't call it Dune: Part Three because that's just confusing in terms of book to movie numbering. It's not a trilogy and Dune Messiah is the second book in the series, not the third book. Just call it Dune Messiah. Dune is a long novel, so it required two parts, let's move on, simple enough. I know they've threatened to do so but I hope they don't.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

Yeah, having recently re-read the six Frank Herbert written novels the past few years, Dune Messiah does do a good job of wrapping up Paul's arc in many ways, but outside of that, it's very obvious there's a lot more story to tell as Dune Messiah sets up a lot of things that then play out in the much longer novel Children of Dune (Dune Messiah is like 200 pages by comparison to Children of Dune's 500-ish pages). I'm sure Denis Villenueve can find a way to make Dune Messiah end strongly enough but in no way do the books play out like it's some duology or trilogy. If you wanted a complete story of at least the current plotlines and the Atreides family arc, you'd have to adapt the first four novels, including God Emperor of Dune (my favorite one out of the book series but it is very obtuse, esoteric and philosophical). I think Denis VIllenueve says he won't come back but give it time and he'll one day say: "I see a way to crack Children of Dune in a two-part movie" after a few years, but we'll see (like Dune, Children of Dune is far too long to be adapted into one movie, honestly it could use three but I'll take two).

 

Either way, none of the books after the six Frank Herbert ones matter. The prequels and sequels written by Frank Herbert's son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson are fine but nothing special. They are typical sci-fi novels as opposed to the esoteric, centuries spanning stories of Frank Herbert's initial six novels. I tell most people not to waste their time past the initial six but be forewarned that Frank Herbert died soon after the sixth novel's release and he was clearly setting up new plotlines in that book. The new ones written by his son and Kevin J. Anderson do follow through in their sequels but it's not the same by a wide margin. But if you really need answers they are there in their books. 

 

The first four novels tell a complete story however and if you just read the first four novels and stopped you'd be completely satisfied. However, books 5 and 6 really are fascinating to read and well worth everyone's time but books 5+6 start a completely new story for the most part. But I imagine in terms of movies we probably would never get past adaptations of the first four books, if we even get that far. But man that'd be some wild sci-fi if we got to books 4, 5 and 6. 

It's been more than 30 years since I read those books, so my memory is VERY fuzzy.  My recollection is very similar to this.  Thanks.  It makes me want to reread the series.

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

It's been more than 30 years since I read those books, so my memory is VERY fuzzy.  My recollection is very similar to this.  Thanks.  It makes me want to reread the series.

 

 

They are very good reads (dense of course) but as an adult you intake and understand so much more than when I first read them in my teens. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

They are very good reads (dense of course) but as an adult you intake and understand so much more than when I first read them in my teens. 

Lol.  Just pulled out my copy of Heretics of Dune -- my recollection was I had read it in University.  Nope.  Middle school.  Gotta do it.

[Kal-El814]

The books beyond Messiah might as well be a photocopier that spits out Duncan Idahos and a lognform worm LARP, the less they're considered for a film adaptation, the better.  

[Mercury33]

12 years really isn’t as much of a time jump as it seems in terms of the way people look. Paul’s what, 20 at the end of Dune? Little make up and the right lighting and your good. 

[Greatoneshere]

5 hours ago, Mercury33 said:

12 years really isn’t as much of a time jump as it seems in terms of the way people look. Paul’s what, 20 at the end of Dune? Little make up and the right lighting and your good. 

 

Of course, I'm sure they'll make it work but being 20 vs. being 32 years old is a huge difference, especially when you have to look weary enough because of a 12 year genocidal space campaign on top of it all.

[Mercury33]

Touche. Just look at how much every president ages in four years. Well the ones that are actually trying anyway. 

[CitizenVectron]

If Herbert had stopped after Dune Messiah, it would have been a good ending. If he had stopped after God Emperor of Dune, that also would have been a good ending. There are multiple places you can end reading the OG 6 books and be satisfied, imo. In terms of cinematic adaptations, I think ending after Messiah is perfect.

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

If Herbert had stopped after Dune Messiah, it would have been a good ending. If he had stopped after God Emperor of Dune, that also would have been a good ending. There are multiple places you can end reading the OG 6 books and be satisfied, imo. In terms of cinematic adaptations, I think ending after Messiah is perfect.

