Canadian gov. introduces bill banning sale of handguns (and imports), plans buy-back assault weapons, caps long-gun magazine size at 5 rounds

[CitizenVectron]

Government tables bill to cap handguns, pledges to buy back assault weapons | CBC News

WWW.CBC.CA

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New gun control legislation the government tabled today includes a national freeze on the sale, importation and transfer of handguns in Canada — the government's most ambitious attempt yet to restrict access to firearms in this country.

 

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New gun control legislation the federal government tabled today includes a national freeze on the purchase, sale, importation and transfer of handguns in Canada.

The government also is pledging to start buying back thousands of banned assault weapons before the end of the year.

 

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"We recognize that the vast majority of gun owners use them safely, and in accordance with the law," Trudeau said.

"But other than using firearms for sport shooting and for hunting, there is no reason anyone in Canada should need guns in their everyday lives."

 

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Mendicino confirmed that the government would be proceeding with a mandatory buyback program for the over 1,500 assault-style weapons the government banned two years ago — including the AR-15. 

 

So not a ban on existing ownership, but a ban on new sales altogether. I expect they will introduce a buy-back program for handguns in the future as well.

 

Details:

• Ban on new sale of hand guns, as well as imports
• Bans magazines for long-guns greater than 5 rounds
• Increases maximum penalty for illegal ownership of weapons from 10 years to 14 years
• Removal of firearm license for anyone involved with domestic assault or criminal harassment
• Red flag list of people deemed at-risk of using a gun on others or themselves, mandating they turn over weapons to the government

[chakoo]

[Brick]

My gun owning friend is not happy about this. 

[silentbob]

4 minutes ago, Brick said:

My gun owning friend is not happy about this. 

 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

You'll never be able to defend yourself from an American now!

[chakoo]

18 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said:

You'll never be able to defend yourself from an American now!

Nah acts of kindness seems to cause them to shit bricks

 

(it's in reference to this https://nationalpost.com/news/walt-wawra

 

 

-edit-

Also canada has animal backup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMdhAFPWzFw

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Just now, chakoo said:

Nah acts of kindness seems to cause them to shit bricks

 

(it's in reference to this https://nationalpost.com/news/walt-wawra)

 

Reminds me of some guy who checked into the hotel and wanted to walk around town. He asked, "Is it safe to walk around here? Normally back home I'd have my gun..." and this guy is like 6'5" huge dude. I think he'll be ok without his gun.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Complete coincidence that they announced this  days after shootings in the US and 2 days before a 50bps hike in interest rates.

[CitizenVectron]

31 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Complete coincidence that they announced this  days after shootings in the US and 2 days before a 50bps hike in interest rates.

 

That's a horrible take. 

1. Of course they introduced this days after mass killings. What is your point? "FdR oNlY dEcLaReD wAr On ThE jApAnEse AfTeR pEaRl HaRbOuR hOw OdD"
2. You are getting into conspiratorial range with your second point

[Jason]

How long until Canadian truckers start protesting about their 2A rights? 

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

That's a horrible take. 

1. Of course they introduced this days after mass killings. What is your point? "FdR oNlY dEcLaReD wAr On ThE jApAnEse AfTeR pEaRl HaRbOuR hOw OdD"
2. You are getting into conspiratorial range with your second point

1)  Because those mass killings didn't happen in Canada.  They happened in a country that has very different gun laws than Canada.  Mass killings are exceedingly rare in Canada, and typically don't involve legally obtained hand guns.

2)  You don't believe that politicians time their news to distract from "bad news"?

[CitizenVectron]

9 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

1)  Because those mass killings didn't happen in Canada.  They happened in a country that has very different gun laws than Canada.  Mass killings are exceedingly rare in Canada, and typically don't involve legally obtained hand guns.

2)  You don't believe that politicians time their news to distract from "bad news"?

 

The government doesn't choose rates in Canada, and everyone has known it's coming after the US made the same decision last month. Moreover...are you suggesting that the government not announce new gun control policies if they know bad news is coming, so as to avoid the perception of eating the media cycle? 

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

The government doesn't choose rates in Canada, and everyone has known it's coming after the US made the same decision last month. Moreover...are you suggesting that the government not announce new gun control policies if they know bad news is coming, so as to avoid the perception of eating the media cycle? 

