Canadian gov. introduces bill banning sale of handguns (and imports), plans buy-back assault weapons, caps long-gun magazine size at 5 rounds

[AbsolutSurgen]

15 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

In all honesty, you really didn’t make a single point in your three bullet points besides what I’ll address below. You just described numbers!
 

It isn’t a maybe, it is very basic economics. The availability of domestic guns drives down the price of imported guns. 

 

I am also a bit confused by the notion that adding hours of drive time doesn’t materially impact an individuals ability and desire to secure a weapon.

 

Decreasing access to domestic guns is a positive if your goal is reduction in gun deaths. How positive is the only question.

Getting a legal gun is not easy in Canada.  In order to buy a handgun in Canada:

1)  You have to take a $340 of courses that includes 12 hours of classroom instruction, it is a 2 day course that must be a minimum of 30-days apart

2)  Pass 2 exams

3)  Apply for a restricted firearms license for $80 (and takes a minimum of 45 days to be processed), with a minimum of 28-day waiting period

4)  Get an Authorization to Transport a restricted firearm from the Government (you can't transport it from the store to your home without a license)

5)  Get a trigger lock, and a storage vault

 

Radio host proves how easy it is to find an illegal gun in Toronto

TORONTO.CTVNEWS.CA

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A radio host who wanted to see how easy it is to get an illegal gun in Toronto was viewing firearms in the parking lot of a mall just hours after he began looking for one.

Or, if you want an illegal gun from the US, and it took a local radio host 5-hours to get one, avoid all of that hassle.  And, you have the added benefit of not registering with the government -- which is advantageous if you plan on doing some carjackings.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Getting a legal gun is not easy in Canada.  In order to buy a handgun in Canada:

1)  You have to take a $340 of courses that includes 12 hours of classroom instruction, it is a 2 day course that must be a minimum of 30-days apart

2)  Pass 2 exams

3)  Apply for a restricted firearms license for $80 (and takes a minimum of 45 days to be processed), with a minimum of 28-day waiting period

4)  Get an Authorization to Transport a restricted firearm from the Government (you can't transport it from the store to your home without a license)

5)  Get a trigger lock, and a storage vault

 

Radio host proves how easy it is to find an illegal gun in Toronto

TORONTO.CTVNEWS.CA

---

A radio host who wanted to see how easy it is to get an illegal gun in Toronto was viewing firearms in the parking lot of a mall just hours after he began looking for one.

Or, if you want an illegal gun from the US, and it took a local radio host 5-hours to get one, avoid all of that hassle.  And, you have the added benefit of not registering with the government -- which is advantageous if you plan on doing some carjackings.

The various articles I’ve read show something like 50k new legal handgun sales in Canada every year. It’s not THAT hard 😂

 

And you are shifting the goal posts here. I didn’t make the claim it’s hours of driving to go to the US to purchase a gun, you did. So now saying “well you can just get an illegal gun locally” is no refutation of what I said.

 

My point here is that banning legal handgun purchases in Canada increases the cost of illegal handgun purchases in Canada, and the source of the illegal guns is wholly irrelevant to that equation. 
 

Your arguments all boil down to “it doesn’t do enough, so why bother?” and I don’t find that a compelling argument. Only 20% of this or 16% of that, so no need. I can’t think of any important issue where you could impact up yo a 1/5th of the situations and think “why bother?”. I don’t know how anything ever gets done. For crying out loud, in most wealthy nations children account for around 20% of the population and by this logic we should never bother doing anything to their benefit because what about the 80% it doesn’t apply to?

 

I think you may be obfuscating your actual position here with regard to these laws.
 

Let’s just imagine a scenario in which the laws being proposed were adopted and the majority of gun homicides vanished, would you then support it or would you still oppose?

 

Quote

Newstalk 1010 host Yonah Budd said he was confident he could find a gun in Toronto through contacts he made as a private investigator, crisis intervention specialist and prison chaplain. 

Also from the article, guy had quite the leg up on getting in contact with the gun smugglers  

[PaladinSolo]

Conservatives around the world are always here to tell us "Why bother?!"

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

24 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

Conservatives around the world are always here to tell us "Why bother?!"

If you can’t fix everything at once why bother????

 

there’s a reason why this cynicism on the left is right adjacent 

[AbsolutSurgen]

48 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

The various articles I’ve read show something like 50k new legal handgun sales in Canada every year. It’s not THAT hard 😂

 

And you are shifting the goal posts here. I didn’t make the claim it’s hours of driving to go to the US to purchase a gun, you did. So now saying “well you can just get an illegal gun locally” is no refutation of what I said.

 

My point here is that banning legal handgun purchases in Canada increases the cost of illegal handgun purchases in Canada, and the source of the illegal guns is wholly irrelevant to that equation. 

I've tried to make the point that they are different markets, but I'll be moving on from this one.  No one in Canada is making that particular argument, and I don't think either one of us will be changing the other's opinion on this point.

 

 

48 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Your arguments all boil down to “it doesn’t do enough, so why bother?” and I don’t find that a compelling argument. Only 20% of this or 16% of that, so no need. I can’t think of any important issue where you could impact up yo a 1/5th of the situations and think “why bother?”. I don’t know how anything ever gets done. For crying out loud, in most wealthy nations children account for around 20% of the population and by this logic we should never bother doing anything to their benefit because what about the 80% it doesn’t apply to?