 

I'm not saying you can't end it after Dune Messiah, but you really think Dune Messiah ends on a complete note? There are tons of open ended plot threads left unaddressed when it ends. Hell, even with Paul it's not clear until Children of Dune.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

but you really think Dune Messiah ends on a complete note?

 

Yes, Dune Messiah definitively concludes Paul's "be wary of messianic leaders" story arc which is the primary theme for the first two books.

[Greatoneshere]

5 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Yes, Dune Messiah definitively concludes Paul's "be wary of messianic leaders" story arc which is the primary theme for the first two books.

 

Agreed, but it's in no way a complete story of Dune in general. When I finished Dune Messiah I did not feel like: "ah, yes, this is like Return of the King, the story is over" because it just isn't. Finishing one main story arc does not mean it ends everything on a complete note. The ending to Dune Messiah is really good for the end of Paul's arc, but Dune is bigger than Paul and I don't feel the movies make him bigger than that, it's still about the overall story, which Paul plays a part in. Paul is a cog in a much larger story, reframing a movie adaptation to simply be about him is short sighted I think. It's like Aragorn is obviously a main character in LOTR but LOTR is bigger than Aragorn.

[CitizenVectron]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Agreed, but it's in no way a complete story of Dune in general. When I finished Dune Messiah I did not feel like: "ah, yes, this is like Return of the King, the story is over" because it just isn't. Finishing one main story arc does not mean it ends everything on a complete note. The ending to Dune Messiah is really good for the end of Paul's arc, but Dune is bigger than Paul and I don't feel the movies make him bigger than that, it's still about the overall story, which Paul plays a part in. Paul is a cog in a much larger story, reframing a movie adaptation to simply be about him is short sighted I think. It's like Aragorn is obviously a main character in LOTR but LOTR is bigger than Aragorn.

 

It's a complete story for Paul, who can basically be assumed to be soon dead at the end, if you so choose to believe. It's open-ended in terms of the fate of the universe and his children, etc, but that's okay if you assume the first and second book are about the effect he's had on the universe a singular, terrifying figure. It's the same how you could have ended the Star Wars series after the original movie and still be satisfied—yes, it leaves the universe unexplored, the primary story (that the movie set out to tell) has been told. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

It's a complete story for Paul, who can basically be assumed to be soon dead at the end, if you so choose to believe. It's open-ended in terms of the fate of the universe and his children, etc, but that's okay if you assume the first and second book are about the effect he's had on the universe a singular, terrifying figure. It's the same how you could have ended the Star Wars series after the original movie and still be satisfied—yes, it leaves the universe unexplored, the primary story (that the movie set out to tell) has been told. 

 

Agreed, but it's a pretty unfulfilling ending in broad terms, to me at least. Even assuming what happens to Paul is vague (a good ending though), it takes Children of Dune to confirm it. I dunno, maybe I'm too biased and am too much of a Dune fan but I'd be pretty disappointed if we stopped at Dune Messiah when more could be done. On the other hand, I never thought I'd even get a good Dune adaptation, so I'm also grateful for anything at this point.  

[Chris-]

So can you nerds finally tell me if Children of Dune is worth reading? I liked Messiah - in some sense maybe even more than the original (Scytale and Hayt rule). But I don't want to read it if it sucks.

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, Chris- said:

So can you nerds finally tell me if Children of Dune is worth reading? I liked Messiah - in some sense maybe even more than the original (Scytale and Hayt rule). But I don't want to read it if it sucks.

 

All six books are excellent (the ones written by Frank Herbert). If you liked the first two books, I think they only get better (but more dense/esoteric). Yes, read it. Why, you got better books waiting in the wings?  And yes, agreed, Scytale and Hayt rule, they better nail them (and the entire counter-Paul council) in the movie adaptation. 

[Chris-]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

All six books are excellent (the ones written by Frank Herbert). If you liked the first two books, I think they only get better (but more dense/esoteric). Yes, read it. Why, you got better books waiting in the wings?  

 

Yes, many!

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, Chris- said:

 

Yes, many!

 

Better ones? Doubtful.