I am suggesting that Governments frequently announce news to distract the media from other news.  Companies do this too.  I am suggesting that based on how poorly planned this announcement was (and lacking in detail), that it was rushed.

[Guest]

It’s politically opportunistic when people are most upset over a failure of laws, but that is just good politics.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

It’s politically opportunistic when people are most upset over a failure of laws, but that is just good politics.

 

"Never let a good crisis go to waste!"

[AbsolutSurgen]

4 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

It’s politically opportunistic when people are most upset over a failure of laws, but that is just good politics.

True, Justin Trudeau is fantastic at good politics.

[CitizenVectron]

I'm not sure what your alternative is to a situation. If something bad happens...should politicians not respond with ideas to prevent/fix them? Or are you just mad that Canadians are happy at the proposals, and want him to go even further? I am 90% confident he will propose a total ban on handguns (and mandatory buy back) by 2025, or as part of the 2025 election campaign.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

40 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

"Never let a good crisis go to waste!"

The only time the US has a responsive and functional government is during a crisis. 

[Jason]

19 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The only time the US has a responsive and functional government is during a crisis. 

 

And our government clearly doesn't think constant mass shootings is a crisis.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

And our government clearly doesn't think constant mass shootings is a crisis.

If you’re not willing to accept mass death in every facet of your life, leave 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

If you’re not willing to accept mass death in every facet of your life, leave 

 

But make sure to keep filing your taxes every year even though you no longer live here. And if you renounce your citizenship we'll charge you exit taxes and probably bar you from ever coming back to visit.

[chakoo]

5 hours ago, Jason said:

 

But make sure to keep filing your taxes every year even though you no longer live here. And if you renounce your citizenship we'll charge you exit taxes and probably bar you from ever coming back to visit.

 

As someone who has spent half my life and all of my adult life outside the US this is true and such bullshit. -.-

[AbsolutSurgen]

17 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

I'm not sure what your alternative is to a situation. If something bad happens...should politicians not respond with ideas to prevent/fix them? Or are you just mad that Canadians are happy at the proposals, and want him to go even further? I am 90% confident he will propose a total ban on handguns (and mandatory buy back) by 2025, or as part of the 2025 election campaign.

Again.  Nothing bad happened in Canada.  Just like when there was a Supreme Court decision leak in the US a while back, nothing happened to attack abortion rights in Canada.

 

Canada's homicide rate is about 1/3 of the US.  What happens there is not indicative of what happens here.

 

There aren't good statistics on the source of guns in crime, but when the Toronto Police Service  looked at the source of guns used in crime, more than 80% did not originate from sales within Canada.

 

These laws would not have prevented the largest "massacres" in Canada (by # of deaths) over the last 30 or so years:

2020 Nova Scotia Attacks (22 dead) -- Killer had numerous illegally obtained weapons from the US

1989 Ecole Polytechnique Massacre (15 dead) -- Killer used a rifle that is perfectly legal under the current proposed legislation

2018 Toronto Van Attack (11 dead) -- killer used a van to run people over

 

[CitizenVectron]

Over 80% of cancer is non-cigarette-related, but we still try to reduce cigarette use.

[AbsolutSurgen]

That's the point, the source of guns used in crime is overwhelming from the US.  These actions are all for show, and won't actually do anything.  

[CitizenVectron]

15 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That's the point, the source of guns used in crime is overwhelming from the US.  These actions are all for show, and won't actually do anything.  

 

"If we can't fix the entire problem at once, then there is no point in making incremental improvements."

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That's the point, the source of guns used in crime is overwhelming from the US.  These actions are all for show, and won't actually do anything.  

Are you opposed to the proposed laws?

[CitizenVectron]

Also I am 100% of the belief that this proposal doesn't go far enough; I'd like to see a total ban on handguns and a mandatory buyback. I'd go so far as to say all guns should be banned with the possible exception of .22 rifles for farm owners, and possibly bolt-action/single-shot hunting long-guns.

 

Like, yeah, Canada is well off compared to the US, but we're also horrible compared to most of the developed world, in terms of gun violence.

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Are you opposed to the proposed laws?

Yes.  I support banning handguns if it will meaningfully reduce deaths in Canada.  I don't believe it will, so I don't.

