Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 For decades, the notion that the US would defend Taiwan militarily in the event of an attack from Beijing was very much a "grey area" in terms of American foreign/military policy. Biden just dispelled that ambiguity completely and while I have little doubt that the Chinese government already assumed that this was the case, to have it right out there in the open definitely cannot be pleasing them at all. Biden vows to defend Taiwan in apparent US policy shift WWW.BBC.COM The US leader warned China against invading the island, likening such a move to Russia's war in Ukraine. Quote US President Joe Biden has warned China is "flirting with danger" over Taiwan, and vowed to intervene militarily to protect the island if it is attacked. Speaking in Japan, he appeared to contradict long-standing US policy in the region, although the White House insisted there had been no departure. Mr Biden drew a parallel between Taiwan and Russia's invasion of Ukraine, prompting an angry rebuke from Beijing. He is on his first tour of Asia as US president, visiting regional allies. Mr Biden prefaced his remarks saying US policy toward Taiwan "has not changed". But his comments in Tokyo are the second time in recent months he has unequivocally stated the US would defend Taiwan if China attacked, in what has been seen as a change in tone. The US has previously been vague on what it would do in such a situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 It seems like the reality of modern warfare would make it impossible for China to take Taiwan by force (assuming U.S. aid) short of razing it to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 We could also just onshore chip manufacturing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 29 minutes ago, Anathema- said: It seems like the reality of modern warfare would make it impossible for China to take Taiwan by force (assuming U.S. aid) short of razing it to the ground. It would take the Navy weeks/months to get anywhere near Taiwan without risking the carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 20 minutes ago, sblfilms said: We could also just onshore chip manufacturing Yes. But we should also pledge to defend our allies in the region. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 Imagine if as a species we could actually evolve beyond petty geopolitical issues such as these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: Yes. But we should also pledge to defend our allies in the region. Why are they our allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Why are they our allies? The inertia of history. And chips. And democracy bros, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Why are they our allies? Biggest reason? They oppose China, who is our largest adversary in the region. Also they are not dirty communists, like mainland China! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: The inertia of history. And chips. And democracy bros, I guess. Democracy is a pretty new reason to support both Taiwan and South Korea, as both of those countries were NOT really democracies up until a few decades ago. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 We’re shifting to democracy is bad actually anyway tho. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 23, 2022 Author Share Posted May 23, 2022 Just now, mclumber1 said: Democracy is a pretty new reason to support both Taiwan and South Korea, as both of those countries were NOT really democracies up until a few decades ago. They weren't EVEN CLOSE to being democracies until the 1980s. The RoK was ruled by an ESPECIALLY notorious right-wing dictatorship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: Biggest reason? They oppose China, who is our largest adversary in the region. Also they are not dirty communists, like mainland China! I don’t know that not wanting to be annexed is really opposition in any meaningful sense. Taiwan is not a counterweight for the US against China, we are the counterweight for them. We are largely allied with Taiwan for economic reasons and we could and should change the economic reality to lessen our entanglements. If we want to support other nations for humanitarian or “liberty” reasons, let’s have that debate. But being forced into military support of another nation because we need things they make is so terribly dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: I don’t know that not wanting to be annexed is really opposition in any meaningful sense. Taiwan is not a counterweight for the US against China, we are the counterweight for them. We are largely allied with Taiwan for economic reasons and we could and should change the economic reality to lessen our entanglements. If we want to support other nations for humanitarian or “liberty” reasons, let’s have that debate. But being forced into military support of another nation because we need things they make is so terribly dumb. Bail on Taiwan and our other pacific allies will get nervous, pushing them to come to terms with China. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, sblfilms said: I don’t know that not wanting to be annexed is really opposition in any meaningful sense. Taiwan is not a counterweight for the US against China, we are the counterweight for them. We are largely allied with Taiwan for economic reasons and we could and should change the economic reality to lessen our entanglements. If we want to support other nations for humanitarian or “liberty” reasons, let’s have that debate. But being forced into military support of another nation because we need things they make is so terribly dumb. It's more preventing them from getting a hold of TSMC I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Bail on Taiwan and our other pacific allies will get nervous, pushing them to come to terms with China. They probably should TBH. We are too politocally unstable to rely on. Though I guess Trumpism is firmly anti-China so maybe it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: We could also just onshore chip manufacturing I believe we are with that Intel plant being built in Ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 But why say it now? Why not leave the option open rather than confirm? This makes me a bit more concerned that planned action by China is close at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 16 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said: But why say it now? Why not leave the option open rather than confirm? This makes me a bit more concerned that planned action by China is close at hand. It's either they are planning on going in or Biden is stating it as a way of showing US power still matters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said: But why say it now? Why not leave the option open rather than confirm? This makes me a bit more concerned that planned action by China is close at hand. Probably to underscore the commitment in light of the situation in Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, CayceG said: Probably to underscore the commitment in light of the situation in Ukraine. I hear that, but I feel like, even on a tour of Asia, that the POTUS should say something like, "We will rigorously defend all allies here and aboard" and leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 34 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said: I hear that, but I feel like, even on a tour of Asia, that the POTUS should say something like, "We will rigorously defend all allies here and aboard" and leave it at that. Biden has that gaffe machine mouth tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 China has historically been isolationist to a fault. It's status as empire was as a system of tributary vassals. One (unfortunate) learning for me from the Uyghur plight is that people don't consider them 'chinese' for being muslm victims I guess. More to the point, 'China' isn't a monolithic monoculture that many see them as. Most people probably couldn't tell you the two ethnicites that promote the Han class. That and you've got all sorts to rockets aimed at them from all sides with not a friend in sight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-23/biden-says-us-military-will-defend-taiwan-from-any-china-attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted May 23, 2022 Share Posted May 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Jason said: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-23/biden-says-us-military-will-defend-taiwan-from-any-china-attack This shit has to stop, Biden is President or he isn't. 6 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said: But why say it now? Why not leave the option open rather than confirm? This makes me a bit more concerned that planned action by China is close at hand. They're getting close to the ability to do it but US and Pacific allies are waking up and arming. So there is a limited window where they do it and keep allied navies away, once that window closes it gets significantly harder again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 24, 2022 Author Share Posted May 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: This shit has to stop, Biden is President or he isn't. Biden’s Taiwan vow creates confusion not clarity – and raises China tensions | Joe Biden | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM President’s blunt response appears to undercut US ‘strategic ambiguity’ on Taiwan as White House forced to walk back remarks Quote After Biden made the remark at a joint press conference on Monday with the Japanese prime minister, Fumio Kishida, an aide said the president’s statement represented no change in the longstanding American stance to the island. A source told CNN that Biden meant providing weapons, not deploying boots on the ground. This TOTALLY instills a sense of confidence in this administration's leadership from our allies. Totally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Bidet’s aids need to make sure he gets more nap time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Just now, Mr.Vic20 said: Bidet’s aids need to make sure he gets more nap time! Freudian slip? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Jason said: Freudian slip? If Freud invented the iPad then yes. Stupid iPad… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted May 24, 2022 Share Posted May 24, 2022 Sure am glad my choices last election and this next election will be between two men who have reached the age of the average lifespan of an American man or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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