 

I think you may be obfuscating your actual position here with regard to these laws.
 

Let’s just imagine a scenario in which the laws being proposed were adopted and the majority of gun homicides vanished, would you then support it or would you still oppose?

 

Also from the article, guy had quite the leg up on getting in contact with the gun smugglers  

I would 100% support a worldwide ban on handguns and ammunition.  But as long as you jokers make buying guns easier than alcohol, there is no point banning them here.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I've tried to make the point that they are different markets, but I'll be moving on from this one.  No one in Canada is making that particular argument, and I don't think either one of us will be changing the other's opinion on this point.

 

 

I would 100% support a worldwide ban on handguns and ammunition.  But as long as you jokers make buying guns easier than alcohol, there is no point banning them here.

Primary and secondary markets don’t have to be the same market to have impacts on one another! 
 

And I’m sure most people aren’t making economic arguments for this, they don’t do it here or anywhere else that I know of, but to anybody who has spent time in formal economic training this is abundantly clear.

 

If you support a ban on handguns, why does the ability of people to break the law and illegally acquire them render it pointless to do so? I mean, what laws do we have that are never able to be broken?

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Primary and secondary markets don’t have to be the same market to have impacts on one another! 
 

And I’m sure most people aren’t making economic arguments for this, they don’t do it here or anywhere else that I know of, but to anybody who has spent time in formal economic training this is abundantly clear.

 

I'm moving on from this.  I have formal economics training as well.

 

2 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

If you support a ban on handguns, why does the ability of people to break the law and illegally acquire them render it pointless to do so? I mean, what laws do we have that are never able to be broken?

The problem is criminals having access to guns.  No one should care if someone takes his gun to a shooting range to fire off a few shots.  I would be more than willing to close down gun shooting ranges in Canada if I believed it would keep guns out of criminal's hands.  I don't.

 

Banning all handguns/ammunition globally would cut off the supply of guns to criminals. 

All banning handguns in Canada does is cut of a small potential source of guns.  It does nothing to solve the problem.

I'll put it another way, If the US were to ban all handguns, I would support Canada doing the same thing.

You are our problem. [Not you specifically, your country.]

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

The problem is criminals having access to guns.  No one should care if someone takes his gun to a shooting range to fire off a few shots.  I would be more than willing to close down gun shooting ranges in Canada if I believed it would keep guns out of criminal's hands.  I don't.

By YOUR OWN CLAIM 20% of these crimes happen with domestic guns. Why is doing. I thing to reduce those things a remotely sensible idea? The presumption here is that all of those people who are buying domestic guns would shift to foreign guns, and that is simply false. Were that true gun manufacturers wouldn’t even bother with the process of making them in your domestic market.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

If you just legalize guns the 80% wouldn’t be illegal anymore making them no longer a problem

[Guest]

Person: I want to keep guns out of criminal’s hands

 

Other person: here is something that takes guns out of the hands who commit 20% of the crimes

 

Person: Literally does nothing for the other 80%

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

In literally any other case where you could reduce [bad thing] by 10-20% that would be absolutely phenomenal 

 

if the us for example could reduce traffic deaths by 20% that’s like 10k people a year. That’s not nothing at all!

[Xbob42]

Anything that gets pissy gun owners to write paragraphs like I do is music to my ears.

[chakoo]

I've mention this in past threads but Toronto not that long ago had an incident where a guy was going around killing people in the city with a handgun. He killed two people on two seperate days and would have killed more if for not finally being found. When they did and checked his house he had a bunch of LEGALLY PURCHASED FIREARMS in his house.

 

So this notion that you can't do anything to chip away at an actual issue because it does not solve the majority can go fuck right off. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, chakoo said:

So this notion that you can't do anything to chip away at an actual issue because it does not solve the majority can go fuck right off. 

100%. A possible 20% reduction in any sort of violent crime is welcome, and the only cost here is the feelings of people who think they should personally own killing machines in 2022.

[Jason]

55 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

and the only cost here is the feelings of people who think they should personally own killing machines in 2022

 

This is an awesome argument for banning cars.

[SaysWho?]

[AbsolutSurgen]

From the Toronto Star of all places...

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

13 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

From the Toronto Star of all places...

So the problem is American Republicans. Seems obvious. 

[CitizenVectron]

11 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So the problem is American Republicans. Seems obvious. 

 

No the problem is Trudeau, doofus

[DPCyric]

On 6/2/2022 at 2:12 PM, AbsolutSurgen said:

Complete coincidence that they announced this  days after shootings in the US and 2 days before a 50bps hike in interest rates.

 

For me it was Tuesday anytime they would announce it would be days after shootings in the US 

[BloodyHell]

On 11/1/2022 at 10:45 AM, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So the problem is American Republicans. Seems obvious. 

The problem is that Canadian illegal weapons aren't coming from Canada, and multiple police chiefs have confirmed this. 

Stats show Canadian gun owners are 3x less likely to commit violent crime than non-gun owning Canadians, and the vast majority of illegal guns (almost all of them that can be traced) can be traced directly to the US. 

 

The problem is that there is zero reason for the freeze.