In general, I don't support any restrictions on people that don't have a clearly articulated/demonstrable "public good".

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

In general, I don't support any restrictions on people that don't have a clearly articulated/demonstrable "public good".

bro

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

bro

Canada is flooded with smuggled handguns from the US.  Banning Canadians from owning them won't change that.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Yes.  I support banning handguns if it will meaningfully reduce deaths in Canada.  I don't believe it will, so I don't.

In general, I don't support any restrictions on people that don't have a clearly articulated/demonstrable "public good".

By your own claim, something in the range of 20% of gun crime is affected by the laws within Canada. There are also non-crimes (suicide being the most prominent) for which a reduction in legally purchased firearms would be a benefit.

 

There are also good economic reasons why reducing legal guns is helpful. It makes illegal guns more expensive, which reduces demand.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 hour ago, sblfilms said:

By your own claim, something in the range of 20% of gun crime is affected by the laws within Canada. There are also non-crimes (suicide being the most prominent) for which a reduction in legally purchased firearms would be a benefit.

 

There are also good economic reasons why reducing legal guns is helpful. It makes illegal guns more expensive, which reduces demand.

I'll start this off with the caveat -- there are no great stats on how guns are used in crimes in Canada.  Journalists have expressed frustration with this.  So I'm going to take some liberty with some of the numbers for illustrative purposes.

 

1)  Toronto Police Services suggested that 80% of guns they had traced as part of the study originated in the US.  They didn't break-down the remaining 20% for how many were legally obtained vs. illegally obtained in Canada.  Given that criminals seem to either prefer illegal guns, or just plain find them easier to obtain, my POV is that if you cut off the supply of domestic guns, the people that want those guns will just get US based guns instead.

 

2)  If you talk about Homicide specifically.  There are some stats from Statscan.

In 2020, there were 743 homicides in Canada, 277 which were committed with a gun (of which 49% were from a handgun).  So a total of 136.  So if 20% were made with legally owned handguns -- that's 27 -- or about 3.6% of total homicides.  How many of those people would be saved?  Probably not all (or most) of them.  They killer could likely get their hands on an illegal gun, a nonrestricted rifle/shotgun, or a knife.

This data is VERY different than the US, where murders with handguns is ~45% of the total (vs. the 18%) in Canada.  The homicide rate from handguns in the US is ~7x that of Canada.

 

3) Suicide

Data is a little more out of date here, last info I am aware of from Statscan on suicide was published 10 years ago, and covered 10-years prior.

About 4,000 people commit suicide each year in Canada, but only ~16% use a firearm. (I have seen no breakdown on a split between handguns vs. rifles).

This is vastly different than the US, where ~50% use a firearm.  Since there are about 45,000 suicides per year in the US, the overall suicide rate seems to be fairly similar in the 2 countries.  I just don't understand the how this law would materially impact suicide in Canada.

 

To your point on banning handguns making illegal guns more expensive?  Maybe.  But again, most of Canada's illegal handguns come over the border from your country (where it is easy to get one), and it is relatively easy to get over the border.   There is a virtually unlimited supply of handguns a few hours drive from most Canadian cities. 

[Guest]

In all honesty, you really didn’t make a single point in your three bullet points besides what I’ll address below. You just described numbers!
 

3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

To your point on banning handguns making illegal guns more expensive?  Maybe.  But again, most of Canada's illegal handguns come over the border from your country (where it is easy to get one), and it is relatively easy to get over the border.   There is a virtually unlimited supply of handguns a few hours drive from most Canadian cities. 

It isn’t a maybe, it is very basic economics. The availability of domestic guns drives down the price of imported guns. 

 

I am also a bit confused by the notion that adding hours of drive time doesn’t materially impact an individuals ability and desire to secure a weapon.

 

Decreasing access to domestic guns is a positive if your goal is reduction in gun deaths. How positive is the only question.

[silentbob]

Don’t even need to drive over to get a hand gun as they’re being delivered by drones. Police just got lucky catching one that got caught in a tree near the Niagara Falls boarder

Drone carrying guns into Canada from US intercepted after crashing into tree | Canada | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Police in Port Lambton, Ontario, called after device carrying shopping bag of guns flew into tree and operator fled in vehicle